Talk:163rd Street–Amsterdam Avenue station

Requested move 24 February 2017

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

WP:SNOW close as a train wreck. There is clearly no consensus for what was proposed. There clearly is consensus that further discussion needs to happen about WP:USSTATION's wording and interpretation. That discussion should happen at that guideline's talk page (not a wikiproject page). I suggest an RfC, and a focus on ensuring that USSTATION is consistent with site-wide policies and guidelines, which should get rid of interpretational problems and other conflicts. Be aware that lower-casing any unnecessarily capitalized elements is expected by MOS:CAPS (see also mass RM of "Line" to "line" closing with "Move all per overwelming consensus."), and that WP:AT and WP:DAB do clearly expect removal of unnecessary disambiguations, and avoidance of parenthetical ones where natural wording will suffice. So, how to make USSTATION clearer is pretty obvious.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽^ʌⱷ҅_ᴥⱷ^ʌ≼  23:11, 3 March 2017 (UTC) (non-admin closure)

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• 163rd Street–Amsterdam Avenue (IND Eighth Avenue Line) → 163rd Street–Amsterdam Avenue station
• 68th Street–Hunter College (IRT Lexington Avenue Line) → 68th Street–Hunter College station
• Brook Avenue (IRT Pelham Line) → Brook Avenue station
• Cypress Avenue (IRT Pelham Line) → Cypress Avenue station
• East 143rd Street–St. Mary's Street (IRT Pelham Line) → East 143rd Street–St. Mary's Street station
• East 149th Street (IRT Pelham Line) → East 149th Street station
• Longwood Avenue (IRT Pelham Line) → Longwood Avenue station
• Hunts Point Avenue (IRT Pelham Line) → Hunts Point Avenue station
• Whitlock Avenue (IRT Pelham Line) → Whitlock Avenue station
• Elder Avenue (IRT Pelham Line) → Elder Avenue station
• Morrison Avenue–Soundview (IRT Pelham Line) → Morrison Avenue–Soundview station
• St. Lawrence Avenue (IRT Pelham Line) → St. Lawrence Avenue station
• Castle Hill Avenue (IRT Pelham Line) → Castle Hill Avenue station
• Zerega Avenue (IRT Pelham Line) → Zerega Avenue station
• Westchester Square–East Tremont Avenue (IRT Pelham Line) → Westchester Square–East Tremont Avenue station
• Buhre Avenue (IRT Pelham Line) → Buhre Avenue station
• Bedford Park Boulevard–Lehman College (IRT Jerome Avenue Line) → Bedford Park Boulevard–Lehman College station
• 176th Street (IRT Jerome Avenue Line) → 176th Street station
• Mount Eden Avenue (IRT Jerome Avenue Line) → Mount Eden Avenue station
• 138th Street–Grand Concourse (IRT Jerome Avenue Line) → 138th Street–Grand Concourse station
• Nevins Street (IRT Eastern Parkway Line) → Nevins Street station
• Eastern Parkway–Brooklyn Museum (IRT Eastern Parkway Line) → Eastern Parkway–Brooklyn Museum station
• Crown Heights–Utica Avenue (IRT Eastern Parkway Line) → Crown Heights–Utica Avenue station
• Sutter Avenue–Rutland Road (IRT New Lots Line) → Sutter Avenue–Rutland Road station
• Saratoga Avenue (IRT New Lots Line) → Saratoga Avenue station
• Junius Street (IRT New Lots Line) → Junius Street station
• Jackson Avenue (IRT White Plains Road Line) → Jackson Avenue station
• Third Avenue–149th Street (IRT White Plains Road Line) → Third Avenue–149th Street station
• Intervale Avenue (IRT White Plains Road Line) → Intervale Avenue station
• Simpson Street (IRT White Plains Road Line) → Simpson Street station
• Freeman Street (IRT White Plains Road Line) → Freeman Street station
• West Farms Square–East Tremont Avenue (IRT White Plains Road Line) → West Farms Square–East Tremont Avenue station
• East 180th Street (IRT White Plains Road Line) → East 180th Street station
• Times Square–42nd Street/Port Authority Bus Terminal (New York City Subway) → Times Square–42nd Street/Port Authority Bus Terminal station
• Flushing–Main Street (IRT Flushing Line) → Flushing–Main Street station
• President Street (IRT Nostrand Avenue Line) → President Street station
• Sterling Street (IRT Nostrand Avenue Line) → Sterling Street station
• Winthrop Street (IRT Nostrand Avenue Line) → Winthrop Street station
• Beverly Road (IRT Nostrand Avenue Line) → Beverly Road station
• Newkirk Avenue (IRT Nostrand Avenue Line) → Newkirk Avenue station
• Flatbush Avenue–Brooklyn College (IRT Nostrand Avenue Line) → Flatbush Avenue–Brooklyn College station
• 103rd Street–Corona Plaza (IRT Flushing Line) → 103rd Street–Corona Plaza station
• Junction Boulevard (IRT Flushing Line) → Junction Boulevard station
• 61st Street–Woodside (IRT Flushing Line) → 61st Street–Woodside station
• Queensboro Plaza (New York City Subway) → Queensboro Plaza station
• 90th Street–Elmhurst Avenue (IRT Flushing Line) → 90th Street–Elmhurst Avenue station
• 82nd Street–Jackson Heights (IRT Flushing Line) → 82nd Street–Jackson Heights station
• 46th Street–Bliss Street (IRT Flushing Line) → 46th Street–Bliss Street station
• 40th Street–Lowery Street (IRT Flushing Line) → 40th Street–Lowery Street station
• 33rd Street–Rawson Street (IRT Flushing Line) → 33rd Street–Rawson Street station
• Hunters Point Avenue (IRT Flushing Line) → Hunters Point Avenue station
• Vernon Boulevard–Jackson Avenue (IRT Flushing Line) → Vernon Boulevard–Jackson Avenue station
• 81st Street–Museum of Natural History (IND Eighth Avenue Line) → 81st Street–Museum of Natural History station
• Franklin Avenue–Fulton Street (New York City Subway) → Franklin Avenue–Fulton Street station
• Grand Central–42nd Street (New York City Subway) → Grand Central–42nd Street station
• Third Avenue–138th Street (IRT Pelham Line) → Third Avenue–138th Street station
• Court Street–Borough Hall (New York City Subway) → Court Street–Borough Hall station
• Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue (New York City Subway) → Coney Island–Stillwell Avenue station
• 14th Street–Union Square (New York City Subway) → 14th Street–Union Square station
• 149th Street–Grand Concourse (New York City Subway) → 149th Street–Grand Concourse station
• Inwood–207th Street (IND Eighth Avenue Line) → Inwood–207th Street station
• 190th Street (IND Eighth Avenue Line) → 190th Street station
• 121st Street (BMT Jamaica Line) → 121st Street station
• 116th Street–Columbia University (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) → 116th Street–Columbia University station
• Kingston–Throop Avenues (IND Fulton Street Line) → Kingston–Throop Avenues station
• 191st Street (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) → 191st Street station
• 157th Street (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) → 157th Street station
• 137th Street–City College (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) → 137th Street–City College station
• Howard Beach–JFK Airport (IND Rockaway Line) → Howard Beach–JFK Airport station
• 66th Street–Lincoln Center (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) → 66th Street–Lincoln Center station
• Marble Hill–225th Street (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) → Marble Hill–225th Street station
• 34th Street–Herald Square (New York City Subway) → 34th Street–Herald Square station
• Eighth Street–New York University (BMT Broadway Line) → Eighth Street–New York University station
• Forest Hills–71st Avenue (IND Queens Boulevard Line) → Forest Hills–71st Avenue station
• Wakefield–241st Street (IRT White Plains Road Line) → Wakefield–241st Street station
• Harlem–148th Street (IRT Lenox Avenue Line) → Harlem–148th Street station
• 75th Avenue (IND Queens Boulevard Line) → 75th Avenue station
• Norwood–205th Street (IND Concourse Line) → Norwood–205th Street station
• 57th Street–Seventh Avenue (BMT Broadway Line) → 57th Street–Seventh Avenue station
• Carroll Street (IND Culver Line) → Carroll Street station
• Van Cortlandt Park–242nd Street (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) → Van Cortlandt Park–242nd Street station
• Central Park North–110th Street (IRT Lenox Avenue Line) → Central Park North–110th Street station
• Nereid Avenue (IRT White Plains Road Line) → Nereid Avenue station
• Astoria–Ditmars Boulevard (BMT Astoria Line) → Astoria–Ditmars Boulevard station
• Prince Street (BMT Broadway Line) → Prince Street station
• Bay Ridge Avenue (BMT Fourth Avenue Line) → Bay Ridge Avenue station
• Graham Avenue (BMT Canarsie Line) → Graham Avenue station
• 174th–175th Streets (IND Concourse Line) → 174th–175th Streets station
• Jamaica–Van Wyck (IND Archer Avenue Line) → Jamaica–Van Wyck station
• Eastchester–Dyre Avenue (IRT Dyre Avenue Line) → Eastchester–Dyre Avenue station
• Baychester Avenue (IRT Dyre Avenue Line) → Baychester Avenue station
• Newkirk Plaza (BMT Brighton Line) → Newkirk Plaza station
• 59th Street–Columbus Circle (New York City Subway) → 59th Street–Columbus Circle station
• 231st Street (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) → 231st Street station
• Bay Ridge–95th Street (BMT Fourth Avenue Line) → Bay Ridge–95th Street station
• Kew Gardens–Union Turnpike (IND Queens Boulevard Line) → Kew Gardens–Union Turnpike station
• Smith–Ninth Streets (IND Culver Line) → Smith–Ninth Streets station
• West Fourth Street–Washington Square (New York City Subway) → West Fourth Street–Washington Square station
• West Eighth Street–New York Aquarium (New York City Subway) → West Eighth Street–New York Aquarium station
• Bay 50th Street (BMT West End Line) → Bay 50th Street station
• Jamaica–179th Street (IND Queens Boulevard Line) → Jamaica–179th Street station
• Neck Road (BMT Brighton Line) → Neck Road station
• Aqueduct–North Conduit Avenue (IND Rockaway Line) → Aqueduct–North Conduit Avenue station
• Hoyt–Schermerhorn Streets (New York City Subway) → Hoyt–Schermerhorn Streets station
• Parkside Avenue (BMT Brighton Line) → Parkside Avenue station
• Cortelyou Road (BMT Brighton Line) → Cortelyou Road station
• 47th–50th Streets–Rockefeller Center (IND Sixth Avenue Line) → 47th–50th Streets–Rockefeller Center station
• Ditmas Avenue (IND Culver Line) → Ditmas Avenue station
• Allerton Avenue (IRT White Plains Road Line) → Allerton Avenue station
• Fifth Avenue/53rd Street (IND Queens Boulevard Line) → Fifth Avenue/53rd Street station
• 15th Street–Prospect Park (IND Culver Line) → 15th Street–Prospect Park station
• 21st Street–Queensbridge (IND 63rd Street Line) → 21st Street–Queensbridge station
• Fifth Avenue–59th Street (BMT Broadway Line) → Fifth Avenue–59th Street station
• Christopher Street–Sheridan Square (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) → Christopher Street–Sheridan Square station
• 219th Street (IRT White Plains Road Line) → 219th Street station
• Shepherd Avenue (IND Fulton Street Line) → Shepherd Avenue station
• Neptune Avenue (IND Culver Line) → Neptune Avenue station
• 88th Street (IND Fulton Street Line) → 88th Street station
• Ozone Park–Lefferts Boulevard (IND Fulton Street Line) → Ozone Park–Lefferts Boulevard station
• Bushwick Avenue–Aberdeen Street (BMT Canarsie Line) → Bushwick Avenue–Aberdeen Street station
• Myrtle–Wyckoff Avenues (New York City Subway) → Myrtle–Wyckoff Avenues station
• Livonia Avenue (BMT Canarsie Line) → Livonia Avenue station
• Chauncey Street (BMT Jamaica Line) → Chauncey Street station
• Gates Avenue (BMT Jamaica Line) → Gates Avenue station
• Kosciuszko Street (BMT Jamaica Line) → Kosciuszko Street station
• 30th Avenue (BMT Astoria Line) → 30th Avenue station
• 36th Avenue (BMT Astoria Line) → 36th Avenue station
• 39th Avenue (BMT Astoria Line) → 39th Avenue station
• East 105th Street (BMT Canarsie Line) → East 105th Street station
• Canarsie–Rockaway Parkway (BMT Canarsie Line) → Canarsie–Rockaway Parkway station
• 182nd–183rd Streets (IND Concourse Line) → 182nd–183rd Streets station
• Roosevelt Avenue/74th Street (New York City Subway) → Roosevelt Avenue/74th Street station
• Montrose Avenue (BMT Canarsie Line) → Montrose Avenue station
• Morgan Avenue (BMT Canarsie Line) → Morgan Avenue station
• Jefferson Street (BMT Canarsie Line) → Jefferson Street station
• Marcy Avenue (BMT Jamaica Line) → Marcy Avenue station
• Hewes Street (BMT Jamaica Line) → Hewes Street station
• Knickerbocker Avenue (BMT Myrtle Avenue Line) → Knickerbocker Avenue station
• Seneca Avenue (BMT Myrtle Avenue Line) → Seneca Avenue station
• Forest Avenue (BMT Myrtle Avenue Line) → Forest Avenue station
• Fresh Pond Road (BMT Myrtle Avenue Line) → Fresh Pond Road station
• Middle Village–Metropolitan Avenue (BMT Myrtle Avenue Line) → Middle Village–Metropolitan Avenue station
• 67th Avenue (IND Queens Boulevard Line) → 67th Avenue station
• 63rd Drive–Rego Park (IND Queens Boulevard Line) → 63rd Drive–Rego Park station
• Grand Avenue–Newtown (IND Queens Boulevard Line) → Grand Avenue–Newtown station
• Beach 90th Street (IND Rockaway Line) → Beach 90th Street station
• Beach 98th Street (IND Rockaway Line) → Beach 98th Street station
• Beach 105th Street (IND Rockaway Line) → Beach 105th Street station
• Rockaway Park–Beach 116th Street (IND Rockaway Line) → Rockaway Park–Beach 116th Street station
• Beach 67th Street (IND Rockaway Line) → Beach 67th Street station
• Beach 60th Street (IND Rockaway Line) → Beach 60th Street station
• Beach 44th Street (IND Rockaway Line) → Beach 44th Street station
• Beach 36th Street (IND Rockaway Line) → Beach 36th Street station
• Beach 25th Street (IND Rockaway Line) → Beach 25th Street station
• Far Rockaway–Mott Avenue (IND Rockaway Line) → Far Rockaway–Mott Avenue station
• Broadway Junction (New York City Subway) → Broadway Junction station
• 71st Street (BMT West End Line) → 71st Street station
• 85th Street–Forest Parkway (BMT Jamaica Line) → 85th Street–Forest Parkway station
• 75th Street–Elderts Lane (BMT Jamaica Line) → 75th Street–Elderts Lane station
• Norwood Avenue (BMT Jamaica Line) → Norwood Avenue station
• Alabama Avenue (BMT Jamaica Line) → Alabama Avenue station
• Nassau Avenue (IND Crosstown Line) → Nassau Avenue station
• Myrtle–Willoughby Avenues (IND Crosstown Line) → Myrtle–Willoughby Avenues station
• Bedford–Nostrand Avenues (IND Crosstown Line) → Bedford–Nostrand Avenues station
• Classon Avenue (IND Crosstown Line) → Classon Avenue station
• 180th Street–Bronx Park (IRT White Plains Road Line) → 180th Street–Bronx Park station
• South Ferry–Whitehall Street (New York City Subway) → South Ferry–Whitehall Street station
• 161st Street–Yankee Stadium (New York City Subway) → 161st Street–Yankee Stadium station
• Lexington Avenue/59th Street (New York City Subway) → Lexington Avenue/59th Street station
• 42nd Street–Bryant Park/Fifth Avenue (New York City Subway) → 42nd Street–Bryant Park/Fifth Avenue station
• Franklin Avenue–Botanic Garden (New York City Subway) → Franklin Avenue–Botanic Garden station
• Delancey Street–Essex Street (New York City Subway) → Delancey Street–Essex Street station
• Atlantic Avenue–Barclays Center (New York City Subway) → Atlantic Avenue–Barclays Center station
• New Utrecht Avenue/62nd Street (New York City Subway) → New Utrecht Avenue/62nd Street station
• 14th Street–Eighth Avenue (New York City Subway) → 14th Street–Eighth Avenue station
• Fourth Avenue/Ninth Street (New York City Subway) → Fourth Avenue/Ninth Street station
• Bridge–Jay Streets (BMT Myrtle Avenue Line) → Bridge–Jay Streets station
• Navy Street (BMT Myrtle Avenue Line) → Navy Street station
• Adams Street (BMT Myrtle Avenue Line) → Adams Street station
• 143rd Street (IRT Third Avenue Line) → 143rd Street station
• 129th Street (IRT Third Avenue Line) → 129th Street station
• 106th Street (IRT Third Avenue Line) → 106th Street station
• 76th Street (IRT Third Avenue Line) → 76th Street station
• 156th Street (IRT Third Avenue Line) → 156th Street station
• 161st Street (IRT Third Avenue Line) → 161st Street station
• 166th Street (IRT Third Avenue Line) → 166th Street station
• Tremont Avenue–177th Street (IRT Third Avenue Line) → Tremont Avenue–177th Street station
• Fordham Road–190th Street (IRT Third Avenue Line) → Fordham Road–190th Street station
• 204th Street (IRT Third Avenue Line) → 204th Street station
• 210th Street–Williamsbridge (IRT Third Avenue Line) → 210th Street–Williamsbridge station
• Battery Place (IRT Ninth Avenue Line) → Battery Place station
• Barclay Street (IRT Ninth Avenue Line) → Barclay Street station
• Desbrosses Street (IRT Ninth Avenue Line) → Desbrosses Street station
• 130th Street (IRT Ninth Avenue Line) → 130th Street station
• 140th Street (IRT Ninth Avenue Line) → 140th Street station
• 151st Street (IRT Ninth Avenue Line) → 151st Street station
• Anderson–Jerome Avenues (IRT Ninth Avenue Line) → Anderson–Jerome Avenues station
• 58th Street Terminal (IRT Sixth Avenue Line) → 58th Street Terminal station
• Bronx Park Terminal (IRT Third Avenue Line) → Bronx Park Terminal station
• Driggs Avenue (BMT Jamaica Line) → Driggs Avenue station
• Saint Marks Avenue (BMT Fifth Avenue Line) → Saint Marks Avenue station
• 65th Street Terminal (BMT Fifth Avenue Line) → 65th Street Terminal station
• Court Street–Myrtle Avenue (BMT Fulton Street Line) → Court Street–Myrtle Avenue station
• Boerum Place (BMT Fulton Street Line) → Boerum Place station
• Elm Place–Duffield Street (BMT Fulton Street Line) → Elm Place–Duffield Street station
• Brooklyn–Tompkins Avenues (BMT Fulton Street Line) → Brooklyn–Tompkins Avenues station
• Albany–Sumner Avenues (BMT Fulton Street Line) → Albany–Sumner Avenues station
• Linwood Street (BMT Fulton Street Line) → Linwood Street station
• Montauk Avenue (BMT Fulton Street Line) → Montauk Avenue station
• 160th Street (BMT Jamaica Line) → 160th Street station
• Lorimer Street/Metropolitan Avenue (New York City Subway) → Lorimer Street/Metropolitan Avenue station
• Lexington Avenue/51st–53rd Streets (New York City Subway) → Lexington Avenue/51st–53rd Streets station
• Brooklyn Bridge–City Hall/Chambers Street (New York City Subway) → Brooklyn Bridge–City Hall/Chambers Street station
• Chambers Street–World Trade Center/Park Place (New York City Subway) → Chambers Street–World Trade Center/Park Place station
• Jay Street–MetroTech (New York City Subway) → Jay Street–MetroTech station
• Bleecker Street/Broadway–Lafayette Street (New York City Subway) → Bleecker Street/Broadway–Lafayette Street station
• 34th Street–Hudson Yards (IRT Flushing Line) → 34th Street–Hudson Yards station
• 14th Street/Sixth Avenue (New York City Subway) → 14th Street/Sixth Avenue station
• Hinsdale Street (BMT Fulton Street Line) → Hinsdale Street station
• Clark–Tillary Streets (BMT Fulton Street Line) → Clark–Tillary Streets station
• Troy Avenue (BMT Fulton Street Line) → Troy Avenue station
• 221st Street (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) → 221st Street station

– Remove unnecessary disambiguators and add "station" per WP:USSTATION Pppery 17:57, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

• Comment This list was automatically generated by looking at all articles in Category:New York City Subway stations and subpages, and then selecting those whose proposed targets without the "station" either are red or redirect to the current title. Pppery 18:19, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
• Comment Originally this move requested titles without "station". Pppery 22:47, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

Responses

• Oppose all in option 1 (without the disambiguator "station"); oppose procedurally on option 2 (with disambiguator) pending a project-wide discussion. For option 1: Some of these are compound names, where the parts of the compound do have articles. Second, some of these targets may be notable in their own right in the future, not just as a subway station. Third and most importantly, it does not make obvious that the article is about a station, unlike current WP:NYCPT guidelines or even WP:USSTATION, both of which are more feasible and present a more uniform solution. epicgenius (talk) 18:32, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

  1. Why does it matter if this is a compound name for parts that have articles?
  2. When/if another article would be created that has a title conflict with a subway station, the station can be moved back to the disambiguated title.
  3. I have no objection to adding "station" to the title where it is absent or some other non-parentetical method of indicating that.

  Pppery 18:43, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

  1. Because they are also known by other names as well, and most commonly they are known by their component parts. Like this station. It is known as 163rd Street, which is also the name of a street (arguably, that's just a redirect). But with examples like 34th Street–Hudson Yards, there are other stations named 34th Street (e.g. 34th Street–Herald Square, 34th Street–Penn Station (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line), 34th Street–Penn Station (IND Eighth Avenue Line)). Oh, and also Flatbush Avenue–Brooklyn College (IRT Nostrand Avenue Line), where articles exist for both Flatbush Avenue and Brooklyn College.
  2. It's misleading to begin with, so let's not go there. For instance, how do we know that Brook Avenue is about the station, not the avenue?
  3. Me neither. I agree with Station1 in this case. (We can just add the word "station" to the proposed titles listed here and add the word "station" behind the disambiguators in all the remaining articles. Problem solved! Seemingly.) But the addition of the word "station" in the title is not what the RM is about. epicgenius (talk) 19:25, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

     On the first point, the isn't the part after the dash a form of natural disambiguation? Pppery 19:29, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

     They could be, but are often known by their components as well. The part after the dash can be removed at any time. For instance, 34th Street–Hudson Yards (IRT Flushing Line) is colloquially also known as 34th Street (IRT Flushing Line). But my main quibble is that the proposed new names talk about the stations as if they were streets or intersections. epicgenius (talk) 19:45, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

  • Let me make a list of all names that I oppose, for now (I'm not done yet):
    • Oppose all compound names (all titles with endashes or slashes), as they are also known by the parts of their names (e.g. Bedford Park Boulevard–Lehman College (IRT Jerome Avenue Line) is also known as Bedford Park Boulevard (IRT Jerome Avenue Line)).
    • Oppose all names where two or more stations are located are on the same street. (e.g. East 149th Street (IRT Pelham Line) and Third Avenue–149th Street (IRT White Plains Road Line) are both known as 149th Street).
    • Oppose all names that are simply numbered streets plus the disambiguator. They can be reasonably confused with the name of an actual street. Particularly for 76th Street (IRT Third Avenue Line), there is a redirect called 76th Street (IND Fulton Street Line).
    • Oppose Beverly Road (IRT Nostrand Avenue Line) → Beverly Road. Not to be confused with multiple stations named Beverley Road.
    • Oppose Newkirk Avenue (IRT Nostrand Avenue Line) → Newkirk Avenue; Newkirk Plaza (BMT Brighton Line) → Newkirk Plaza. They are still both known as "Newkirk Avenue".
    • Oppose Hunters Point Avenue (IRT Flushing Line) → Hunters Point Avenue. The article Hunterspoint Avenue exists and they can be reasonably confused. epicgenius (talk) 19:45, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
    • Oppose Cumberland Avenue (BMT Fulton Street Line) → Cumberland Avenue station because the target already exists. epicgenius (talk) 20:33, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
      • Removed from request. Pppery 20:37, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
• Alternative: The word "station" should be added to the proposed title in each case. These articles are about the stations, not the nearby streets by which they happen to be identified. This is especially important for cases like Cypress Avenue, which was once and could possibly again be about the street in Los Angeles. Station1 (talk) 18:56, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose all. It is unnecessary to change the page names, it would go against the current naming convention/consensus. The current standard makes it clear that these articles are about subway stations (as opposed to actual streets) and what line they are on. I'd also like to emphasize the flawed naming you are proposing. First of all, you would be giving these articles names that are ambiguous in both context and location. I guarantee there are numerous "160th Streets", "Jackson Avenues", "Navy Streets", etc. in the United States, if not the world, and plenty of locations that could be referred to by those names, so giving a station article sole possession of that name is just incorrect. Second, you would be creating two naming conventions for stations: station articles which are "disambiguated" but clearly defined because they share names with other articles; and stations with vague names simply because they don't have a similar name to another article, or because the street that stop is located at doesn't have an article for it (yet). The alternative would still create two standards (disambiguated and not) which is unnecessary. Tdorante10 (talk) 19:03, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
  • I am not trying to create two standards, and what you are saying, that some are disambiguated, is the general way articles are titled on Wikipedia. Adding disambiguators for titles without conflict was explictly rejected by an RfC in September. Pppery 19:09, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
  • The current names do seem contrary to the guideline at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (US stations). Station1 (talk) 19:17, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
    • What does that have to do with my reply, and why did you double-indent it? Pppery 19:19, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
      • Purely a typo (now fixed), sorry. I agree the current titles should be changed to conform with policy at WP:AT and guidelines. Station1 (talk) 19:23, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
        • The current names were devised before USSTATION was created. The guidelines are at Wikipedia:WikiProject New York City Public Transportation/New York City Subway/Station naming convention, and need consensus from the project to override with USSTATION. However, this can be discussed at a later RM. epicgenius (talk) 19:25, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
          • No, a Wikiproject consensus would not override a WP-wide guideline, and a newer guideline would override an older guideline anyway. And neither could override policy at WP:AT. Station1 (talk) 19:33, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
            • Actually, the project consensus can override the guideline since it's not policy. Policy can override everything, though. Not seeing anything in AT that would preclude the current naming guideline from being valid or comprehensible. epicgenius (talk) 19:47, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose all fails WP:TITLE 5 criteria. In ictu oculi (talk) 19:30, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
  • If you're talking about consistency (item 5), the curernt titles are not consistent, whereas using station would make them consistent with all other U.S. stations per guidelines. "IRT New Lots Line" is meaningless to much of the world other than subway fans. Even most New Yorkers don't know the difference between the IND, BMT and IRT anymore. Station1 (talk) 19:45, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
    • Not quite true. That's kind of cherrypicking, because people can (and do) distinguish between IND Eighth Avenue Line (8 Av Line), IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line (7 Av Line/West Side Line), IND Sixth Avenue Line (6 Av Line), BMT Broadway Line (obvious), IRT Lexington Avenue Line (Lex Av Line/East Side Line). The IND/BMT/IRT disambiguators are still used regularly by the MTA, and we can't use service names as disambiguators because services change very frequently and aren't attached to any tracks. Lines, however, comprise the physical trackage, and that is why we use lines as a disambiguator. epicgenius (talk) 19:51, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
      • Sure, that could make sense where disambiguation is necessary, say for Wall Street station, but to title something Junius Street (IRT New Lots Line) rather than simply Junius Street station fails all 5 criteria at WP:AT. Station1 (talk) 20:08, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
        • Weird that you say that exact example. This article would need to be merged with Livonia Avenue (BMT Canarsie Line) in a few years, anyway, so we'd have Livonia Avenue–Junius Street station if that were ever to be renamed. But for the rest of the articles, like Sterling Street (IRT Nostrand Avenue Line), I agree that maybe adding just plain "station" might work, although it'd take out the convenience of knowing which line the station is on just from the page title. epicgenius (talk) 02:26, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose all As mentioned above, all of these names are flawed. The new titles would be referring to streets, which can have articles created for them. Also, as mentioned, there are several stations that have the same name. Then you would have some articles that have disambiguated titles, and others without, which would be confusing, and which would mess up necessary templates in all articles. If anything has to be done, I could understand adding the word station to the existing titles, as this would clarify things, and as Station is included on some signs. Your name changes would go against WP:NYCPT naming conventions. This change would not help anything at all. It would make things harder and more confusing.--Kew Gardens 613 (talk) 19:56, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

  [H]av[ing] some articles that have disambiguated titles, and others without, is not confusing; it is the standard way articles are titles on Wikipedia. The current titles, go against a more general RfC. Pppery 20:02, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

  It is confusing if they're all part of a series, use the same infoboxes and article layouts, and fall under the same wikiprojects. Also, your proposed titles don't make it clear that the articles are about stations. epicgenius (talk) 20:03, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

  And, as I said earlier, I would support the titles with station at the end to. Should I change the request to add that? Pppery 20:05, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

  I'd be fine if you added it to all the proposed titles. epicgenius (talk) 20:08, 24 February 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose all per epicgenius Tdorante10, Kew Gardens 613, and I opposed the renaming rampages within US Stations for the same reasons. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 20:10, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose for now. This should be taken up as a project naming convention discussion if at all. The NYC subway has conventions that are OK (there's no policy against so-called unnecessary disambiguation) and that predate USSTATION, so that's OK for now. Changing to be more like USSTATION would also be OK, but is going to be a ton of work for the project and may have important ramifications that should be worked out there, not in a one-week general RM discussion where the key issues are going to be hard to resolve. My two-cents: over-capitalization of "Line" and "Subway" are a bigger problem, and should be addressed at the same time (see sources and sources). Dicklyon (talk) 22:14, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose, just because everyone else is and it seems therefore that the sooner we snowball this the better. Daniel Case (talk) 22:22, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
• Comment we certainly should add "station" per WP:USSTATION and for recognizability (titling something like 130th Street makes it look like a street, not a station, even if we don't happen to have an article about that street). Having said that, though, the general proposal is a good one. The titles do a poor job of identifying the subject at present. As a non-American, I can honestly say that I would have no idea these articles even pertained to the NYC subway. Most of them are unnecessary as the nominator says, and add nothing for readers, which a simple "station" wouldn't add just as well. I find the knee-jerk opposes above a little baffling, given that the present names self-evidently don't satisfy WP:CRITERIA. Just take a moment to think about the situation logically, rather than worrying about what we've done before or the amount of work involved in renaming. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 22:28, 24 February 2017 (UTC)
  • As one of the opposers (who has opposed a similar renaming of WMATA articles in the past), what concerns me is not the new names themselves, but the lack of a standard for all of the articles in a given railway system. I'd prefer that there be a standard first because there are a lot of templates that depend on the article name itself, and I don't want myself, or anyone else, to have to unnecessarily rewrite templates. epicgenius (talk) 02:26, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
    • Why would templates have to be rewritten? The old titles would still exist as redirects. Station1 (talk) 06:07, 25 February 2017 (UTC)'
      • Because the templates are based on the page name itself, particularly based on a string that is present in the title. For instance, {{NYCS Platform Layout IRT Jerome Avenue Line}} looks for the string "IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line" and changes the output accordingly. epicgenius (talk) 20:32, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose all. In real life NYC Subway stations are not called just Queensboro Plaza or Bowling Green, but Queensboro Plaza (7/N/W) or Bowling Green (4/5). While naming articles, we have to follow real names of objects, and we do, with one remark: we replace service names with line names, per epicgenius, "because services change very frequently." So, these additions are not our internal disambiguators, but parts of real names reflecting real life. Vcohen (talk) 09:20, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
• Support per nomination. As one who has used the MTA for over 50 years, I find the above parenthetical qualifiers [especially the numerous ones which needlessly, unnecessarily and pointlessly specify simply, "(New York City Subway)", e.g. Times Square–42nd Street/Port Authority Bus Terminal (New York City Subway)] to be prime examples of WP:Unnecessary disambiguation. All of these entries can stand alone without the qualifiers. If anyone wants a list of the outdated line designations, all such details are available under Category:New York City Subway or Category:New York City Subway lines. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 15:27, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
  • They're not outdated. epicgenius (talk) 20:29, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose removing the line disambiguators per Vcohen. As people use the word "station" in common language and we can't use service names, I'd suggest using the line names without the original agencies (23rd Street station (Broadway Line), Fulton Street station (Crosstown Line), etc.) — Train2104 (t • c) 23:27, 25 February 2017 (UTC)
  • Hmm. That sounds good for the most part but then we have situations like Rockaway Avenue (IND Fulton Street Line)/Rockaway Avenue (BMT Fulton Street Line), 23rd Street (BMT Broadway Line)/23rd Street (IRT Broadway–Seventh Avenue Line) (to a lesser extent), etc. epicgenius (talk) 23:50, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

With IRT 59th/CC a transfer station with a generic title, there should be no obvious conflicts between IRT Broadway and BMT Broadway. Just make sure 23rd Street station (Seventh Avenue Line), etc redirects to the right station. BMT Broadway / BMT Broadway Brooklyn is avoided because WP uses "BMT Jamaica". The other cases are all abandoned stations. In the small handful of those cases, the open station should stick to the standrdized scheme (Rockaway Avenue station (Fulton Street Line)) and the abandoned station either uses a parenthetical of (abandoned) or (BMT Fulton Street Line). — Train2104 (t • c) 23:59, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Why would the demolished station be labeled "abandoned" in the title? That implies that the two stations were on the same Fulton Street Line, when they aren't. epicgenius (talk) 04:42, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

I'd also like to point out there are abandoned stations on existing lines, most notably City Hall (IRT Lexington Avenue Line). Speaking of which there's also the distinction between stations along the IRT Lexington Avenue Line and former BMT Lexington Avenue Line (some of which are still being used on the BMT Jamaica Line), thus the naming conventions between the ones on the IND Fulton Street Line and BMT Fulton Street Line should remain in tact. ---------User:DanTD (talk) 04:54, 26 February 2017 (UTC)

• Opose All There are other stations with the same name. For instance, Flushing-Main Street is the name of a station on both the LIRR and IRT Flushing Line. At the same time, there are stations within the subway system that have the same name, but are served by different services and are not connected with each other (e.g. 34th Street-Penn Station is the name of two unconnected stations served by the IRT Broadway-Seventh Avenue Line and the IND Eighth Avenie Line).--107.0.69.23 (talk) 16:20, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

  And neither of those stations are included in this requested move. Pppery 21:37, 27 February 2017 (UTC)

  Luckily, I have listed some above. E.g. Newkirk Avenue (IRT Nostrand Avenue Line)/Newkirk Plaza (BMT Brighton Line) and Hunters Point Avenue (IRT Flushing Line)/Hunterspoint Avenue (LIRR station). epicgenius (talk) 00:39, 28 February 2017 (UTC)

• Oppose all, per Epicgenius et al., particularly with respect to templates where project-wide consistency is necessary. However, the Xxx station redirects should be created. Useddenim (talk) 21:58, 27 February 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose all per epicgenius Tdorante10, Kew Gardens 613, DanTD and I opposed the renaming rampages within US Stations for the same reasons. --SkipperRipper (talk) 04:30, 28 February 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose All due to the fact many stations have similar names, and that all NYCS stations are in the format (Name) (Line) --Captian Cavy (talk) 22:25, 1 March 2017 (UTC)

EDIT: Do Create the alternate titles as redirects.

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

These moves eventually happened after this June 2019 NYC Subway RfC. – wbm1058 (talk) 12:12, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

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