Talk:16–25 Railcard

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the 16–25 Railcard article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Trains: in UK / in Scotland / in London Mid‑importance

	Trains Portal

	London Transport Portal

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Trains, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to rail transport on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion. See also: WikiProject Trains to do list and the Trains Portal.TrainsWikipedia:WikiProject TrainsTemplate:WikiProject Trainsrail transport articles

Mid

This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Associated projects or task forces:
/
	This article is supported by WikiProject UK Railways (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Transport in Scotland (assessed as Mid-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject London Transport (assessed as Low-importance).

16–25 Railcard was a Engineering and technology good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
December 27, 2010	Good article nominee	Not listed

A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on June 17, 2007.

The text of the entry was: Did you know ...that one British bank, as an incentive for university students to open a new account with it, offers free Young Persons Railcards, valid for five years and worth £100?

Comments

Yes, and seemed to be an advert for NatWest. Pffff Stevebritgimp 17:57, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To be fair, I didn't name them in the "Did You Know?" wording. If you would like some balance, here's my local twopennyworth: three of the four British "High Street banks" maintain a presence in my home village of Hassocks. Which bank closed their branch a number of years ago to much protest? - Well, I won't advertise their name... :) Hassocks5489 19:56, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Refs need fixing

Boddy is cited in the refs, but there is no Bibliography, to know what Boddy is. Bob1960evens (talk) 22:30, 18 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I hope to carry out work to update the article and fix refs in the next 24 hours. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 18:37, 19 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:16–25 Railcard/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Ironholds (talk) 06:42, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'll go through section-by-section, pointing out (initial) problems which need to be fixed before this can go ahead. Mostly it's referencing.

History

"In the 1960s and 1970s, many new universities were opened in Britain, while car ownership was relatively low, especially among young people. Furthermore, internal flights were not as cheap or prevalent as they are now. Most students either hitched or took a long distance coach. The National Union of Students had a very large travel company at the time with charter flights all over the world. They wanted to expand their operations domestically and so went to various regional sales managers of British Railways to develop special fares for holders of NUS cards. These were usually an allocated number of seats on specified weekend trains but they were very successful and Paul Connellan, who was the Travel Company General Manager, went to the British Railways Board with a proposal to allow a general discount based on the NUS card. The railways management, led by Alan Chamberlain, were reluctant to offer a discount based just on such cards particularly as some colleges and universities were not members of the NUS. A compromise was agreed where a special card would be sold but only through student travel offices." - unreferenced.
"it was valid until a specific date—30 June 1974—rather than for a specific length of time. Only second class tickets could be bought, and all types of ticket were subject to a minimum fare below which no further discount would be given. The maximum discount was 50%. A booklet containing ten "Student Travel Request Forms" was supplied with the card; one had to be filled in and presented at the ticket office when booking a ticket." - unreferenced.
"Online booking of Railcards has also been made available since then, which includes the option of a three-year railcard for £65." - unreferenced, and external links within prose are bad.

Ticket types and discounts

"As of 2 January 2008, for people using public transport in London, the discount can be loaded on to an Oyster Card at any London Underground ticket office, providing the 34% discount off the cost of a One Day Travelcard and the Oyster automatic daily cap. From 2010 discounted paper tickets have been suspended in the Transport for London zoned area[citation needed]. An Oyster card loaded with the railcard can be used to obtain 34% reduction on Off Peak single National Rail fares in the area or the Off Peak Cap rate." - unreferenced.

Remainder

"Price and minimum fare" and "Tickets issued with a Railcard" are completely unreferenced (and, again, contain inline external links)

"RBS operate the sames initiative, also offering 16-25 railcards to existing customers after being contacted by UCAS.

The bank Railcards are used in the same way as standard, paid-for Railcards: the same range of tickets is available at the same discounts, and subject to the same terms and conditions." = unreferenced.

The little templated railcard thing at the bottom needs to go actually at the bottom (below references et al).

I'll be able to give a more specific review of prose and the like when this lot fixed, but until then it certainly can't pass GAN. Thanks, Ironholds (talk) 06:42, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review, I've alerted the article writer User:Hassocks5489 . It may be a few days though as it is Christmas!♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:31, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Okay; can I ask why you nominated it if you weren't involved in the writing? Ironholds (talk) 12:06, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I nominate some of his articles every now and then. St Margaret's Church, Ifield for instance.. Usually though I nominate articles which require very little work to promote them..♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:25, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well, in the future, could you try to stick to that rule? This article really isn't appropriate as a GAN. Ironholds (talk) 13:51, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your review so far Ironholds. I have spent some time today seeking online sources for a number of unsourced statements which have crept in since I last looked at this article, some considerable time ago. Unfortunately, I have been completely unsuccessful so far. Having taken a close interest in this super-niche field of interest for more than 20 years, I can say that Railcard-related news will appear, if anywhere, in one or more of three places: the Newsrail Express, a rail industry "latest news" publication; railway magazines (for large changes/news stories); and the National Rail News section of the monthly Transport Ticket Society Journal. As regards the latter, I have written this column myself since 2002, and checking the annual Indexes confirms my thought that Railcard-related news has been thin on the ground in that time. I can get access to back issues of the main railway magazines and Newsrail Express, but not for at least a month (realistically, probably longer than that). So unfortunately, without online sources to tide me over until I can seek out published stuff, I will struggle to provide suitable references for the above and for other parts I have identified where the referencing is substandard or the URL is no longer accurate. A disappointing outcome, as I had hoped that the article might just be in need of a bit of a tidy-up and a few reference tweaks, but never mind. Hopefully in 2011 I may be able to get access to some relevant material, overhaul the article (I can see there are a few prose issues as well) and present it again-although as you say, such a niche-interest topic is difficult to align to Good Article criteria. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 20:32, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I should add that the same applies to Senior Railcard, which has also been nominated and for which I have also failed to turn up any more sources beyond those already used in the article. Hassocks5489 (tickets please!) 21:29, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

OK, its probably best to withdraw both the articles then. Sorry about that.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:44, 26 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Okay; I'll quickfail both based on this discussion. In the future, however, I encourage all parties to nominate (appropriate) articles at GAN, and feel free to leave me a talkpage message directly asking for a review - that's probably faster than waiting around. Regards, Ironholds (talk) 01:50, 27 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, regards.♦ Dr. Blofeld 21:12, 27 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dead link

During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/faresandtickets/oneand3daytickets/11696.aspx
- In 16–25 Railcard on 2011-05-25 01:55:40, 404 Not Found
- In 16–25 Railcard on 2011-06-01 19:31:11, 404 Not Found

--JeffGBot (talk) 19:31, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Should the 26-30 railcard be split off into a new article?

I can see the case for it being split off, but I think maybe changing this article to encompass both cards would be the best solution. Something like Young Persons Railcards or Youth railcards in the UK? Bellowhead678 (talk) 08:30, 24 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Obviously very late, @Bellowhead678:, but would support this - feel free to be bold and do it yourself! Mattdaviesfsic (talk) 08:23, 14 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

done :) Saussure4661 (talk) 22:35, 29 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]