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Requested edit

[edit]

Eww, eww, ewwwww... get rid of that long-winded message. It looks horrible in context. It shunts the timestamp and editor – the parts you actually need to see – right off into the other corner of the screen. Also, there's already a "current version" link right below this message, and there's a message in the footer (where this sort of disclaimer belongs) on old revisions that says almost exactly the same thing, only in more detail – Qxz 20:17, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I found this through looking through an archive, and then doing a text search at Special:Allmessages upon finding this text, and I agree with Qxz. And perhaps we might want to take a look at this, an "article" that may not contain inaccuracies or errors, but is nonetheless obtrusive and excessive. We don't have disclaimer messages on articles, and while this certainly applies to current revisions, it should also apply to past ones. GracenotesT § 20:23, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, that's a point... realistically, the current version of an article is just as likely to contain inaccuracies and errors as any other version. Yet we don't put a big disclaimer at the top of every page, because it would look stupid. Same applies here – Qxz 23:45, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Also, avoid the wording "archived version". People might confuse it with talk archives, and furthermore it's completely unnecessary. If you see a page with the words "Revision as of... " followed by a date in the past, it's obvious that you're viewing an old version. Finally, an argument for binning all changes to this message and going back to how it was – it's just plain wrong. Try viewing the current version of a page, and you're told it's an archived version that may contain errors not in the current version. This message is more misleading than it is useful – Qxz 23:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

...you folks should probably go to Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Viewing old revisions. I personally like it, although it could be changed to sound less diclaimer-y. The term "archived version" is entirely appropriate for people unfamiliar with Wikipedia culture and unfamiliar with the MediaWiki interface -- i.e. basically the large audience who just reads and uses, but does not contribute to, Wikipedia. And that is why, arguably, the message is entirely appropriate. --Iamunknown 06:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"archived" was a deliberate choice - the message is intended for readers, not editors. If you can thik of a more elegant way of saying "we're keeping this old version around on file in case it proves useful to refer to", please do. Shimgray | talk | 20:53, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I've gone ahead and been bold, making one word big and red, and adding "vandalism" to the list. While I agree with some of the concerns and points raised above, this should, at least for now, be temporary - we're having some problems with people emailing previous versions of an inaccurate page, and this should help make it obvious to those people that this isn't the current page version. Thanks for your understanding! Flcelloguy (A note?) 14:59, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's still invisible. How about
<big><span style="color: red">This is an old version of this page from $1. It may contain problems not present in the <a href="/wiki/{{FULLPAGENAME}}" title="{{FULLPAGENAME}}">current version</a>.</span></big>
Which would look like the following:
This is an old version of this page from 20:33, 14 March 2007. It may contain problems not present in the current version.
--Carnildo 17:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I like your suggestion. It's less disclaimer-y, more noticeable, and is entirely appropriate. --Iamunknown 18:22, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
But is rather anoying when you spend a lot of time looking at old revsions and doesn't exactly encourage people to revert vandalism that is in the existing current version.Geni 19:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
What about something like:
This is an older version of this page from 20:33, 14 March 2007. It may differ significantly from the current version.
That way, we're not suggesting that the older version is vandalized, or has problems - it may well be the case that the older version is better than the current one. --Ckatzchatspy 19:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'm pleased to see finally putting the idea into practice got a debate going! For what it's worth, what I originally planned was something akin to MediaWiki:Editingold with plain text inside, but I never got around to putting the box in place... what do people think of this?
I strongly feel that some kind of clear, visible, message is needed; as it was, the small grey text was virtually invisible unless you knew the MediaWiki UI enough to be expecting it, and nothing else would indicate - if you've just stumbled across this page from an external link - that this was an old revision of the page. It's not really an attempt at a "Wikipedia content" disclaimer - having it worded so not as to sound like one would be nice - since it isn't imposed with regard to any worries about the specific content; think of it as more of an interface message from MediaWiki, to remind readers that this is not the live version. Shimgray | talk | 20:53, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Drop the red text. rember if I want to reduce the chances a click through viewer will see it that is fairly trivial to do:
see.Geni 20:58, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
We need something to differentiate the header from the rest of the mass of text on the page. Red text might be overkill, but making it larger than the rest would help. --Carnildo 22:51, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hence my fondness for a "message box" style display - it's clearly metadata, clearly directed at the reader, and clearly prominent. Editors can, if they so wish, happily modify their CSS to not show it or to anull the effect. Shimgray | talk | 00:47, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The current text says that an "archived" version of an article might contain errors -which is true, of course - and that these errors might not be present in the current version. That's also true, but it also leaves the impression that the current versions of our articles aren't as vandalism-prone as the archived ones. Could we find a wording that doesn't create this false impression? --Conti|✉ 21:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aarrgh! Who added that big red text! GET RID OF IT! – Qxz 22:55, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
And another thing you're forgetting, this message shows up on the current version if you view it in oldid mode. Then all the junk you've added to this message is COMPLETELY WRONG – Qxz 22:56, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Qxz, please consider that using all capital letters and categorically qualifying the text as "junk" may not add significantly to the discussion but may instead serve to add unnecessary intensity to it. --Iamunknown 23:44, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I was hoping that this text was more friendly and less obtrusive. I'm sure that I could find consensus for this opinion somewhere... [Gracenotes looks up] GracenotesT § 00:58, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
...--Iamunknown 00:59, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Admonishing me for using capital letters while trying to get <big><span style="color: red"> removed from an interface message... hmmm... – Qxz 01:02, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I should probably note at this point that if you use <big><span style="color: red">, CSS will become sad. If anything, <span style="color:red; font-size:%120;"> is better, if anything. GracenotesT § 01:06, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Exactly! And yet which is being used at the moment? Go view the source and see for yourself. I'd make an {{editprotected}} request, but... my original one is still there, so I can't really – Qxz 01:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I frankly have absolutely no idea what is going on in these past five/six-or-so posts. My ellipses were merely an expression of confusion. --Iamunknown 01:08, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well, what's happening right now is I'm pointing out that not only does the message look horrible, it's also using outdated markup; it should be using CSS like the rest of the interface, not <big> and <font> – Qxz 01:14, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, showing up on current-revision is conceptually a bit flaky, but it's hard to get around this problem - I guess if we referred to "subsequent versions" you could claim it means "any versions as yet unwritten"! (It also appears to be an edge case - people sometimes generate the current version to cite it, but usually by the time a reader follows that link, there have been subsequent edits. Very few people will generate the current version of an article and then start reading it...) Can we do something whereby it checks if there is a later revision and if not suppresses the note, or replaces it with "This is the most recent version of the page Revision-info, revised at [etc]" with cunning hackery, or would it require a MediaWiki patch to enable this? There must be something elegant going on in the background we could adapt, as it's able to determine the next and previous links and grey them out in inappropriate - modify this to alter the displayed text? Might be a bit beyond the immediate scope here... Shimgray | talk | 00:47, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hmmm... I don't think we can just shunt it aside and claim "people don't do it very often", given that we have a link in the sidebar on every page dedicated to doing just that. Also, if you have to invent non-existent versions of an article in order to make your argument stick, I think there's a flaw somewhere :) – Qxz 01:04, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Now I see why admins want to wheel war. And of course, that they shouldn't :) Could we please make this notice, if it absolutely has to be included, as inconspicuous as possible? I would also appreciate if those that advocate the longer message actually explain their reasoning for doing so. GracenotesT § 01:04, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Somebody please revert these changes, they look silly. Matthew 08:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New thread: let's start fresh with ideas

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I agree that the message probably should not be a disclaimer. The current message fails to indicate that both the old revision and the current revision of any page may contain "vandalism, inaccuracies or errors." I think that the message should be there for the benefit of readers and users unfamiliar with the MediaWiki interface. As such, it should not be "as inconspicuous as possible," but should be just as conspicuous enough to be noticed and useful and no more conspicuous than that. Is there a way other than using red text (CSS, of course) to do that? I personally like Ckat's version. Let me copy it (slightly modified) here.

<span style="color: #F00; font-size: 120%;">This is an old version of this page from $1. It may differ significantly from the <a href="/wiki/{{FULLPAGENAME}}" title="{{FULLPAGENAME}}">current version</a>.</span>

That would render as

This is an old version of this page from 20:33, 14 March 2007. It may differ significantly from the MediaWiki:Revision-info.

Of course, editors have expressed that the colour red is too conspicuous. Are there any, however, any other suggestions? --Iamunknown 01:25, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What happened to the second variable? I actually use that to track revisions. Of course, if we want to paint the template red, that's one thing, but removing useful functionality is another. My compromise: create a help page explaining searching through revisions, and link to it using the same formatting that was there before this MediaWiki page was created. Don't be verbose. For God's sake, use variables $1 and $2. That's all. GracenotesT § 01:36, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The audience for this message is casual browsers: people who have been given a link to a page and haven't a clue that it isn't the current version. --Carnildo 02:13, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The rest of us, however, also have to put up with seeing the message every time we view an old revision. You could say "well, go customize your CSS then"; however, if the interface is designed in such a way that a significant number of experienced contributors find it so annoying they have to customize it, then we're doing something wrong.
How about putting the message back exactly as it was – same colour, same font size – except add "This is not the current version of the page (more info)" at the beginning of it. Then create a page with as much explanation as you think is needed (personally, I understood old revisions the first time I saw one, but there we go). Would that be acceptable? – Qxz 04:26, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Between the size and the font color, the original version is completely invisible to people who aren't looking for it. --Carnildo 05:07, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please, please reduce the size - the current version is

WAY TOO BIG!!!

It's wrapping on a 19" monitor... bigger is not necessarily better. --Ckatzchatspy 05:51, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, please do. At least reduce the font size back to that of normal text; (i.e. the same size as what I'm typing now) – that's quite big enough to be visible. Also, lose the lines top and bottom. The top one clashes with the line under the page title – Qxz 07:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Remove "from Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"?

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I'm sure this'll turn some heads; why not remove this text? With the message as it currently stands (though, when you read this the link MAY NOT BE THE CURRENT VERSION OF THE PAGE - you have been warned) the two messages seem to clash somewhat. Not sure how that would be done, something along the lines of "if(revision-info)=yes then(wikipedia)=no". Bah. I'm no programmer — Jack · talk · 05:03, Saturday, 17 March 2007

In fact - why is "from Wikipedia.." displayed on any page but the article namespace? Seems odd that the site would be proud to show off a bit of code or a talk page — Jack · talk · 05:04, Saturday, 17 March 2007
It is better that way and easier. Cbrown1023 talk 02:26, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

How about this

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This is a stored version of this page, dated $1. It may differ significantly from the current version.
Revision as of $1 by $2

In this version, the warning-style message can be hidden and a plain text version (just how it used to display) can be displayed instead by adding the following to one's custom CSS: 

 #viewingold-warning { display:none; }
 #viewingold-plain { display:block; }

The warning-style version, which is displayed by default, is styled the same way as MediaWiki:Editingold, the message that appears when one edits an old revision, in order to be consistent. The warning doesn't reference problems or errors, it just says that the revision may "differ significantly", an approach that seems to be preferred currently. Additionally, the info about the date of the revision and the editor is shown on a separate line since some people have found it difficult to locate this information. --bainer (talk) 06:44, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A bit big and pink, but actually better than the current version; the extra-big font looks awful – Qxz 07:49, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I'd say this is better too. The consistency helps, and the smaller font size is much more pleasant. --Ckatzchatspy 08:14, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The meaning of "stored version" is probably not clear to people unfamiliar with how page histories work. Would "old version" or something else be more understandable? --Cherry blossom tree 11:32, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The custom CSS modification is a great idea. Let's definitely implement it (although, if possible, make the text smaller). And of course people might have no idea what "stored version" is, but that's why there's a link. Come now. GracenotesT § 14:23, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The problem isn't that they might be forced to click the link, but that they might make incorrect assumptions about what it means and not click the link. Is "there's a link" really a compelling reason to use unnecessarily confusing language? --Cherry blossom tree 15:25, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You know, there's a link to Help:Page history on the history page itself. If people don't understand it, and don't find the link, it's really too bad. Now, the notice is (in my subjective opinion) verbose already, and as we discussed earlier, "old revision" is not always true. "Archived" or "stored" is technically correct, and saying anything other than a synonym of those may be simpler, but incorrect. I don't think that we should sacrifice truth for clarify. Page history is complicated.
In addition, I would appreciate it if you gave an example of one way people could misunderstand the text "stored revision". And also keep in mind that some people just don't get it, and will email the OTRS anyway. (The OTRS is the only reason why I'm supporting a notice different than the one that previously existed.) This will probably bring the complainers down, but just like people dying, there's no way to bring to number to zero. GracenotesT § 17:09, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
My main problem was people who do not come to the old revision via the history. There was some discussion a few days ago about people vandalising pages and sending out links to the vandalised version, which we couldn't change. I want it to be clear (whether people understand how page histories work or not) that the version they are seeing is not the current one.
I hadn't seen the discussion over 'old version' possibly being misleading and I take the point. My problem with 'stored version' is that it doesn't suggest to the uneducated reader that it is not necessarily the current version. I appreciate that the second sentence does this, but I'd like ti to be as clear as possible and my experience shows that a significant number of people won't read the second sentence. I prefer the current 'archived version' wording for this reason (I don't see the problem with regard to talk page archives.) Of course, the ideal solution would be to have a different message come up on the current revision so our language could be both simple and accurate. --Cherry blossom tree 11:47, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Recent update (March 17) viewed in Cologne Blue skin

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http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=MediaWiki:Revision-info&oldid=115731697&useskin=cologneblue

The current version with the larger font/line spacing looks really terrible with Cologne Blue. Unless there is better solution, I'd revert it to the previous version. -- User:Docu

Nothing special about Cologne Blue... it looks bad in all the skins – Qxz 07:51, 17 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Which is why I changed it to something nicer. It needs to stand out more though. Prodego talk 02:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How about just how it is now, but with black-colored text instead of gray. Thanks for changing it; I disliked the larger text. WODUP 02:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I used gray because it is the same color used for other subheaders - Special:Whatlinkshere, for example. I do think it needs to be noticeable, but can we make it less ugly? Any other suggestions anyone? Prodego talk 02:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Grey has the disadvantage that it is invisible. --Carnildo 04:40, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's all well and good in theory, but let's actually see what happens to the OTRS. GracenotesT § 04:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Requested CSS edit

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A lot has changed since the first edit request, so I'm moving the template. Could we merely append 

<div id="viewingold-plain" style="display:none;">Revision as of $1 by $2</div>

To the end of the template, so that 

#div.viewingold-warning { display:none; }
#div.viewingold-plain { display:block !important ; }

Will get the regular version in place for us simple folk? And also possibly add a link to this MediaWiki talk page with instructions about how to achieve that effect, but... nah, it's probably not worth it. GracenotesT § 04:43, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've altered the page as outlined above at #How about this. The version I've changed to will allow people who don't like the warning-style version of the message to hide it, and replace it with the "old" version, as you have mentioned. --bainer (talk) 05:09, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I saw that discussion, although it sort of changed focus, so I wanted to make a new edit request to actually implement it. Thanks! GracenotesT § 14:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
When I use this, I still see the big red bar. When I use
 #viewingold-warning { display:none; }
 #viewingold-plain { display:block; }
from MediaWiki talk:Revision-info#How about this, I get nothing. Will Revision as of $1 by $2 display properly if we remove style="display:none; from -plain? WODUP 17:48, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Make sure to add the !important (shown earlier in this section.) This will limit cascading, which is what you want. Gracenotes' left sock 19:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, thank you! WODUP 19:16, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New version

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I, for one, preferred it the way it was before (without the red box). It was pretty obvious to me that you were viewing a past version of a page. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 05:18, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I think the big red box is too big and too noticeable. WODUP 06:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
As mentioned in a couple of places above, you can hide it and replace it with the old version by adding the following to your custom CSS (see Help:User style for more info on this process). --bainer (talk) 09:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
 #div.viewingold-warning { display:none; }
 #div.viewingold-plain { display:block !important ; }
I just realised that I made a mistake and used the CSS selector for CSS classes and not element IDs :( But I've fixed all the references on this page. Adding the CSS code immediately above to your custom CSS will work, I use it myself and it works fine. --bainer (talk) 10:00, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
One of the reasons I supported the CSS hack was because I was happy enough with the regular version :( Not that I'm complaining about it... but still, consensus is consensus. GracenotesT § 14:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Using a CSS hack to change it for your own style isn't sufficient-- it's ugly for everyone now, and unless they know to come to a random-ass MediaWiki page, they won't know how to change it back. So, while I appreciate the backwards-compatibility, I still think it should be changed back, for everyone. And having two or three people agree with you on a Village Pump page (which is the "consensus" that I found by perusing the links on this talk page-- there might be wider discussion somewhere else that I haven't found) about a feature that everyone uses every day is not consensus. Your change may be well-intended, as I expect it is, but it needs to go-- or at least, have wider discussion before implementation. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 15:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The red box looks pretty bad when editing old revisons(example). Prodego talk 14:08, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If there were some way to combine the two boxes when doing so, it'd look better... —Disavian (talk/contribs) 15:09, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Making is not display while in editing screens would do that, not sure where to make that change though. — xaosflux Talk 15:44, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That would require js hacks. Prodego talk 19:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sandbox?

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Good morning; I appreciate you are trying to improve this function, but I was just looking at a prior revision and there were three different "This is an old revision" notices at the top. Could you please settle on one design, or take this to the sandbox. It is disrupting the encyclopedia.

Thanks a lot guys, and keep up the great work.

Kind regards,
anthonycfc [talk] 05:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The problem is that you can't see what a sandbox would look like at the top of the page. Prodego talk 14:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I think that it would be great to merge the "Revision as of $1 by $2" and the top notice, because there's verbosity, then there's accuracy, then there's aesthetics, then there's simplicity, then there's... this is complicated for a stupid MediaWiki page :) GracenotesT § 14:39, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hm. Actually seeing the current version in action (even with the red box), it looks okay, although I think that we can remove the $1 from the first paragraph. GracenotesT § 15:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reasons for making this message stand out

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I've noticed a few people on here saying things to the effect of "ew, the red is ugly, let's make this more discreet and less noticeable". There's a reason we're trying to make it stand out.

In the last few months, there has been a trend for people to vandalise articles, then email large numbers of people (including members of the press) the link to that (vandalised) revision of the article, as though it was a link to the current article. We get piles of emails to OTRS from concerned people demanding to know why we're allowing the obviously defamatory etc. material to remain in our article. Sure, we had a notice before that explained it, but people are stupid and don't read things like that.

By making the "this is an old, possibly vandalised, revision" notice stand out as much as possible, we hope to stop this sort of thing from happening in future. Aesthetics are a secondary concern. The primary concern is making people see it and read it before anything else on the page. - Mark 15:03, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What brought me to this conversation? It is ugly! Maybe it will work though, I've changed it again, removing duplicated information in the header, inlcuding all the extra line breaks, but left the horrific color in place :) — xaosflux Talk 15:46, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Although I understand the "form over function" philosophy, may I suggest a "form before function" approach? In other words, once the technical details have been worked out, could we work to pick a different hue? Perhaps one which is much less abrasive? --Aarktica 22:38, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

.js hack

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I've hesitated to bring this up, because it's an ugly .js hack the relies heavily on CSS and other MediaWiki elements, but am anyway, just because I don't think that it's fair to not throw the option into the open. Here may be a way to check if the revision is the current one: 

if (document.getElementById('mw-revision-nav') != undefined) {
  var ifCur = document.getElementById('mw-revision-nav').getElementsByTagName('a')[2];
  
  if (!(ifCur && ifCur.firstChild.nodeValue == 'Current revision')) {
    var revName = document.getElementById('mw-revision-name').innerHTML;
    var revDate = document.getElementById('mw-revision-date').firstChild.nodeValue;

    document.getElementById('mw-revision-info').firstChild.innerHTML = 'This is the current version of this page. The most recent edit was made by ' + revName + ' on ' + revDate;
  }
}

This would go in MediaWiki:Common.js, if it works. Although, we definitely need to replace one instance of $1 with <span id="mw-revision-date">$1</span>, and one instance of $2 with <span id="mw-revision-name">$2</span>. It may be incorrect, but I can't test it, although if someone added the span ids (which can't hurt), I would be able to. GracenotesT § 15:42, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wizardman (talk · contribs) just added the span ids, and I can confirm that the js code works in Firefox. Although, I'm not sure how IE deals with nodes and the DOM... GracenotesT § 16:33, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
If people want, actually, we can use De Morgan's laws and replace (!(ifCur && ifCur.firstChild.nodeValue == 'Current revision')) with (!ifCur || ifCur.firstChild.nodeValue != 'Current revision'), since the latter is what I had originally. But it doesn't make a difference, really. GracenotesT § 16:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Hint: If we've reached the stage where we're discussing applying De Morgan's laws to a snippet of JavaScript in an interface message, we went wrong somewhere – Qxz 19:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Lol. Or we could just put in a bug request. Now, I haven't programmed javascript in about five years, so suddenly using innerHTML is evil. Or at least that's what AzaToth told me :) So this may be better, based on what I wrote in a sandbox somewhere else that he improved (with his knowledge of efficient javascript, and the like):

--GracenotesT § 20:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Browser compatibility

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Not sure where the flaw is, but when I view this in Internet Explorer the box and coloring are absent. The wording is there though. It appears ok in Firefox. In Lynx both sets of messages are displayed. — xaosflux Talk 16:14, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Why are people implementing god stupid notices? The previous was perfectly fine. --Matthew
Because they feel the need to be 'helpful' to inexperienced users, while ignoring the needs of the rest of us :) – Qxz 19:19, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Actually it relates to the large amount of email OTRS receives in which an old revision is mistaken for the current one. Prodego talk 19:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
It's the IE6 shading bug, where in IE6 the background of shaded divs, etc., sometimes doesn't show up for no particularly good reason. It happens to me with the border of <pre> blocks and in many other shaded messages to. --ais523 11:30, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Request - minor change in the wording

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Currently, the text reads as follows:

"...as edited by 86.138.91.133 (Talk) as of 12:45, 18 March 2007."

It would read better if presented as follows:

"...as edited by 86.138.91.133 (Talk) at 12:45 on 18 March 2007."

(The bold/italic text is for emphasis here only, not for the actual message. It might also be worth adding the time zone, since some lists are as per preferences and some are based on UTC.) --Ckatzchatspy 19:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's would be nice, but it's impossible, since the $1 variable comes directly from the PHP and is thus embedded in the HTML. It correlates to the user's preferences with dates. As always, we could make the text into the latter with javascript, but that seems a bit too much for merely a language fix. GracenotesT § 20:55, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Well you could append something to the end. BTW, I just found this. Deja vu. Prodego talk 21:21, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe you could feed it into the #time parser function like this: as of 12:45 on 18 March 2007? --Tgr 10:19, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On a totally different note, shouldn't the first {{FULLPAGENAME}} be {{FULLPAGENAMEE}}? --Tgr 10:27, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pink box needs to be removed

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Let's please revert back to how things were a few days ago. While I support improving Wikipedia interface, please work out bugs and refine the implementation on a test wiki elsewhere.

Two critical flaws with the pink box.

  1. When I go into edit mode for a previous version of a page, I see two pink boxes that are largely redundant. The other one says "You are editing a prior version of this page. If you save it, any changes made since this version will be removed." which I think is sufficient. The two boxes are extremely obnoxious.
  2. Second critical flaw with the pink "archived version" box is that it displays on "current version" too. The pink box displayed when you are viewing an older version of a page also appears when you are viewing the current version (if you pick the last version from the history page), such as this [1]. This really isn't appropriate to display and may be confusing to some people when they are in fact looking at the current version.
This is an archived version of this page, as edited by Octalswiki (Talk | contribs | block) as of 13:52, 18 March 2007. It may differ significantly from the current version.

I strongly suggest reverting back to how we had things a few days ago, until time that something is developed that does not have these two critical flaws, and addresses any other problems with it. --Aude (talk) 22:02, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is anyone here? working on this? Maybe the developers can come up with something that makes the implementation of the notice look more clean and professional, and not show up when you are looking at the current version of the page or in edit mode. For now, we need to go back to how we had this a few days ago. --Aude (talk) 22:20, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
*crickets chirp* —Disavian (talk/contribs) 22:24, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Both have been discussed above, and both were true (minus the pink part) on the old version. Prodego talk 22:25, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
How about something like this version [2], without the pink box. The text can be made a darker grey to be more obvious. I think the pink box only makes these flaws too obvious and annoying. --Aude (talk) 22:28, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Note: I submitted a bug report (of okayish quality) here... GracenotesT § 22:35, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
That's very helpful. I don't think it would be all that difficult for them to implement it. --Aude (talk) 22:37, 18 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Oh devs, no rush, but... GracenotesT § 13:35, 27 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well it's gone, but where did it go? — xaosflux Talk 00:32, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Err, what is gone? All looks the same to me, unless I am missing something. Prodego talk 02:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
When editing the current version (history-->most recent version-->edit) the boxes don't show up. When editing past versions, both boxes show up. Not much, if anything, has changed. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 02:21, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
I could be wrong, but I think it was always that way. Point 1 was that you see two boxes when editing old versions (as you said), but the second point was that when using "Permanent link" you see the "archived version" box [3]. Prodego talk 02:24, 9 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Problem fixed

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{{editprotected}}

Now, MediaWiki:Revision-info-current can be used for permanent links for current revisions of a page (example), so the wording of this template can be made less ambiguous. Would anyone object if an admin replaced "archived" with "old"? GracenotesT § 04:36, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Nope. Done. Neil ╦ 11:30, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Margin

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{{editprotected}}

Reduce the top margin of the box to 1em. 2em is excessive and leaves a large gap above the box. Other messages that appear in the same place (protected page notice, long page notice, talk page notice) all have a 1em margin. Thanks – Gurch 06:48, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

 Done — xaosflux Talk 08:26, 25 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal for update

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Resolved.

Currently, when I go through articles history, I often have to see how an article has improved since a certain date; but there is no easy way to do so using the existing message. (I.e. I have to insert "&diff=curr" in the address bar) Is it possible to update the message to read as follow (Without it having the external link icon, of course)? G.A.Stalk 06:23, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by [editor] at [date]. It may differ significantly from [link to the current revision].

→Discussion to be continued at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#MediaWiki:Revision-info. G.A.Stalk 14:52, 18 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This seems to have been resolved by the devs. The MediaWiki software now shows "Current revision (diff)" below the box, and that "diff" is between the old version you are looking at, and the latest version. Since G.A.S didn't see that when he asked this, I guess it was added later.
--David Göthberg (talk) 09:09, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Standardised styles

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A discussion to standardise the styles for boxes of this kind has been started at Template talk:Fmbox#New type?.

--David Göthberg (talk) 12:47, 25 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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{{editprotected}}
The latest version of this messages contains a self-link in "[[{{FULLPAGENAME}}|the current revision]]". It should be replaced with "[{{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}}} the current revision]". iAlex (Talk) 07:58, 24 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Done—I also added <span class="plainlinks"> and </span> around the link, and moved "the" out of the link so as to be consistent with the earlier "old revision" link. {{Nihiltres|talk|log}} 15:14, 25 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Technical note: That <span class="plainlinks"></span> is not needed, since this message box uses {{fmbox}} that already uses the plainlinks class. But it also doesn't cause any problems to use it an extra time like this.
--David Göthberg (talk) 09:20, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, I see. It's useful to know that {{fmbox}} uses plainlinks. :) {{Nihiltres|talk|log}} 15:01, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

CSS id change

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This is just to explain and document why and how I am doing this change. No action needed from anyone else.

I am planning to change the CSS ids used in MediaWiki:Revision-info and MediaWiki:Revision-info-current, to be in line with how we do for other such messages. Currently both use "id=viewingold-warning". I will change them to use "id=revision-info" and "id=revision-info-current" respectively. Thus making it possible to detect and handle these messages separately, when using CSS or JavaScript.

I will also change the name of the ids for the "plain" versions from "id=viewingold-plain" to "id=revision-info-plain" and "id=revision-info-current-plain" respectively.

I will update the /monobook.css files for the six users that currently use these ids, thus they should not see any difference.

And while I am at it: Since this is just a simple box with no image, I will change from using {{fmbox}} to instead use the more efficient <div class="fmbox-warning"></div>. (At the time we deployed {{fmbox}} here that class was not available.) This will cause a slight decrease in margins and padding in some browsers since some of them treat margins and paddings differently in tables and divs.

--David Göthberg (talk) 05:55, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ouch, using the div version caused grey text. I have found the cause, but will have to think a while how to best fix it. So we have to use {{fmbox}} for now.
--David Göthberg (talk) 07:12, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Protected edit request on 13 June 2014

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To reflect changes to the software, please replace the page with the following:

Jackmcbarn (talk) 01:05, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Done, tested, working. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:18, 13 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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I intend to change the text to read:

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by $2 at $1$7. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

This will help educate editors about how to use fancy stuff like old revision URLs while also helping to match the text at MediaWiki:Revision-info-current. If you have any comments or concerns, please make them in the next day'ish. Jason Quinn (talk) 05:28, 30 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good to me — xaosflux Talk 05:41, 30 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Jason Quinn (talk) 18:41, 9 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

propose edit to clarify about replacement content

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It's unclear to editors viewing old revisions, at least of articles, that replacement content, such as templates and images, would not be of old contemporary revisions but are of the latest revisions. I propose adding a sentence like "[t]emplates are present-day revisions, not necessarily those in use at the time of this page's revision." The link to Help:Permanent link appears in the linking text's context to be about URLs although it happens to cover this point, so it would not be followed by an editor, who instead would see a template and misunderstand which template revision is being viewed. I discussed this at VP(T), where disagreement was expressed. If agreement is reached, since I apparently don't have the authority to edit the box, perhaps someone else can. Nick Levinson (talk) 00:59, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Seems too wordy, try some mock up of what the entire version you are proposing may look at and list below for comparison.. — xaosflux Talk 01:36, 5 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Here they are:
Presently in use:
Proposed:
Nick Levinson (talk) 20:03, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

request to add revision ID

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I found myself wanting to make a link to a revision in history, and was aware of Special:Diff. It would be logical—contextually relevant—to provide the revision ID number in the text of this message so that it can be copied or referred to. It is after all a user-facing aspect of MediaWiki, if indirectly, through link mechanisms like Special:Diff, and thus to have to copy a piece of the URL is hardly ideal. (The current-revision message would be similarly altered.) As simple as adding "The revision ID is nnnnnnnn." to the end of the current text. Thoughts? [p[User:Outriggr|Outriggr]] (talk) 23:41, 25 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Outriggr: when you navigate to an old version the &oldid=nnnn should be right at the end of your URL already. It could be added here, and the variable for it is $3, but I'm not seeing how it will help over the URL text. — xaosflux Talk 01:45, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
My point was that having to resort to copying the trailing text of a URL (and think of mobile, which also uses this message I believe) for a piece of information that is sometimes relevant to the front-end use of the site is not ideal design. I think this would gain support in a broader forum where people reiterate the annoying substring-of-a-URL grabbing process by which they currently have to construct something like "Special:Diff/nnnnnn". Outriggr (talk) 01:55, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Feel free to mock up a new message below and open an edit request. — xaosflux Talk 02:00, 26 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Proposal: make this sticky, so that it remains as you scroll down the page

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Tracked in Phabricator
Task T250929

It seems others above have identified the potential abuse case where someone vandalises a page, then links to that revision. But what if someone vandalises, then links to a specific section, so that the page automatically scrolls down below the notice? I think the solution is to make the notice persistent, so that it remains at the top of your screen even as you scroll.

As a side note, I think the message is probably also due for a design revamp. It'd be good to add a yellow caution symbol as a visual cue, and to add a header saying "Old revision" in larger font so that people don't have to start reading all the details about "as edited by..." etc. to get the main message. (I'm not sure if this page is the repository for the message's visual design; if it's not, could you point me to the right spot?) {{u|Sdkb}} talk 18:45, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Sdkb: that suggestion seems like it should be done in the software, not as something only here at enwiki. You can file a feature request here. — xaosflux Talk 20:08, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
 Done. Let me know if I messed up the feature request or need to add any tags to it. {{u|Sdkb}} talk 21:03, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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