Talk:1895 Wilcox rebellion

Split

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Legitimacy of Hawaii: Our New Possessions

Currently I am working on a research paper in my English class, with the topic being Hawaii's entrance into the United States. I investigated the subject source in the 1895 Counter-revolution in Hawaii article, and it reads at points like a fiction. I am concerned that the work, and the article as a whole, contain inaccuracies. The main concern I wish to point to is the death toll. Whereas the Wikipedia article declares one death in the forces of the Republic of Hawaii as a whole, and several for the royalists, the Hawaiian Historical Society, on an article about Robert Wilcox, a conspirator in the rebellion, stated that only one person, C. L. Carter, died in the conflict. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.21.4.123 (talk) 23:53, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Article title move

The naming of the article as a counter-revolution holds a great deal of false narrative. The overthrow was not a revolution and this cannot really be called a counter revolution. The term hold bias toward the old narrative that has been debunked since the apology by Congress and the US president. The article is about the 1895 Wilcox rebellion and should be named such.--Mark Miller (talk) 18:43, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Please establish sources refuting the term counter-revolution and preferring "1895 Wilcox rebellion" as the common agreed upon term. Either way the existing term should be mentioned as an alternative if the article is moved. I may be leaning to support this but I need to look at and compare the sources some more. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 18:55, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

I just did above.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:09, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

But again; "A counter-revolutionary is anyone who opposes a revolution, particularly those who act after a revolution to try to overturn or reverse it, in full or in part." Counter-revolution.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:11, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

The overthrow cannot be established as a revolution. It was a coup.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:12, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

"A coup d'état (/ˌkuː deɪˈtɑː/  listen (help·info); French: [ku deta]), sometimes translated as "blow of state" or "hit of state", but the literal translation is "stroke of the state" – as in the swiping or stroke of a sword; plural: coups d'état, (pronounced like the singular form), also known simply as a coup (/ˌkuː/), putsch or an overthrow, is the illegal and overt seizure of a state by the military or other elites within the state apparatus.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:14, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

No you are giving me definitions not connected with the literature or historiography about the 1895 event. --KAVEBEAR (talk) 19:18, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

That is correct.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:19, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

We need the latter.--KAVEBEAR (talk) 19:21, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

No, actually we don't. The article was begun as a content fork. It is clearly using a term that is not accurate and gives multiple differing names in the lead that were moved down from their original location near the tile in the lead.--Mark Miller (talk) 19:23, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Sources

"The war of 1895 is often erroneously referred to as the “Wilcox Rebellion” because Wilcox was the most famous personality involved in it. But Wilcox was only drafted at the last minute, because Bush and Näwahï were in jail; he didn’t plan the rebellion, and he didn’t really lead it. Wilcox was famous for fleeing through the mountains when the rebellion failed. In Hawaiian, the rebellion of 1895 is sometimes called “Ke Kaua Küloko,” the Civil War."

• Silva, Noenoe K. (1998). "Kanaka Maoli Resistance to Annexation". In Dudoit, D. Mähealani (ed.). ʻÖiwi: A Native Hawaiian Journal. Vol. 1. Honolulu: Kuleana ʻÖiwi Press. pp. 40–75. ISBN 0-9668220-1-3. OCLC 402770968.

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