Talk:1874 FA Cup final

Football: England / Season Low‑importance

	Association football portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FootballWikipedia:WikiProject FootballTemplate:WikiProject Footballfootball articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	English football portal This article is supported by the English football task force (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the season article task force.

England Low‑importance

	England portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject England, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of England on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EnglandWikipedia:WikiProject EnglandTemplate:WikiProject EnglandEngland-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

University of Oxford Low‑importance

	University of Oxford portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject University of Oxford, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the University of Oxford on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.University of OxfordWikipedia:WikiProject University of OxfordTemplate:WikiProject University of OxfordUniversity of Oxford articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

1874 FA Cup final has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
December 20, 2009	Good article nominee	Listed

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:1874 FA Cup Final/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hi, I am the reviewer Sarastro1 (talk) 00:24, 20 December 2009 (UTC).[reply]

The article seems to meet most of the GA criteria.

Lead

"Both finalists had previously reached the final but been defeated by Wanderers, the Engineers in 1872 and Oxford in 1873" seems a little clumsy. It uses "finalists" and "finals" very close together and it could be a little confusing as to who was defeated by whom.
"Oxford had defeated two-time former winners Wanderers in the quarter-finals" seems too detailed for the lead unless you add it to the sentence about both finalists being defeated previously.
"Their opponents, who had spent two weeks training for the match, an innovative concept at the time, were repeatedly thwarted by Charles Nepean, the Oxford goalkeeper and unable to score any goals in reply." Needs a comma after goalkeeper but may be better to use fewer commas in the sentence.

Route to the final

The use of the nickname "Sappers" may be confusing.
"the first time a team had ever scored as many as seven goals in an FA Cup match". Is there a single reference you could use for this instead of three results sections? If not, not a big problem.
- I have not found a source that specifically states this fact, so using all three links is needed
Would it be better to move the sentence about both teams being beaten finalists to after the sentence where Wanderers were defeated?
The scores in previous finals might add detail.
- Seems unnecessary detail to me

Fair enough!--Sarastro1 (talk) 21:43, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You give one date (Jan 28) and no others: it may be better to give all the dates or none, particularly as it says "a month later" after the Jan 28 game, which seems imprecise.
I'm aware this may not be possible, but some brief context for the teams may help here, for example who they were or where they came from. Some contemporary reaction might help to give context as well, such as what was the reaction to the Wanderers' defeat, or how popular were the games/teams. Which team was the favourite before the game?
- The article states where the teams came from (Oxford and Chatham), that the RE represented a British army regiment, and talks a bit about the players who were (and weren't) selected. I don't have much beyond that. Sources do not record who the favourites were, or the public reaction. In the early days of football, press coverage was very scarce and only reported the events of the match itself
An explanation of The Oval being used, compared to Wembley today, and its main use as a cricket ground may provide context, either for this section or for the match section.

Match

"Military team" may be confusing if someone doesn't know that the Engineers were a military team.
"Unbeknownst" does not seem a suitable word to use in this article: it seems a little archaic.
Is the reference for teams needing to appeal a goal included in with the reference for no-one knowing why the players didn't appeal?
- Yes. Page can be scanned and photobucketed if required

No need for that. Maybe if someone was very pedantic, they might want both sentences referenced, but I'm OK with it.--Sarastro1 (talk) 21:43, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"Sappers" again. It needs explaining, at least.
"Making up for defeat." Is this from a book? It needs clarifying who believed it made up for the defeat.
The link to the match report gives a few details from the match which are not in the article, including context.
- The reliability of the info on that site is questionable (for example, they have the score of the 1873 final wrong!) so I have removed it. It is also not considered a reliable source by the WP:FOOTY project. I have added a bit more in from the book, however.

That's fine. If it's unreliable, best not to list it.--Sarastro1 (talk) 21:43, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Attendance: The same link gives the attendance at 2,000 but The Times report which is on the same page gives the attendance at 5,000. Do we know which is correct? Was this a good attendance?
- All other sources list 2,000, including other contemporary newspapers, so I would presume this was correct. The Times' correspondent was probably just taking a guess. The attendance was comparable with the previous two finals. At the time attendances were not usually recorded, so we have nothing else to compare against.

OK, but I like your comparison to previous final as it gives context.--Sarastro1 (talk) 21:43, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Post match

Again, this may not be possible, but do we know anything about press reaction or public reaction? This section seems a bit brief. Are there any details about what the teams did afterwards?
- Nothing on any of the above is recorded. Found a bit more to add in, though

More detail would be good, but obviously only if it exists! Again, I like your expansion and the fact about Goodwyn fits in well.--Sarastro1 (talk) 21:43, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

"As was the norm" again seems archaic and should be made plainer. How long was this the case?

References

Rather than "General" and "Specific", it would be better to have References and a Bibliography.
- I was following the format of the articles on the previous two finals, both of which are GAs. I'm not fussed either way.

My preference is for bibliography, but no problem with this format if it is preferred.--Sarastro1 (talk) 21:43, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

External links

"Line-ups" seems to be broken.

Correction. It is working now, but wasn't earlier.--Sarastro1 (talk) 14:25, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Other than these issues, the article seems fine. If the issues can be fixed and a little more context given to the article, I will pass it. --Sarastro1 (talk) 00:24, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All done, or comments made above -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 17:52, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, I'm passing the article. Congratulations.--Sarastro1 (talk) 21:43, 20 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:37, 21 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dead link

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

http://www.sportingchronicle.com/FACUP/1874.html
- In 1874 FA Cup Final on 2011-05-25 02:08:49, 404 Not Found
- In 1874 FA Cup Final on 2011-06-01 23:19:03, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 23:19, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:1872 FA Cup Final which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:31, 5 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]