Talk:1880–81 Scottish Cup

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Airdrie Bluebell

I'm not sure they ever existed. I cannot find ANY record for them, other than this Scottish Cup entry. The yearbook for 1881-82 says they were dissolved before the first round, but the SFA minutes are not online, there is no other record of the club in any of the yearbooks, there is nothing in any of the newspapers, and there is no record of an entry to the Lanarkshire Cup.

But the SFA minutes in 1879–80 are almost random in what they call Plains Blue Bell; including Airdrie Blue Bells and Blue Bells (Airdrie).

So is this a phantom entry? Someone at the SFA put two Blue Bells into the hat by mistake, thinking Airdrie and Plains were separate sides? Unless there was a schism, it would be bizarre for a side in Airdrie to take such a distinctive name when a team from a neighbouring village had it. In Vitrio (talk) 16:08, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It is entirely possible given the erroneous inclusion of the non-existent Largs in 1881–82. We would need a source to confirm it though, otherwise it would be WP:OR. Do the minute books record every club accepted as members for each season? If Airdrie Bluebell aren't listed in any year before then I think we could safely say they were included erroneously and point to the minute books as the source for a similarly worded note to the Largs entry. Something like "There is no record of a club named Airdrie Bluebell being accepted as a member of the Scottish Football Association. It is believed they were entered erroneously." I wouldn't mention a reason for their erroneous entry if we can't source it though. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 19:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The available minutes have new clubs admitted in 1879 and from 1881 onwards, and those removed from 1882 onwards, so annoyingly it misses both sides. (The minutes incidentally are completely silent on Largs - the results for round 1 simply do not mention the tie at all.) The August 1881 minutes do not "delete" any sides - there was a motion carried unanimously that any club with outstanding subscriptions in September was barred from the Cup, so there was no motions to expel anyone. From 1882 the SFA starts to name them in the August meeting.

However p. 2 of the Glasgow Herald of 26 August 1880 does list the new member clubs, which are (for the sake of reference) Maxwell, Pilgrims, Partick Thistle, Ingram, Cowlairs, Lancefield, Shawlands Athletic, Windsor, Rankinston (Mountaineers), Abercorn, Johnstone, Johnstone Rovers, St Mirren, Victoria (Helensburgh), Airdriehill, Lanark (the original), Tollcross, Uddingston, Bridge of Allan, Dunkeld, 5th KRV, Oakbank of Greenock, Campsie Athletic, Central, Royal Albert, Coylton Coila, and the first Pollok. It then prints the draw showing Airdriehill v Airdrie Blue Bell as well as the Plains Blue Bell tie.

I think it's pointing to a ghost club. In Vitrio (talk) 20:58, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I think you are right. I would say those two sources (minutes and the Herald) are enough to say there's no record of the club joining. Stevie fae Scotland (talk) 08:23, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]