Talk:1894 Sasun rebellion

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 1894 Sasun rebellion article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Military history: Ottoman

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion not met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

Associated task forces:
/
	Ottoman military history task force

Former countries: Ottoman Empire

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Former countries, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of defunct states and territories (and their subdivisions). If you would like to participate, please join the project.Former countriesWikipedia:WikiProject Former countriesTemplate:WikiProject Former countriesformer country articles
	This article is supported by WikiProject Ottoman Empire (assessed as Low-importance).

Armenia Low‑importance

	1894 Sasun rebellion is within the scope of WikiProject Armenia, an attempt to improve and better organize information in articles related or pertaining to Armenia and Armenians. If you would like to contribute or collaborate, you could edit the article attached to this page or visit the project page for further information.ArmeniaWikipedia:WikiProject ArmeniaTemplate:WikiProject ArmeniaArmenian articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Turkey Low‑importance

	Turkey portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Name

"Sasun Resistance" -Llc 1 result (but 1894 "Sasun Resistance" -Llc 0)
1894 "Resistance of Sasun" -Llc 1 result
1894 "Sasun Rebellion" -Llc 8 results ("Sasun Rebellion" -Llc 22 results, but including other Sasun rebellions)
1894 "Rebellion of Sasun" -Llc 1 result
1894 "Sasun Revolt" -Llc 3 results
1894 "Revolt at Sasun" -Llc 1 result
1894 "Sasun Uprising" -Llc 10 results

Takabeg (talk) 12:37, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

1894 "Sassoun resistance" -Llc 1 result
1894 "Sassoun uprising" -Llc 4 results
1894 "Sassoun rebellion" -Llc 2 results
1894 "Resistance at Sassoun" -Llc 1 result

Takabeg (talk) 12:42, 8 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For articles dealing with this period, I don't think we should not get caught within the trap of relying on the most common usage. Since the 1980s, ideologically driven works produced in Turkey have consistently put forward the view that the Armenians rose in rebellion in places like Zeitun, Sasun, Urfa and Van because they wanted to establish an Armenian state. It's not like in the case of, say, the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, which was the culmination of an act of self-defense but which has gained wide currency in scholarly works. Since most reputable scholars have challenged this view and acknowledged that the Armenians were acting against the depredations of their Kurdish neighbors or Turkish aghas, the article's title should accurately reflect what took place. Otherwise, the title is simply misleading for readers.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 16:57, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'll cancel the request to move, because this episode was known as the Sassoun massacre and/or Sasun massacre. But we cannot say that the Sassoun Resistance and/or Sasun Resistance are common name. If you can add information of not only combat but also massacre, we can change Sasun Resistance (1894) to Sassoun massacre (1894).

Takabeg (talk) 16:57, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Adding info testifying to the fact that it was a massacre, here: [1], p. 5, and here: https://www.academia.edu/44661100/The_Complete_Ruin_of_a_District_The_Sasun_Massacre_of_1894. 37.252.91.59 (talk) 09:00, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page not moved. Consider re-proposal of 'Sasun massacre'. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 21:29, 26 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sasun Resistance (1894) → Sasun Uprising (1894) – per WP:COMMONNAME

First of all, it's clear that the Sasun Resistance (and Sassoun Resistnace, Resistance of Sasun, Resistance at Sasun etc. (1894 "Sasun Resistance" -Llc 0, 1894 "Resistance of Sasun" -Llc 0, 1894 "Sassoun resistance" -Llc 1, 1894 "Resistance at Sassoun" -Llc 1, "Sason Resistance" -Llc 1) is not common name of this rebellion/resistance. And this name is based on the POV of "Armenians of Sasun (Sassoun)". At the same time, Sasun Rebellion (and Rebellion of Sasun, Rebellion at Sassoun) is based on the POV of the "government of the Ottoman Empire". As long as we understand, uprising is less-POV term than rebellion. And the Sasun Uprising (1894) is most "common" name of this affair. Takabeg (talk) 03:57, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I want to cancel this request. Sasun Resistance is not common name of this episode. This is known with the name of Sassoun massacre. Thank you. Takabeg (talk) 16:59, 21 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Shall we move the page to Sasun massacre then, or Sasun Massacre? -GTBacchus^(talk) 01:57, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As long as I understand, Sasun massacre is more common. But at present, this article doesn't facus on massacres. Takabeg (talk) 11:48, 24 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

User:Malizengin and questionable statements

I reverted this edit[2], according to "Encyclopedia of Human Rights, Vol 1, by David Forsythe,[3];"A European investigative commission found that the Armenians were not guilty of anything but self-defense." --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:41, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

This edit is very badly written, but factually quite correct. An example on where more information can be found on this subject is the book 'Sasun' by Justin McCarthy written in 2010. --80.114.182.138 (talk) 15:57, 6 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

==

bismarck was no longer kanzler in 1894, bismarck was removed in 1890, reference to bismarck's germany should be corrected — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.183.202.53 (talk) 17:59, 2 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Recent research suggests massacre not rebellion

A few recent scholars suggested that the incident was not a rebellion but a social protest that escalated into a government-instigated massacre. See Mehmet Polatel, "The Complete Ruin of a District: The Sasun Massacre of 1894", in Yaşar Tolga Cora, Dzovinar Derderian and Ali Sipahi, eds., The Ottoman East in the Nineteenth Century Societies, Identities and Politics; and Tigran Martirosyan, "The 1894 Sasun Massacre: Revisiting the Number of Victims", Études arméniennes contemporaines, 14 | 2022, mis en ligne le 16 janvier 2023. 73.173.64.115 (talk) 17:04, 2 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]