Help talk:Media (audio and video)/Archives/2013

Just asking: why OGG?

I am not here to insult people who use linux or criticise a particular codec: I am just interested as to why Wikipedia uses such an obscure file format for audio.
After a file not playing at all on a perfectly useable computer, i.e a 2011 Mac Mini with 8GB of ram and an intel core i7, running the latest version of mac OSX, I decided to look at the media help page. It describes ogg vorbis files as being playable on almost all computers, which in my opinion is compete and utter nonsense. Mac OSX and Windows do not support OGG by default, and therefore require specialist software. Although we are told about this, the average wikipedia user (ie me) simply doesn't have the time or maybe simply can't be bothered to install extra software. This, I'm afraid, makes ordinary users feel slightly thick, if you will please excuse my minor insult to Wikipedians there.
My question is, Whilst I agree that OGGs sound much better than mp3s and take up less disk space (and therefore cost less to store and distribute etc...), it simply doesn't make sense to use them on Wikipedia as PCs running mac os or windows can't support them by default, which is therefore inconveniencing those users by making them install software and plugins.
Additionally, I recognise that MP3 and AAC are patented codecs, but isn't the restriction on MP3 running out soon anyway? (in the next couple of years I believe)
Just as a suggestion, you could include two download options: one for the ogg file for linux users, and one with the mp3 for everyone else.
Unlike most people on here, I'm not actually stupid in this area: I use my computer for a lot of sound recording type stuff, so I have experience with problematic OGG Files, such as people emailing them to me and them not working on my computer.
I don't think the most realistic solution is to force software upon people who may not necessarily know what they are doing. I know mp3 is more proprietary and everything, but it seems to make more sense to me to use it.
It's not as though windows and mac os are popular OSes or anything, so there's no need to worry...
Most of the pictures on wikipedia are jpegs. that's a patented, restricted format. why not go with PNGs if you are really that obsessed with being free?Ahretrop (talk) 09:26, 13 April 2013 (UTC)

JPEG is not patented. As for MP3, "restriction on MP3 running out soon anyway? (in the next couple of years)" logically means the patents still apply, therefore MP3 simply cannot be used on Wikipedia for the next couple of years. Furthermore, Ogg/Vorbis is supported by default in Firefox, Chrome and Opera (which, as of 2013, are used by the majority of users), no need to install any plugins. For the minority of people using Internet Explorer or Safari, they can either complain to Microsoft or Apple (who don't support Ogg only for their own "strategic reasons", to keep collecting money for their own patent-encumbered formats), use a better browser (which is available for any major OS), or use a plugin. It's their choice. If someone decides to use IE or Safari, they cannot complain to Wikipedia.—J. M. (talk) 05:28, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Linux user?Ahretrop (talk) 15:09, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm a Mac user on Mountain lion. I use Firefox and occasionally Chrome. Both support Ogg by default. Regards, Sun Creator^(talk) 21:04, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

As a Mac user and donator to Wikipedia, you would have to ask the question what is the point donating to Wikipedia just to have some of the funds given to Apple, just because Apple are not supporting Ogg? It would be rather crazy. A sensible way forward would be to contact Apple (https://www.apple.com/contact/) and let them know you want them to support Ogg. Regards, Sun Creator^(talk) 21:09, 14 April 2013 (UTC)

Not sure if this is the right page, but...

Can anyone help me figure out whether a sound recording is in the public domain? I'd really like to include a vocal recording at Barcarolle (Offenbach) rather than the synthesized version currently included, but am having trouble figuring out whether this recording, for instance, is in the public domain due to its age. The piece itself is of course public domain. –Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 19:59, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Call to revisit "ogg" as a standard format

Please note that even the Wikimedia Foundation, in the banners that are running at the top of wikipedia as of this writing, has even chosen a more accessible format: [1] By doing so, the video plays inline with the current page, or can easily be expanded to a full screen, with software widely available and even standard in most browsers. What would it take to move Wikipedia away from ogg and to a more accessible format?Cander0000 (talk) 07:37, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

That's a link to external media rather then hosting it on Wikipedia. A move to a none open format would be against the third part of the WP:FIVEPILLARS. It could also be potentially expensive and no Creative commons license would be possible. Would donators be happy that Wikipedia funds where going to license media? Also you'd still have the same issue of compatibility as there is no universally accepted media type for sound and videos unlike jpg/png for pictures; Apple, Microsoft and Google promote there own media type and are not compatible with other vendors without some additional software. Even Youtube (arguably the most widespread) is not supported out of the box by Apple for example and Apple users have to install additional software(Flash player) to get Youtube to work. Regards, Sun Creator^(talk) 02:51, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Youtube does not equal Flash. It is currently testing other formats as part of its HTML5 trial. Any user with a newer browser can sign up here: http://www.youtube.com/html5 and see the videos in either WebM or h.264 depending upon the browser. I think this is done with cookies, so it needs to be done once per machine/account.173.55.221.10 (talk) 15:35, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

So just to clarify, YouTube does use flash, but if you have an appropriate browser then you can instead via an opt-in trial use html5 for some YouTube videos. Regards, Sun Creator^(talk) 21:38, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

ogg file shows something like a caption

Please check out File:Open-mid front unrounded vowel.ogg When playing, it showsa caption in the box saying "E (Greek Alphabet Eta)". How did it get there, and better: how to get it away? The greek letter mentioned is ɛ which is indeed the IPA symbol for this sound. -DePiep (talk) 15:13, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

iOS

What about iOS users?! gujamin (talk) 17:30, 21 November 2010 (UTC) indeed. html5?81.187.45.71 (talk) 23:34, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

One possibility is the Wikipanion app from Robert Chin. If this is a workable solution, it might be useful to add an "iOS" or "iOS devices" section to the project page. -- Elegie (talk) 07:24, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Indeed, pull request to replace "not supported" with that.24.24.168.181 (talk) 10:32, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the Wikipanion app plays most ogg files on iPad. So, would someone make note of that solution for iOS, please? GeoFan49 (talk) 20:40, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Now VLC is ported to iOS and can play OGG files. Please add the note to help page, at last! 77.123.160.59 (talk) 18:31, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

Does anyone know how Wikipanion manages to play ogg files on an iPad? CzechOut ☎ | ✍ 01:04, 2 November 2013 (UTC)