Talk:ʻAbdu'l-Bahá's journeys to the West

another source to integrate

Egea, Amin (2011). "The Travels of `Abdu'l-Bahá and their Impact on the Press". Lights of Irfan. 12. Wilmette, IL:: Haj Mehdi Armand Colloquium,: 1–25.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: extra punctuation (link) Smkolins (talk) 22:33, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

And another - Ma'ani, Baharieh Rouhani (2008). Leaves of the Twin Divine Trees. George Ronald Publisher. p. 448. ISBN 9780853985334. Smkolins (talk) 23:38, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

inclusion of some specific reactions

I'd like to discuss re-incuding the following:

One, though directly involved in the logistics for many meetings, would become "shamefully indifferent to his departure.... (his talks) came dangerously close near being ridiculous.... it is absurd for such moral milk for babes to be administered to justices of the Supreme Court, scholars, and public officials...", while another, who would be alone in a room with him and almost unable to speak any words in common, would forty three years later be able to mark his life before meeting him "much as the ten-year-old-child might be imagined to regard his matrix life, assuming him capable of that keen vision."

First one editor dropped out the first half and then another editor dropped out the second half. To me they form a nice combination. I think it captures more than a bit of the substance of the events. Thoughts? Smkolins (talk) 23:49, 6 December 2011 (UTC)

I don't think the above is neutral. Do you think it would be included in Iranica, or would the tone be even be included in some third party reference? Regards, -- Jeff3000 (talk) 00:48, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

The second quote makes sense, but the first one confuses me, maybe because the quote begins by describing the individual involved in the logistics, but seems to end by describing 'Abdu'l-Baha's talks from that individual's perspective. If used, it should be split up into two sections, and either or both sections quoted separately. That being said, I don't really see that either the first or second quote really capture anything of substance besides the varied reactions of different people (of unknown notability) to the talks, which seem more like minutiae to me. Now, if those reactions were gathered with others—say, those of public figures and included in an overarching "Reactions" section to give an overall picture of the range of responses, that could make more sense. --dragfyre_ʞןɐʇc 20:56, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

The first is a Washington socialite who had her diary printed (the source.) She was Ellen Maury Slayden, wife of James Luther Slayden. She was directly involved with some logistics (according to her own words) and thus speaks to one individual's reaction (and noting something about who was there to listen that most sources don't specify.) The second is Howard Colby Ives, a former unitarian universalist minister who later became a Baha'i. Adding the above citations would speak to a reactions section but the idea here was to present some sense of the breadth of reactions, even a degree of dichotomy in reactions. Smkolins (talk) 23:16, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Fair enough. A few notes, then, and of course, IANAPPW (I Am Not A Pulitzer Prize Winner) so take them with a ball of salt: --dragfyre_ʞןɐʇc 03:36, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

• Create a "reactions" section, and collect a number of reactions to give a broader view of the types of response that the visits elicited: outright hostility; satire; indifference; curiosity; openness and welcome; astonishment; adoration; and even, in some cases (such as Ives's), transformation. This will help to show that there was a continuum of response from positive to negative, not simply polarization.
  • Reactions from the media: newspapers, radio, newsreels, etc. There's tons of this available so it shouldn't be hard to integrate it.
  • As an example of satire, refer to Stephen Leacock's parody of 'Abdu'l-Baha, The Yahi-Bahi Society of Mrs. Resselyer-Brown.
  • Several instances of individual reactions are given in the article as is; they could either be moved to this section or referred to again: for example, Rev. Peter Z. Easton's (hostility) and Alexander Whyte's (astonishment).
• Split Slayden's quote into "shamefully indifferent to his departure..." and "came dangerously close near being ridiculous.... it is absurd for such moral milk for babes to be administered to justices of the Supreme Court, scholars, and public officials..." as these two parts seem to be talking about different things: first about her own feeling, and second about her evaluation of 'Abdu'l-Baha's talks.
• Cite the quotes, instead of simply saying that "one person said X, another said Y". Knowing who said what might help readers put each quote in context.

References