Talk:Šćepan Mali/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: No Great Shaker (talk · contribs) 05:59, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Starting review. Hope to have some feedback soon. No Great Shaker (talk) 05:59, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GACR#1a. Well written: the prose is clear, concise and understandable.
GACR#1a. Well written: the spelling and grammar are correct.
GACR#1b. Complies with the MOS guidelines for lead sections.
GACR#1b. Complies with the MOS guidelines for article structure and layout.
GACR#1b. Complies with the MOS guidelines for words to watch.
GACR#1b. Complies with the MOS guidelines for writing about fiction – not applicable.
GACR#1b. Complies with the MOS guidelines for list incorporation – not applicable.
GACR#2a. Contains a list of all references in accordance with the layout style guideline.
GACR#2b. All statements are verifiable with inline citations provided.
GACR#2b. All inline citations are from reliable sources, etc.
GACR#2b. All quotations are cited and their usage complies with MOS guidelines.
GACR#2c. No original research.
GACR#2d. No copyright violations or plagiarism.
GACR#3. Broad in its coverage but within scope and in summary style.
GACR#4. Neutral (NPOV).
GACR#5. Stable.
GACR#6a. Images are at least fair use and do not breach copyright.
GACR#6b. Images are relevant to the topic with appropriate captions.

I'll be using the checklist above to register progress. No Great Shaker (talk) 06:08, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Surprised to see the article classified as a stub, which it is not. I've corrected that and have been looking at the images which are all PD, own work or fair use so no problems with them. The captions are all appropriate. No problems with article stability. No Great Shaker (talk) 07:00, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pleased to see that all citations reference book sources. These are all in the bibliography and are correctly linked. I don't know anything about the authors or their works so I've done a bit of research and I'm satisfied that they are all authoritative sources. The article gives the clear impression of thorough research. I've ticked point 10 above. No Great Shaker (talk) 08:36, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for taking on the review! The GA bot left a strange message on my talk page saying you had failed the nomination so I'm happy to see that's not the case and that everything's going well. If there are any concerns that pop up along the way I'll make sure to deal with them as fast as possible. Ichthyovenator (talk) 10:15, 13 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Ichthyovenator. That has happened in another case where the title contains non-standard characters. I don't know if it's a bug in the software but there was a server crash around the time I was updating these. As with the other one, you've got two notifications: one for the correct title and one for a title containing question marks. Oh, well, I'll carry on with the correct title, ha! I should be able to give you some feedback before too long though I'm going to be busy offsite most of today. All the best and keep safe. No Great Shaker (talk) 04:40, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

On hold for seven days

I've updated the criteria above, though a few remain undecided as yet pending resolution of problems described below. In a broad sense, the article at present is not well written and there is inadequate use of citations, especially for quotations. My impression is that the article wasn't proofread or copyedited before nomination and I will need these to be done thoroughly before I can continue with the review. There are a couple of general points and a few about the lead but concerns about the narrative are extensive.

General

On the edit page, please vertically align the infobox variables (after the =) to make it easier for future editors and remove the unused parameters.

The article uses GB-style ddmmyyyy date format (e.g., 3 October 1767) throughout but some of the spelling (e.g., rumor, realized, recognized) is US-style. Consistency is needed and, as GB prevails, it would be best to amend the spellings to rumour, realised, recognised, etc. I would add the BE and DMY templates at the top of the edit page.

Lead

The phrase otherwise typically infighting is an awkward construction – in the context, just infighting will do

He ruled until he was murdered by one of his servants, bribed by the Ottomans, on 22 September 1773. Move this sentence to the end of the paragraph for chronological sequence.

The clause introduced numerous reforms in Montenegro; among other things introducing the death penalty is repetitive with "introduced" and "introducing" in the same sentence – suggest "legislated" instead of "introduced".

Narrative

Inline citations and intext attribution are needed throughout for all instances of quotation or expression of opinion as per WP:INTEXT.

There are several spelling, grammar and syntax errors which should be checked by means of copyediting. For example, spelling mistakes include "feauding", "Vienne", "respectfull" and the use of "Stephen" for Šcepan.

There are many instances of wording that needs to be improved by change or omission. Again, thorough proofreading and copyediting are needed to resolve these issues. For example:

The word "actually" occurs 13 times and is nearly always unnecessary.

There are half a dozen uses of "infighting" which, having been established in the background section, does not need reiteration whenever the clans are mentioned.

There are words like "dissatisfactory" which are not generally recognised by English readers. (This should be "unsatisfactory" or, given the context, "unacceptable".)

In one case, there is mention of rumours "swirling", which should be "circulating".

Change "he thus preceded to Cetinje" to "he proceeded to Cetinje".

Correct "the sound of gunshots five in the morning on the next day".

Amend "Sergeant Major" to "sergeant major" and link. Also, he was a sergeant major in the Russian army, not of it.

Several sentences and paragraphs are too long and need to be split. For example:

Even if this identification would be correct, it would not completely solve the mystery as it would still remain unclear why Baljevic would chose to travel to Montenegro in particular. Four instances of "would" in one sentence. Even if this identification was proved to be correct, it would not completely solve the mystery as it is not known why Baljevic should go to Montenegro.

He was immediately surmised to look nothing like a Russian Tsar, being described as dressing in "Greek style" (wearing a white silk tunic, a red cap on his head which he never takes off and carrying a Turkish pipe). This sentence needs to be revised and split. The sources immediately thought he looked nothing like a Russian Tsar. They described him as dressing in the "Greek style" – he wore a white silk tunic and a red cap which he never took off; and he carried a Turkish pipe.

Šcepan arrived at the monastery by the capital where Dolgorukov was staying, together with his mounted guards, and the Montenegrins who had just the previous day seen Šcepan exposed as an impostor and had formally sworn loyalty to Catherine the Great greeted Šcepan with joy and followed him. This sentence is too long and should be split. Words like "just" are unnecessary in this context. Šcepan and his mounted guards arrived at the monastery where Dolgorukov was staying near the capital. Although the Montenegrins had seen him exposed as an impostor and had formally sworn loyalty to Catherine the Great, they greeted him with joy and followed him.

Had Šcepan completely avoided the meeting, he would have lost the trust of the Montenegrin people and he had thus decided to play a hero and return to assert his rule. Also too long. Šcepan would have lost the trust of the Montenegrin people if he had avoided the meeting. He decided to play the hero and returned to assert his rule.

An example of a paragraph break being needed is before In early February 1768 as time has moved on.

Some sentences and clauses would be better if expressed in active voice rather than passive. For example:

Sava was not respected among the Montenegrins and did little actual ruling. This would be better if expressed actively instead of passively and "actual ruling" doesn't sit well in the context. The Montenegrins had little respect for Sava who was an idle ruler.

Refusing to personally either confirm or deny whether he was Peter III or not, he signed the document with... is somewhat convoluted. He personally refused to confirm or deny if he was Peter III and signed the document with...

I've only given examples here because a considerable amount of work is needed to bring this up to standard and I don't want to be too specific at present because a further review will be necessary. I think the review is borderline WP:GAFAIL as regards GACR#1a and GACR#2b, but I think the article can be improved within seven days and so I am placing the review on hold. No Great Shaker (talk) 13:22, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No Great Shaker I can definitely see the concerns you bring up. In regards to citations, I don't think these are problematic; if there is just one citation for an entire paragraph, that citation covers the entire paragraph (or maybe I'm misunderstanding the issue here?). The prose problems are an issue and regretfully, I have several exams at university over the next two weeks so I will not have the time to do the large-scale proof-readings and edits needed here. You are welcome to fail the nomination as per your reasons and I'll work through it, nominate it for a copy-edit and then re-nominate it for GA when I have the time. Ichthyovenator (talk) 16:41, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Ichthyovenator. I understand your problem and it would be best to fail the review for now as we are in a GAN backlog drive. When you have re-nominated, let me know and I'll be happy to pick it up again. I realise that some citations cover whole paragraphs but it is necessary per WP:INTEXT to also place them immediately after any sentence that contains a quotation or an opinion. There must also be in-text attribution of each quotation or opinion. I had a list of points collected while reading the article, some of which have been mentioned above, but I'll append below the full list as it may be useful. Good luck with your exams and keep safe. No Great Shaker (talk) 05:18, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Background

Needs an inline citation after the first sentence as it expresses an opinion (I realise it will be the same one for the whole paragraph).
Sava was not respected among the Montenegrins and did little actual ruling. This would be better if expressed actively instead of passively and "actual ruling" doesn't sit well in the context. Try something like: The Montenegrins had little respect for Sava who was an idle ruler.
Even if this identification would be correct, it would not completely solve the mystery as it would still remain unclear why Baljevic would chose to travel to Montenegro in particular. Four instances of "would" in one sentence. Try: Even if this identification was proved to be correct, it would not completely solve the mystery as it is not known why Baljevic should go to Montenegro.

Rise to power

Amend his arrival to the town of Maine. Should be arrival at or arrival in.
Amend created a rumor that he was Tsar Peter III, having escaped into exile. Try: created a rumor that he was Tsar Peter III, who had escaped into exile.
Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending with "the would-be Tsar gave the people around him". I would also insert a paragraph break at this point to separate the generic discussion of the rumour from the more specific instances which follow.
Replace "swirling" with "circulating". Rumours don't swirl.
Replace "compelling" with "urging" as he didn't have actual authority at that time.
Refusing to personally either confirm or deny whether he was Peter III or not, he signed the document with... is somewhat convoluted. Better to make it into an active expression: He personally refused to confirm or deny whether he was Peter III or not, and signed the document with...
Needs an inline citation after the "good unto the good" quotation.
Correct "feauding".
Change "dissatisfactory" to "unsatisfactory" or, to emphasise his reaction, "unacceptable".
Change despite at one point having met the real Peter III to despite having once met the real Peter III.
Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending with "they agreed to uphold the perpetual peace".
There are two instances of "Stephen" in the third paragraph.
Ignoring that the town was within Venetian territory, the chieftains of the Montenegrin clans then travelled to Maine and paid grateful homage to Stephen. Despite still refusing to confirm or deny the suspicion that he was Peter III, Stephen was by this point regarded to be the deposed Russian Tsar by a majority of Montenegro. These two sentences need revision. The majority of Montenegrins now believed that he was Peter III and their clan chieftains went to Maine, although it was still in Venetian territory, and paid homage to him. The citation after the next sentence covers both.
Insert a paragraph break before: "In early February 1768" as time has moved on.
In April, he moved his residence to the principality and began living there permanently. This is the only mention of a principality. What and where was it?
Without ever openly confirming whether this was the case. Change to: Without ever openly confirming or denying the truth of this claim.
Change unite the often infighting people to unite the people.
He had done much more than limit the authority of the traditional Montenegrin leader figure because he had ended the rule of Sava. The construction "traditional Montenegrin leader figure" is awkward and out of context. Best to concentrate on what Sava's actual role was.

Rule in Montenegro

Change "tribes" to "clans" as everywhere else in the article.
Change the otherwise infighting tribes of Montenegro achieved a level of peace and unity that had never existed before to the usual infighting among the Montenegrin clans subsided. The result was a level of peace and unity that had never existed before.
There records of officials and diplomats in Vienna doesn't make sense.

Russian reaction

Needs an inline citation after the "whether Peter III is dead or alive, for if he is alive, then he is verily in Montenegro" quotation.
Obreskov replied the same day, writing should be followed by a colon to introduce the quotation.
Obreskov added that should be followed by a colon to introduce the quotation.
Needs an inline citation after the "impostor and vagabond" quotation.
Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending "to cover such a possibility".
Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending "to send emissaries to Russia".
Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending "reached Vienna".
Amend wrote to Catherine on 20 February that "Not content... to wrote to Catherine on 20 February, saying: "Not content...
Amend reading "it is possible... to reading: "it is possible...
Needs an inline citation after the "tempted to enter our borders" quotation.
"Vienne" to "Vienna".
Another attempt was made through sending Avakum Milakovic. Change "made through sending" to "made by sending".
Amend emissaries, by now convinced by the Russians of to emissaries, whom the Russians had convinced of.
Upon having learnt of the fraud. Change to: Having learned of the fraud.
Change to return to Montenegro to reveal the truth" to to return to Montenegro and reveal the truth.
Change and he also learnt that Montenegro was now at war to and he learned that Montenegro was at war.

Attempted Ottoman invasion

Change "moved in on" to "invaded".
Place a full stop after "the prospect of the Ottoman invasion" to complete a sentence there.
Begin the next sentence with: The Montenegrin clans, united under...
Change "thereafter" to "afterwards".

Dolgorukov's mission to Montenegro

Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending "alongside the Russian invasion forces".
Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending "Balkan Slavs recruited in Italy".
Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending "and he spoke rapidly".
He was immediately surmised to look nothing like a Russian Tsar, being described as dressing in "Greek style" (wearing a white silk tunic, a red cap on his head which he never takes off and carrying a Turkish pipe). Sentence needs to be revised and split. Begin by saying: "The sources immediately thought he looked nothing like a Russian Tsar". They described him as dressed in the "Greek style" – he wore a white silk tunic, a red cap on his head which he never took off and carried a Turkish pipe.
Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending "a chain from which a pouch containing an icon hung".
Start a new paragraph after that sentence.
Needs an inline citation after the "conclude nothing" quotation.
Correct "respectfull".
Dolgorukov had provoked a volatile situation which he only had limited control over. Amend to Dolgorukov had provoked a volatile situation over which he had limited control.
Change "he thus preceded to Cetinje" to "he proceeded to Cetinje".
Two key figures were notably absent; Prince-Bishop Sava... Replace the semi-colon with a colon as you are introducing a list.
Correct "the sound of gunshots five in the morning on the next day".
Šcepan arrived at the monastery by the capital where Dolgorukov was staying, together with his mounted guards, and the Montenegrins who had just the previous day seen Šcepan exposed as an impostor and had formally sworn loyalty to Catherine the Great greeted Šcepan with joy and followed him. This sentence is too long and should be split. Words like "just" are unnecessary in this context. Šcepan and his mounted guards arrived at the monastery where Dolgorukov was staying near the capital. Although the Montenegrins seen him exposed as an impostor and had formally sworn loyalty to Catherine the Great, they greeted him with joy and followed him.
Had Šcepan completely avoided the meeting, he would have lost the trust of the Montenegrin people and he had thus decided to play a hero and return to assert his rule. Also too long. Šcepan would have lost the trust of the Montenegrin people if he had avoided the meeting. He decided to play the hero and returned to assert his rule.
Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending "assert his rule".

Imprisonment and reinstatement

Needs an inline citation after the "small on Earth" quotation.
To this, Šcepan replied that he had never actually personally claimed to be Peter. Word order. To this, Šcepan replied that he personally had never actually claimed to be Peter.
Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending "far from an honest answer". It is an opinion.
Change "implored" to "impelled".
Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending "it was obvious that this was a lie". Another opinion.
Change would have killed Šcepan unless Dolgorukov's entourage had intervened to would have killed Šcepan if Dolgorukov's entourage had not intervened.
Change "deal with" to "handle", "manage" or "perform". Needs a citation here too, and a paragraph break.
Citation and paragraph break after "Dolgorukov agreed".
Remove "An extraordinary decision," and start a new paragraph here with a citation after the sentence ending "ruler of Montenegro".
Change "the incompetent and Venice-aligned Sava" to "the incompetent Sava, who was allied to Venice". Add a citation and full stop at this point to start a new sentence.
Begin the new sentence with "Dolgorukov had realised that..."
Change "Šcepan had actually showed competence" to "Šcepan had shown competence".
What does "clifft shore" mean?
Dolgorukov later recalled in his memoirs that "I would truly have fallen into the abyss had not Šcepan Mali, who was accustomed to such places, virtually carried me in his arms". Needs a colon after "that" and a citation at the end for the quotation.

Later rule and death

Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending "possibly the main reason for the lack of a campaign". It is an opinion.
It comes as something of a surprise to find that he was seriously disabled and half-blinded by the land mine accident. This should be mentioned in the lead.
Change "according to himself due to wanting to..." which is not good English. Probably best to split the sentence and rewrite the second.
Šcepan constructed a building which he meant to serve as the headquarters of the Russian army. He did not do this personally. Šcepan ordered the construction of a building which was meant to serve as the headquarters of the Russian army.
A Venetian report from October 1771 read that "He has been promising them..." Again, a colon is needed to introduce the quotation.
Explain "nearly retired". Was he about to retire but did not do so, or did he in fact retire for nearly a year?
After a series of failed negotiations, war broke out once more between the Ottomans and Russia and as the sole independent bastion of Orthodoxy in the Balkans, Russia once more became interested in Montenegro. Split into two sentences and convert the latter to read: Russia again became interested in Montenegro as the sole independent bastion of Orthodoxy in the Balkans.
Comma after "In October".
Amend "Sergeant Major" to "sergeant major" and link. Also, he is a sergeant major in the Russian army, not of.
Needs an inline citation after the sentence ending "follow their ruler".
Šcepan called to a meeting is poor English. He called a meeting.
That meeting was of "nobles and people" but in the next sentence he called "such popular assemblies twenty-five times". A popular assembly precludes nobility so some explanation is needed here about the meetings in terms of attendees and intentions.
The word "infighting" appears for the fifth time. This was described in the background section and does not need to be repeated whenever the clans are mentioned. That applies throughout.
The clause succeeding through them in bringing to infighting clans of Montenegro to realizing their common needs is bad English and must be rewritten to make it understandable.
Clarify "monks who conspired to get new church leaders". The problem word is "get". Did the monks try to reorganise the church or to assassinate members of high clergy?
Šcepan successfully made peace with Venice and succeeding in keeping that peace... Past tense.
The word "actually" occurs 13 times and is nearly always unnecessary, as in the last paragraph of this section.

Legacy

How many is "a handful of important marks"?
Remove "bizarre". Change start of sentence to Šcepan's story is sometimes invoked...
Zannowich's book is a mysterious and bizarre publication in of itself. This needs attribution and "in of itself" is bad grammar.
Needs several inline citations in the second paragraph to source everything about Zannowich.
Titled the Der Montenegrinerhäuptling ("The Montenegrin Chief"), imagined Šcepan as a Venetian officer". Needs "it imagined".

@No Great Shaker: I've worked through the issues you listed (very nice of you to go through the article despite realising that it needed a lot of amendments by the way). Do you think it needs to go through a copy-edit by the GOCE as well or should I just go ahead and re-nominate? Ichthyovenator (talk) 18:25, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ichthyovenator, I think GOCE might be worthwhile, but it's up to you. If you feel confident, though, and given you do need another review anyway, I think I would re-nominate. Good luck. No Great Shaker (talk) 22:00, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@No Great Shaker: Yeah, I've renominated then :) Worst that could happen is that it fails again. Ichthyovenator (talk) 23:00, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]