File talk:Eurovision winners map.svg

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Frequently asked questions

Q1: Why does this map show Germany as having separate wins, when in fact they have won twice in 1982 and 2010?

A1: Prior to the German reunification of 1990, Germany was divided in two - German Democratic Republic (commonly known as East Germany) and the Federal Republic of Germany (commonly known as West Germany). The European Broadcasting Union records show that only the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany) participated in the Eurovision Song Contest prior to the reunification. Thus the win in 1982 (which happened before 1990) is shown as being credited to the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany). The win of 2010 happened after the reunification, and therefore is shown on the map as being a win for the reunified nation. A footnote is included on all article's that use this map to provide explanation of this factor.

Glitch in map

Hello, when on the main Eurovision Winners page, Sweden appears to have won four times, however when you click the image to load it up on full, it states that it has correctly won five. Just informing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cathairawr (talk • contribs) 14:54, 27 May 2012 (UTC) Never mind, all is sorted now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cathairawr (talk • contribs) 15:07, 27 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Germany and West Germany

Map is wrong! Germany one once in 1982 (Nicole - Ein bisschen Frieden), and according to map it never one! See the inset, West Germany is highlighted. --DannyBoy20802 (talk) 23:35, 9 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That could be made more clear, maybe with an arrow and a rectangle towards the region of the inset that is magnified (or rather, taken back in time). Oh, but there never was any nation called "West Germany". It was the Federal Republic of Germany who won, and now the Federal Republic of Germany is the entire thing. The map is wrong. Greswik (talk) 00:23, 21 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I fixed it. --Wok lok (talk) 08:59, 30 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think the map is actually wrong. West Germany is highlighted as having won 1 and Germany as having won 2, This seems to imply 3 total victories. Could this be graphically clarified? I think Germany as shown today should only be shown as winning 1 - Highfields (talk, contribs) 15:37, 30 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Only show Yugoslavia in the small map, that solves the problem.-78.48.140.255 (talk) 17:30, 30 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. The Federal Republic of Germany won twice, so delete Germany in the small map. I don't know how to treat Yugoslavia.58.91.154.49 (talk) 23:31, 30 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

And I think this is symbolic for the German idiom "Die Mauer in den Köpfen" (the Wall remains in the minds). It's of no help to keep Germany before and after the wall fell separate. Germany (aka Federal Republic of G.) has won twice. The country borders were altered, that happend elsewhere too. You're taking political correctness about a mile too far. No offence. Dcutter (talk) 19:40, 30 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This map is inconsequent too: Algeria was part of France until Juli 1962 (see also: ). So France won only two times after that date and three times before....i hope, now you see, how stupid the current situation of the map is...--78.48.250.105 (talk) 15:33, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It seems someone is reverting from right to wrong here, now Germany is wrong again - they have now won twice. There is no need for this "Western Germany" -thing. About Algeria: well, I do think it makes sense to not see them as a part of France. Actually, the logic is the same: let's just mark the countries based on their current borders. As Yugoslavia is now gone, they should have a small box mentioning their only win. The logic is the same: no nation is now Yugoslavia, ergo, box. Greswik (talk) 13:42, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The current German state is the same as West Germany. East Germany ceased to exist in 1990, West Germany did not — East Germany was annexed to the Federal Republic of Germany, and since then it is just called Germany instead of West Germany but it is still the same. Just as the USA was the same after the Louisiana purchase or the Alaskan statehood. Therefor, the map needs to be changed. John Anderson (talk) 12:14, 4 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, the discussion is academic and wrong to the average watcher. Fact is that Germany is legally the same as ist was 1982. This is indicated by the usage of this graphics in the WP ESC pages for country wins ( http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anexo:Ganadores_del_Festival_de_la_Canci%C3%B3n_de_Eurovisi%C3%B3n ). ALL these lists list Germany with 2 wins. The logic difference to yougoslavia is the use of yougoslavia as seperate legal entity in the country lists, while there is NO seperate legal entity to seperate the 1982 win of Germany from the one 2010 in the tables. Hence, eigher fix this in the graphic reflecting 2 wins for Germany as it is today, or fix the listing tables in the use pages to 1 win for each seperate political entity from 1982 and 2010. But the later is NOT possible as there are no seperate political entities!

Its this simple to argue that it needs to be 2 wins in the grafic too and just leave the insert map just for yogaslavia only.217.229.224.34 (talk) 09:03, 8 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Both German wins where by the Federal Republic of Germany and by the ARD broadcasting network - territorial changes of the Federal Republic of Germany in 1990 did not turn it into a new separate country. 91.89.242.173 (talk) 11:23, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Both German wins where by the Federal Republic of Germany and by the ARD broadcasting network - territorial changes of the Federal Republic of Germany in 1990 did not turn it into a new separate country.12:37, 10 May 2014 (UTC)~ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.89.242.173 (talk)

If West Germany never existed, then why the hell was there a fecking massive brick wall splitting Germany into East and West. Someone's not been doing their homework. Wes Mᴥuse 12:41, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed. You, in this case: There never was a state called "West Germany". In the decades the ESC existed, there only was the Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic. One of the two won two ESCs, the other (and only the other) no longer exists.79.223.19.149 (talk) 23:43, 22 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In 1949 the Federal Republic of Germany and the German Democratic Republic have been founded.
in 1990 the German Democratic Republic stop existing (it's territory became part of the Federal Republic of Germany)
The Federal Republic of Germany still exists today 91.89.242.173 (talk) 07:59, 11 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Is this map still wrong? If it's not fixed in a week I'm going to fix it and replace it myself! The consensus is clearly that it's wrong and offensive to show an insert with Germany's former extent and not recognise their two wins, contrary to the article it accompanies. Simonmetcalf (talk) 09:54, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Full clarification on the Germany issue

The map is not wrong, in actual fact the map is depicting the national boundaries of Germany in accordance to their chronological era, which is also in line with Wikipedia policies that must be adhered to. Before the German reunification, Germany as a country was divided in two - German Democratic Republic (commonly known as East Germany) and the Federal Republic of Germany (commonly known as West Germany). People say there was no West Germany, which while one could agree, one could also disagree; purely for the fact the term "West Germany" was only a common English term (a bit like a nickname) for the country; likewise for East Germany.

As the reunification of the two did not occur until 1990, and the fact that it is known that German Democratic Republic (or East Germany) never competed in the Eurovision Song Contest. Meant that using the power of logical deduction, the win in 1982 can only have been for Federal Republic of Germany (or West Germany). This win is depicted on the map showing the win for "Federal Republic of Germany (or West Germany)" in the map's insert. The win in 2010 happened after the reunification, thus the one win is highlighted for the reunified Germany. So even though Germany technically has 2 wins, in reality (because of the political boundaries that are a historical fact) we have to show the two as being separate, whilst including a note to explain this fact (which the article itself does include this information.

Hopefully this addresses all concerns and explains why the map has been designed the way it is. Wes Mᴥuse 15:00, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

the map is wrong because it does show the Federal Republic of Germany as having it won only once (in the big picture) but

the Federal Republic of Germany has won it twice!12:34, 7 August 2014 (UTC)12:34, 7 August 2014 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.172.96.95 (talk)

Wesley Mouse, what I don't understand is that Germany is threated this way, while France is not. France has lost territory when Algeria gained independence, but all its 5 wins are treated as one entity. What is different with Germany that gained territory? In my opinion, this is inconsistent. Dinsdagskind (talk) 09:38, 9 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Mouse, why don't you press for re-sectioning the Crimea? 79.223.19.149 (talk) 23:44, 22 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Inset Map

Would it not be better to remove the inset map, and make the countries involved (Germany and Yugoslavia) mixed shaded? ie. dashed lines representing one and two wins (see china on this map http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Football_world_popularity.png) Esc luver (talk) 01:23, 15 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I totally agree with you... Today's Germany is the same as West Germany, it officially bears the same name "Federal Republic of Germany", so it cannot be considered as a newly established state; East Germany is the one which ceased to exist after it's reunification with the West one. My point is that former West German territory just expanded eastward but the country never ceased to exist after it's reunification in 1990. So on the map Germany should be purple.

Change colours to logical sequence

Just about to update the map with the 2014 results but noticed that the colours don't seem to form a logical sequence, e.g. the purple representing 2 wins appears much more prominent than others. Any objections to my changing them from blue to red (in increasing order)? cmɢʟee⎆τaʟκ 23:38, 10 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Clearly no objections, LOL. But I must say, I do like the new colour sequence, it is more appealing to the eye. Well done! Wes Mᴥuse 15:38, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]