Talk:1958 FIFA World Cup

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Requested move

Football World Cup 1958 → 1958 FIFA World Cup – following the consensus of naming the World Cup articles as FIFA World Cup in Wikipedia, and consistency of naming the major international football tournaments.

Discuss here: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football/Competitions#Requested move of Football World Cup articles. --Pkchan 10:41, 4 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Moved per consensus. --Pkchan 13:01, 10 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The use of Goal average in this tournament

FIFA had not decided how goal average would be used in this tournament. This report, posted on june 12 was halfway through the group stages.

From a report in The Times, Friday, Jun 13, 1958, pg. 15

Stockholm June 12

GOAL AVERAGE MAY DECIDE WORLD CUP

... The tables now take on new significane because in the last day or two the F.I.F.A. organizing committee have apparently decided, though it has not been announced, that goal average shall play a bigger part than originally intended and is now of primary importance after the points awarded. ... [I]f Brazil and Russia draw and England win, these three would have four points each and goal averages would play thier part. A replay will only be neccesary if goal averages are equal.

From a report in The Times, Saturday, Jun 14, 1958, pg. 10

Stockholm June 13

GLOOMY WORLD CUP TEAM NEWS

... There seems to have been a muddle over the various statements on goal average. Sir Stanley Rous, speaking at longe[sic] range to me this morning, said that the British text was now the one chosen and that a play-off between sides of equal points would have priority over actual goal average which would count only if the play-were indecisive--or words to that effect.

From a report in The Times, Tuesday, Jun 17, 1958, pg. 3

THREE PLAY-OFFS IN THE WORLD CUP

EXTRA TIME ALLOWED

All three play-offs to-day in the World Cup Association Football competition will be begun at 7 p.m. (B.S.T.) ... Extra time will be played, if necessary and should the teams still be level, the goal average of their three previous group matches will count. If these are identical for both countries a draw by lot would decide the qualifier.

--Reuter

So as you see there was some confusion about how goal average would be used. I can't find any reference as to why France were placed above Yugoslavia in the group, but it seems logical that as both teams had qualified then a play-off was unecessary. Perhaps they drew lots, perhaps it was because they won 2 games while Yugoslavia won 1 and dreew 2. But it's probably more likely that they simply used goal average. This was basically what I had written before, but I had forgotten the details and got confused. Jooler 11:08, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Assuming the above to be correct then as goal average was only of consequence with regarding France Yugoslava, I decided to leave it out. Also all of the tables that accompany the above reports, and indeed FIFAs own tables here - http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com/06/en/p/pwc/r/1958.html do not show GAv, but I don't care if you put it in. However goal difference should definitely not be put in. Jooler 11:11, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mmm. As far as I have understood, goal average has been used. They say that play-offs have the priority, but after extra-time, if still level, GAv is used. So we should put it in. And, IMO, it is likely that it has been used to determine who placed 1st between France and Yugoslavia. The criteria were, in order of priority:

1. Play-Offs

2. Goal Average

3. Drawing Lots

I think that it would be a good assumption to say that when no play-off has been played, then the 2nd criterion has been used. --Calippo 12:18, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As you please. I seem to remember that I started to add goal average to one of the tournaments and then decided not to as I was unsure of the situatiohn of having infinite goal average. Indeed I've read a contempary report in the times (probably from 1962) which says the FIFA were unsure of whether a team with goals for/against of 1:1 should be placed above or below a team with a ratio of 0:0. Apologies for my mistake earlier, a red mist came down when I saw goal difference. Jooler 13:34, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah I know why I didn't include GAv now. I don't really like seeing the infinity sign in there. If sone team had a for/against of 5:0 and another had 4:0 they'd both have infinite goal average. Jooler 15:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

France finished above Yugoslavia on goal average. The goal average was used to determined the first and second place, third and fourth place, while the second place and third place were determined by play-off, and if play-off after 120 minutes was still draw, also goal average was used.

Metufit (talk) 08:37, 2 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Altafini

Josè Altafini used the nickname "Mazzola" when in Brazil. Some sources report "Mazola", a likely portuguese mispelling of the name of the italian player Valentino Mazzola. Later he dropped the nickname and he was known simply as Altafini. Since the FIFA match report indicates him as "Josè Altafini", it's better to call him this way. --Calippo 12:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Brazilian Flag

The flag in 1958 is not the same they have today (it has been changed in 1960 and then again in 1992). --Calippo 12:46, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is true, however I did a web search to find what the flag was in the two previous incarnations, and all I could find were sites in Portugese. Do you know of any sites which discribe the changes in the flag exactly, if so I can make up the two intermediate flags. -- Deville (Talk) 02:39, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

To follow up, they use the current flag on the Portugese side as well, and as far as I can tell noone has made the flags for the Portugese WP either. -- Deville (Talk) 02:49, 9 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fair use rationale for Image:1958 Football World Cup poster.jpg

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BetacommandBot (talk) 04:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Peter McParland

The above is credited with 5 goals; yet according to the article NI only scored 4 goals in the whole competition. Lucian Sunday (talk) 18:19, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I've corrected it now. – Pee Jay 19:00, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Peejay - I've looked agaon NI did score 5 (all PMCP) - It is the group table GF that is wrong. Lucian Sunday (talk) 06:56, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

NO even that was not wrong - there was an extra play off game that I completely missed...I'll get my coat. Lucian Sunday (talk) 07:24, 28 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The GA for NI in Group 1 continue being wrong. Right now the table shows 3 GA for NI. However, NI got 5 GA in this Group 1, without counting the playoff game. If we counted the playoff (which we shouldn't, because the table describes points, goals, etc. for the regular round), then NI would have 6 GA. But the table must show 5. After all, the two columns GF and GA must sum up to the same value (24 in this case), but they don't. I don't know how to correct this. --Harry Foundalis (talk) 02:02, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed. S.A. Julio (talk) 02:32, 29 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

First goal v Scotland

The FIFA report shows Piantoni as scorer, but all other sources, including the website of the French Football Federation and the video footage shows the goal was scored by Raymond Kopa.

I've removed the "citation needed" tag you added. After all, you acknowledge that the official FIFA report states that Piantoni scored the goal. – Pee Jay 16:32, 7 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

did Brazil won the world cup by tossing?

i have herd a rumor that Brazil won the world cup two times by tossing... but i couldn't find any fact on it. can any body tell me the truth please:) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.21.178.242 (talk) 10:01, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The World Cup has never been decided by the toss of a coin (I assume that's what you meant by tossing, as the other meaning is quite vulgar). – Pee Jay 23:07, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Didi Best Player - Golden Ball

Didi was retroactively given the golden ball as the best player by Fifa , I Believe this should be mentioned Here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.191.4.240 (talk • contribs) 2011-10-24T00:01:58

If you have a reference, add it. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:25, 24 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Stadium table

I am dubious of the value of photos of stadiums taken decades after the World Cup, given that significant alterations will have been made in the intervening years. In any case, I don't think the extra prettiness justifies removing factual information, so I have readded it. If you can prettify the format without removing the info, fair enough. jnestorius^(talk) 10:06, 6 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

IFK Malmö Jersey

The article say: "Argentina forgot to bring their change strip, and borrowed the yellow shirt of host team IFK Malmö". This is not true, in fact, before the match and because the jerseys of both teams can confuse the TV audience, the FIFA make a toin coss, Argentina loss, so, they change his jerseys...nothing to do with they forgot their change strip (at that time, the Argentina away strip was white!!!!!) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.137.91.137 (talk) 02:12, 26 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Albert Dusch

German referee Albert Dusch is not listed in the Match Officials section, but I'm not skilled enough to add him to the list without breaking it. He is, however, mentioned in the mini match summaries for the 2 matches that he refereed. Ukdan999 (talk) 09:56, 24 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]