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Map talk

As per the main article, there are reports of ground fighting and shelling in the Salaheddine district. This would indicate that at least the red arrow from Salaheddine to Saif-al-Dawla is no longer current, and IMO Salaheddine should be orange. Also, the regular army offensive on Arkoub is depicted as coming from Hamdaniya, which itself is marked as disputed (orange). This is not logical, the arrow should either be removed or reoriented to originate from Hanano army base (makes more sense anyway). Again, this is according to the article. You may dispute the validity of the facts presented there, but you cannot dispute that the map needs to correspond to the article. - WhoEver109 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.202.5.160 (talk) 05:53, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Bustan al-Quasayr & other minor changes

It seems fighting has reached a new static line since the failed rebel offensive, and the failed military counterattack. I suggest we make Bustan al-Quasayr green and remove the red arrow, since there are no reports of fighting, but the military is still shelling the district and neighouring Fardous, meaning there are rebel fighters there. Also, we should mark the Citadel area as disputed, since the Free Syrian Army controls some part of the Souk and attacked the Omayyad Mosque twice last week. I don't know anything about the fighting in Shaar, but it seems the FSA is still on control, as fighting has not spread further east towards Hanano and Sakhour. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.24.43.183 (talk) 11:32, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Since Bustan al-Quasayr is still being shelled it means there are still rebels there so its still disputed. The area around the Citadel is, per the last reports, still under military control. Its the Souk, that is several hundred meters away, that is disputed. Mosque is under military control, a disputed area has already been colored right next to it. EkoGraf (talk) 13:33, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

New clashes

24 november 2012 http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=957678&tid=95994 Region Sheikh Said is cleared from rebels. Not sure about correct name - source is in russian language. Rebels attacked anti aircraft base near Allepo. Still fights arround Layramount crossroad and Bani Yazid. In Bustan al Kasr, Sukkari and Han Tuman - again fights. May be because we have to use small labels to have place for more details. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.84.86.14 (talk) 08:38, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

Salahedinne

Yep, its one of these threads. Anyway according to this source [1] it is a frontline at least partially controlled by rebels. Frontline is on Sharaa Street, but damn me if I have any idea where it may be. Point is - not regime controlled. At least not fully. EllsworthSK (talk) 01:04, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

That source only shows that there are some clashes in the district. The last report from an AFP reporter on the ground from early October had the whole district under government control. Future did his edit properly by only putting the eastern part of Salahadine contested, not the whole district. And I think that is a proper compromise solution. EkoGraf (talk) 18:36, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

I'll have to disagree here. Source clearly states that at least some part of Salahedinne (not saying how much, though) is under rebel control, not just source of clashes.

for Salahadeen is part of the front line of a battle for Aleppo

AFP report may be not actual anymore, this one is latest from there and contradicts the situation which was there one and half month ago. Again, it is part of the frontline and since source does not says that only eastern side we have to work with what we've got. EllsworthSK (talk) 12:33, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Here is a picture of what is allegedly a pro-rebel rally in Salaheddine. Do we know anything of the most recent reliable news from here? ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 17:24, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Situation in western Aleppo.

Many clashes are reported on western aleppo. army base , air defense base these important places are targeted. Should we put them to unclear? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amedjay (talk • contribs) 20:12, 25 November 2012 (UTC)

8/12 correction needed

The Syrian Army units were able to mop-up Bustan al-Basha area totally in Aleppo city.

A security source stated to Breaking News Network that the Syrian Army has annihilated the militants and snipers in the area.

The field source from the Raids branch added that the area of Bustan al-Basha is under the control of the Syrian Army.

Bustan al-Basha still has occasional fighting, so it is not yet red, should remain olive. The Syrian Arab Army does advance there now, due to the Kurdish Neutrality bloc in Sheikh Maqsoud area of Aleppo city. One should not easily believe every report that the area is under full control. The major roads and parts are, but in some side streets still armed insurgents of FSA and the Al-Nusra Islamist Front of Salafists are fighting themselves until death.NiederlandeFW (talk) 11:07, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Past discussion moved from FutureTrillionaire's talk page

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

This was the discussion from my talk page a while ago. If want to request new changes to the map, please open new sections below.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 16:09, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

---

September updates

You didn't quite finish it - shave off everything west of military research center, as that is all rural area too. Also don't forget to make midan district and the Zahra district (http://in.news.yahoo.com/photos/syrian-regime-soldiers-seen-near-scientific-research-centre-photo-162019090.html) orange (contested) Sopher99 (talk) 23:50, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

Hope you don't mind Future, I reverted that last edit to the map back to your previous version. Because, per the video source itself that Sopher provided it says that the rebels are hitting the area with mortar rounds, from a distance, no mention of ground/street fighting in Zahraa itself, no mention of the rebels making a ground attempt to capture Zahraa or the Army base. So the previous image of a rebel advance arrow on the edge of Zahraa was ok, but not an advance into the district itself. Because if we would have to color all areas that are being shelled by ether side, where there is no actual ground fighting, than we would have to color all rebel areas as contested due to the constant artillery fire. So in my opinion the previous version was the good one. As for Midan, all sources, including AFP, Reuters and CNN confirm Midan being under military control and fighting shifting to the adjacent Suleiman Arkub district. What sources are reporting is that on occasion sniper fire is being reported in Midan, which is understandable in an urban battle and not really what you could call real ground fighting making the area contested. Contested territories should only be those where there is open street fighting, snipers can always go behind enemy lines and make harassing attacks. Otherwise everything else you did looks extremely great and you did great work on the map, keep it up! :) EkoGraf (talk) 02:58, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

The new source I7Laseral provided shows a rebel attack on a military post in New Aleppo, I looked all over the net but haven't been able to find any more sources reporting on fighting in New Aleppo, so we have only one source for that. And the source does not make any mention of Zahraa. Anyway, it should probably be reflected on the map but not in the way it is now. I think what you should do is color as contested/unclear the areas between the military research center and the Army base, not the northern areas of Zahraa, no info found for fighting in that area. I hope you can mark the areas between those two government bases as contested/unclear. EkoGraf (talk) 12:37, 24 September 2012 (UTC)

SOHR today made a report that there is ground fighting in the Sukari district [2], also here are a few other sources confirming the military has a presence and is engaged with the rebels in that district for at least the last month [3][4] So it should be colored as contested/unclear, with an arrow showing an attempted military advance into it. I think, based on the map, the advance is probably coming from the government-held Hamdaniya district. EkoGraf (talk) 17:36, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello! Saif al Dawla district is being attacked by FSA, so the red Syrian army arrow should be changed by the green FSA arrow. Actually, in Al Hamdaniya is taking place a batlle too. Iza, Halab al Yadida and Al Sabil are also under atacck, but I dont know if this distric appears on your awesome map =) [5] [6] --83.52.216.65 (talk) 18:40, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello! Hamdaniya is next to the military academy (lower left corner)--Wiki erudito (talk) 19:48, 27 September 2012 (UTC) PS: Midan is also under attack, so the red line should be deleted and the quarter colored in orange.--Wiki erudito (talk) 20:41, 27 September 2012 (UTC) .

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Hello, as you said Wiki Erutido, Hamdaniya this southern New Aleppo([7], in fact you have marked on the map xD About Izza, but I could not locate it in a story I read a few weeks ago I was in the north of Aleppo. Greetings.--Emiliokun5 (talk) 21:30, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello! Seems that rebels are attacking the Kurdish area, and more news over here. Esn (talk) 09:45, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Also, is it possible to use a lighter shade of orange for the contested areas? The colour looks very similar to the regime-controlled areas, at least on my monitor. Esn (talk) 09:55, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Hello! I told you about clashes in Hamdaniya, but you marked Hamidiya (anyway, Hamidiya is also under attack, but you should also color Hamdaniya). Moreover, there are being clashes in Sheikh Maqsoud (kurdish area) and in Halab al Qadima, Al Izaa, Al Arkub,Halab al Yadida, Al Sabil, and Al Kura al Ardiya, but I dont know if this 6 districts appear on your map. I did not send you references because they are in Spanish, but if you want them I can give them to you. --Wiki erudito (talk) 15:07, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Don't forget the Suleimani area (was in Syrian army control - now rebels fighting) I7laseral (talk) 15:01, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Scratch that. You got it. I7laseral (talk) 15:04, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

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Hello again, apparently all Salaheddine also under rebel attack[8], so it should be changed to disputed (and incidentally extend the arrow rebel)Besides the rebels also advanced in Sukari, so you should add an arrow in that direction rebel. Sorry for the reference in Spanish but that's my native language.

PD: Saladino = Salaheddine--Emiliokun5 (talk) 19:13, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Negative on Salaheddine. Same source [9] that reported the rebels attacked Salaheddine quoted rebel commanders saying they had to retreat from Salaheddine later. So, at the moment, Salaheddine not being contested. As for Hamdaniya, I would wait until tomorrow when the situation becomes more clearer. Because, in order to reach Hamdaniya, the rebels would have had to capture Saif al-Dawla, Sukari and Salaheddine first. So hold of on that one until more info comes tomorrow. EkoGraf (talk) 20:57, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

But it very well could be an attack from rural areas, and the front is not very clear. Although I think you can wait. PS: The historic center is under attack, reporting fires.[10]--Emiliokun5 (talk) 11:55, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Your maps on Syria, particularly Aleppo, are quite detailed I would however like to suggest a change in colours. I keep confusing Green with Gaddafi and hence loyalists/government, might I suggest:

• red for the Government areas;
• another colour (than orange) for contested/unclear; and
• possibly yellow arrows for Kurdish movements given the clashes with the rebels?

Otherwise thank you for your maps. cjblair 11:01 WST, 29 September 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cjblair (talk • contribs) 13:01, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Sukari (bottom center) and Salahedine (bottom left) are under attack of the FSA. You should add green arrows. Here the reference. Is in spanish, so I´m going to tell exactly where does this information appear:

"En el frente de Saladino (suroeste) hemos tomado bases del ejército regular" Means the rebels have captured a military base in Salahedine "Mandos rebeldes afirmaron haber avanzado en los barrios de As Sukari " Rebels commands say the have advanced in the district of as Sukari --Wiki erudito (talk) 13:19, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

I think you should mark as disputed the entire area of historic center, according to this source[11] the fire zone adjacent to the citadel, which clearly implies that fighting district-wide. Here is the quote: "That market also abuts the Citadel and the gates of Bab al Nasr and Bab Antakya, which are important archaeological sites in Aleppo, "--Emiliokun5 (talk) 16:29, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

October updates

Can you show the rebels moving towards the city center? Just as a suggestion perhaps the area around the city council to orange? Thanks otherwise for your hard work. cjblair 20:45 WST, 2 October 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cjblair (talk • contribs) 12:45, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Could you color only the eastern part of Salahaddine as contested? Because the sources on-hand have not talked about fighting in the whole district. Clashes have been taking place in the last few days only in areas bordering rebel territory. EkoGraf (talk) 15:48, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

I repeat, the entire old city is under rebel attack (in fact this claim to control 90% of the area), you must check the entire area, in so many parts out there are pretty clear that fighting in the citadel. PS: The Spanish sources say they are still fighting in Salahedine and the rebels have advanced, same for Sukari, but it's your decision. --Emiliokun5 (talk) 17:35, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

This is from the NYT (sept 29): [12] "Activists said that antigovernment fighters had tried to put out the fire, but that it was difficult because of government snipers in the area, who activists have said set up positions in the city’s 13th-century citadel, which overlooks the souk." The government still controls the citadel and its surroundings, so I'd wait until there are reports of clashes at the citadel. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 17:44, 3 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks very much for changing the colour for the contested areas, it is much easier to distinguish from the government-controlled territory now! (by the way, if the two colours didn't seem similar to you, perhaps it could be your monitor or even some form of colour-blindness that was causing you to see the colours differently from other people...) Esn (talk) 05:42, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

The newest info from the article has a government source as saying that Sakhour and Slaiman al-Halabi districts have been "cleansed" by government forces.[13] So perhaps label the Slaiman al-Halabi district and change it and Sakhour to "contested"? (if the rebels also confirm that they've been overrun, they can be changed to red) Esn (talk) 19:36, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

A few sources saying that rebels have retreated from Sakhour (or Sahhur) district, as well as nearby Shaar: [14] [15]. So perhaps add a green arrow moving away from those districts? Those regime-friendly sources also say that fighting is continuing around the old city (I'd cite rebel-friendly sources too, but I haven't been able to find a summary of recent events from them). Esn (talk) 05:55, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

The army has been in control of Sulaiman al-Halabi for some time now and have moved on to the Sakhour roundabout and bridge. They control that and are attempting to move into Sakhour at. The Rebels are fighting back and trying to regain the roundabout. They're not in a position to attack or contest Sulaiman Al-Halabi from the east. 62.31.145.100 (talk) 15:46, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Hmm.. do you have a source for that? According to this report from Oct. 2 [16], fighting in that neighborhood was still ongoing. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:55, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Well here's what I got that is Wikipedia worthy.

This picture was taken on the 5th after the battles with rebels in Suliman Al-Halabi. It shows the Syrian Army in the area. http://www.reuters.com/article/slideshow/idUSBRE88J0X720121006#a=12

This is the fighting that happened at the roundabout on the 6th http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4-TOm2No0M&feature=g-u-u

Here's the AP story on the CBC website http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/10/06/syria-turkey.html

Here is an article on the 7th about the rebels stopping an army incursion into the Sakhour district http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/syrian-rebels-reportedly-capture-president-bashar-assad-s-cousin-1.468579

This is a video released today by the rebels of their attempts to gain back the area. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZIob0D5dz0&feature=g-u-u

The roundabout and the bridge are located here http://wikimapia.org/#lat=36.2131177&lon=37.1809165&z=15&l=0&m=b 62.31.145.100 (talk) 18:06, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

I think that you should color the Hamidiya area back to red (government controlled) for two reasons. First, the only report of fighting in Hamidiya was back on September 28 (around the time the rebel offensive started) when the FSA said Hamidiya was one of the points of their attack. Since than there have been no new reports of fighting in Hamidiya and most sources describe the offensive as stalled (in other words no gains). Second reason, report from yesterday per locals [17] says the Army and the rebels are clashing on the border between Arqub (which is east from Hamidiya) and Bab al-Hadid (which is even further east) with the Army trying to advance into Bab al-Hadid to push them from the barracks. To get to Hamidiya the FSA would have to get through Arqub first, and if what the locals say is true than it seems Arqub is at the moment also government-controlled and the frontline is on the border of Arqub and Bab al-Hadid. So best course of action would be to color Hamidiya red and the western half of Arqub red (since there is fighting on the eastern border of Arqub). EkoGraf (talk) 19:28, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

 Done However, I'm not entirely sure where Bab al-Hadid is. Wikimapia says it's the intersection southwest of Hanano base, not a neighborhood. The AP story from IP says that Sakhour roundabout is under Army control. Again, not sure where that is. I'm guessing it's either the one between Sakhour and Shaar or the one between Sakhour and Midan.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 21:34, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

If its the roundabout that the IP pointed out on the Wikimap, than its the roundabout on the intersection of Arqub, Sakhour and Shaar...not Midan. That actually makes sense when taking into account the report the Army has taken Arqub, they would than be trying to push more eastwards. EkoGraf (talk) 00:46, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

This discussion should definitely be centralised on the Commons talkpage for the map, as was done for all the Libyan maps. Right now, it isn't immediately obvious where the changes are coming from as they're made, and it will make suggesting map changes a more publicly-accessible activity. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 04:34, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

By "centralised", I meant "move this over there" and not "redirected here", but I guess I'll take what I can get. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 13:47, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Your previous edit has been further confirmed Future, here [18][19], government troops conducting operations in the Kharm al-Gabar area. That is most likely the district called Kharm al-Jabar on the wikimap [20]. It's the area, you colored contested, where the government advance arrow comes from Hamidiya. With the government presence now confirmed in Kharm al-Gabar/Jabar, that may confirm somewhat the previous report they captured the roundabout because it is just in the northeastern corner of Kharm, per the wikimap. Although there is the possibility that they only captured the western part of Kharm, since its just across the street from Arqub and haven't arrived to the roundabout yet. EkoGraf (talk) 17:06, 9 October 2012 (UTC)

Found a source which explicetly says which districts are government controlled, which are rebel controlled and which are contested. Here it is [21]. It confirms the previous report by AFP that at least the northern half of Saif al-Dawla is government-controlled (rest still being contested) and that the government captured Arqub. Also Sakhur roundabout has been captured (intersection of Arqub, Shaar and Sakhour). It also confirms Salahadine, Midan and Izaa (tv station) being under government control and explicetly says that the fighting that has been reported there has only been on the edges of the districts (border areas between government- and rebel-held districts) thus the districts themselves are not in fact being contested. I think that, per the source, the Salahadine, Midan, Arqoub and Izaa districts should be colored as government controlled, but with arrows from both rebel and government areas pointing at eachother in the border areas to indicate fighting on the edges of those districts. Also the government advance to the Sakhour roundabout should be noted as well. EkoGraf (talk) 17:07, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

 Done -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 17:37, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Wow you be fast. :D Hehe. Nicely done. :) Lets hope we get more of those kinds of sources. EkoGraf (talk) 17:43, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

i agree and disagree with you EkoGrak in some points ,don't only take government claims or one news source use many other news sources and be sure, because i saw contradict claims salahedine must be put back contested.Alhanuty (talk) 18:40, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Its a combination of multiple sources, and I never take into account government claims of capture. For example, an AFP reporter who was on the ground said the Army controlled the upper half of Saif al-Dawla, the al-akhbar source was a secondary confirmation by saying most of it was military-controlled. As for Salahadine, I haven't seen any sources to confirm any kind of fighting for control of the district itself in the last week, except possibly on the edges of that area, which does not make Salahadine contested since skirmishes in border areas of territories is normal. The source you added in the article today, for which you said reports on Salahadine being recaptured by the rebels, does not actually make any mention of Salahadine. I read it. If indeed it did happen, other reliable sources would also report it, which hasn't happened. Latest report by SOHR from today [22] makes mention of clashes in multiple districts, but no mention of Salahadine. EkoGraf (talk) 13:47, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

i will find a better source for it.Alhanuty (talk) 21:18, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Great job in mapping the city. As of Kurdish Maqud area i dont see any source the last days of any kind of fighting there. It seems that Kurds are controlling totally the area. Read some random shelling but nothing more.(As for SANA as a source of ground control, i think that is totally confirmed in its previous reports once again,other sources admit army gains after some days if you see our previous discussions) --Dimitrish81 (talk) 23:54, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

 Done Kurdish districts no longer marked as contested. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 23:58, 12 October 2012 (UTC)

Latest news (see article) say that the airport east of Aleppo has been captured by rebels but that they may be getting ready to retreat in the face of bombing by planes. At the very least, it should be marked as contested now. Esn (talk) 00:47, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

It's referring to an air-defense base, not the airport. The air defense base is east of the city and off my map, so there isn't much I can do about that. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 00:49, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Correct Future. Its an air defense base not an airport and is not in a map. Video footage show some SA3 SAM missiles in permanent positions and some trucks with Scud missiles. According to rebel claims to BBC, the site was immediately bombed by the Syrian Air-Force with the total destructions of its radars and missiles... Being useless rebels were getting ready to leave it.--Dimitrish81 (talk) 01:12, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Also the source to justify the unchange in the map speaks of a kurdish death in a checkpoint in 28 September, however the news is uploaded in kurdwatch on October the 10th....--Dimitrish81 (talk) 01:20, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/10/13/243494.html AP is reporting that Dar al-Shifa hospital is only 400-500 meters from the front line, does this help with the map? (Cjblair (talk) 11:07, 13 October 2012 (UTC))

the Umayyad mosque has been captured by rebels . --Alhanuty (talk) 21:01, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

More October updates

the rebels has captured suliman al halabi and most of al midan with al arqoub contested,please future millionaire add this to the map as quick as possible Alhanuty (talk) 15:45, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Do you have sources?-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:48, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

http://www.aljazeera.net/news/pages/4930cf5d-cf97-428a-adab-49bbe7a8767c here is the source futuremillionaire. --Alhanuty (talk) 01:57, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

 Partly done -I've colored Sulieman as contested/unclear. I can't read Arabic, and this is the latest source I can find about Sulieman: [23]. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 03:22, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

the source says that suliman al halabi and al midan are under rebel con trol with al arqoub contested.--Alhanuty (talk) 13:42, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Fighting reported in Salaheddine, Izaa, and Old City: AJE. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 12:32, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

 Done -I colored Izaa and eastern Salaheddine as contested. Usually if the news don't mention the Great Mosque, then fighting is probably just happening in the western part of the Old City. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 14:14, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

I tweaked the Old City front so that the southern part of the district is also contested. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:04, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Midan Fighting. Also you can chenge Kallaseh back to just plain green, as no fighting has been reported there for a while. I7laseral (talk) 03:00, 23 October 2012 (UTC) http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2012/Oct-22/192290-syria-rebels-pounded-clashes-in-damascus-aleppo.ashx#ixzz2A1CgUQp5

 Done -By the way, what was your concern about the Old City front? I didn't quite understand. Was the label "Old City" not placed in the right spot?-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 03:21, 23 October 2012 (UTC)

Syrian rebels seize Kurdish Ashrafiyeh district. [24] Mark it as either green or contested, I guess? Esn (talk) 11:40, 25 October 2012 (UTC) This has happened during their last offensive I suggest FutureTrillionaire mark it as contested around the Ashrafiyeh district to that wonderfully detailed map of his. (Cjblair (talk) 12:46, 25 October 2012 (UTC))

Something very very very very unusual has happened today. Both the Syrian army and the PKK made an usual retreat from most of Aleppo. yes thats right - the entire Aleppo center and all its Christian neighborhoods, as well as the PKK contorlled districts have been taken by the FSA with hardly any battle. Very weird, but it happened 1-2 hours ago.

So far news from Ashrafiyeh has made it http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/2012/10/25/04/31/syria-most-rebels-agree-to-truce Sopher99 (talk) 12:18, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=36.2271699&lon=37.133758&z=16&l=0&m=b&search=Aleppo "The Ammohallab military post"

I'll keep updating you as news starts to trickle in. Rebels in Zakur (Zahur) district http://news.am/eng/news/126130.html

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=36.2219163&lon=37.1493148&z=15&l=0&m=b&search=Aleppo Sopher99 (talk) 12:24, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Joshua Landis reporting from Aleppo that the entire center has fell. https://twitter.com/joshua_landis (of course Twitter is not RS) "Jedida" http://wikimapia.org/#lat=36.2074693&lon=37.1587347&z=16&l=0&m=b&search=Aleppo Sopher99 (talk) 12:28, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2012/oct/25/syria-conflict-ceasefire-doubts-live#block-50892e83b5794584b1c13f66 Sopher99 (talk) 12:31, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Woah. Hold on. I thought Ashrafiyeh was between areas controlled by the Army and the area controlled by the Kurds. From which direction did the FSA entered the district? If I color Ashrafiyeh as contested, do I need to color everything east of that district as contested as well? Also, the reports about the city center is kinda vague. I'm not sure where to make the color changes for that either.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 13:47, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Ashrafiyeh is not contested. It is captured. No resistence. Zuhor to its south is contested. Color the southern half of shekh mehsud green (non contested).

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=36.2254562&lon=37.1483492&z=16&l=0&m=b&search=Aleppo Sopher99 (talk) 13:51, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Color everything from the citadel west to the bab jenen shop and northwest to aziziya contested.

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=36.2045258&lon=37.1604728&z=16&l=0&m=b&search=Aleppo Sopher99 (talk) 13:53, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I've changed the color for the northern districts. But I can't find where Christian districts (al-Syrian al-Jadide and al-Syrian al-Qadime), which was reported to have fallen, are. It's not showing up on Wikimapia (probably due to different spellings). -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 14:35, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I would hold up on any major changes for today until the current situation becomes clearer Future. So hold up until tomorrow. For now, all info has come based on rebel claims and one Guardian corespondent who admittedly said the claims could still not be confirmed at present. As I remember wasn't that your rule Sopher? 24-hour waiting period. EkoGraf (talk) 14:43, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Your coloring for al-Sabeel is incorrect Future, al-Sabeel wasn't mentioned in today's reports, haven't seen reports on ground fighting there at all. So at the very least that one needs reverting. EkoGraf (talk) 14:47, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I've colored them olive, meaning the situation is unclear. There was a tweet from the Guradian article: [25] that said "Spoke to friend in #Aleppo. FSA under her window. She is in one of the most prosperous neighbourhoods (alSabeel) of Aleppo." -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 14:51, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

I guess I agree with Ekograf to wait 24 hours to color the central districts. But the ashrafiya and Zuhor sources are pretty clear, so I would keep them. Also Bustan pasha and Ashrafiyeh should be colored light green, for uncontested rebel control. Sopher99 (talk) 14:53, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Jededia is the rectangle with "city council" , as well as the three squares/rectangles above Bustan al qasr in it by the way. The vertical rectangle above Jededia I believe is Qadime Sopher99 (talk) 14:56, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

If it stays the way as it is until tomorrow I would agree to all of Sopher's requests, except Bustan pasha, because no info that the fighting has stopped there. EkoGraf (talk) 15:49, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Like I said [26] already early indications the military has again pushed back the rebels in some areas just a few hours later. So until more info comes in its a fluid and unclear situation like during the September offensive. EkoGraf (talk) 15:58, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

---

A list

To save time and Energy

Zahra - Syrian army contorlled, Rebels claim clashes on Oct 25 http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/top-un-official-hopes-syria-cease-fire-will-take-place-but-no-guarantees-it-will-hold/2012/10/25/bb0c41aa-1e86-11e2-8817-41b9a7aaabc7_story.html

Sallaheddine - Contested/rebel controlled

Saif al Dawla - Rebel controlled, occasional fighting

Izaa - Frequent clashes

[Furqan district] - Syrian army controlled, rebels claim clashes on Oct 25 http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/top-un-official-hopes-syria-cease-fire-will-take-place-but-no-guarantees-it-will-hold/2012/10/25/bb0c41aa-1e86-11e2-8817-41b9a7aaabc7_story.html

Sukkari - Rebel controlled, last fighting 3 weeks ago

Bustan al qasr - Rebel controlled, last fighting reported 2 weeks ago

Aqabah - Unknown

[Jededia] - Reported captured by FSA http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2012/oct/25/syria-conflict-ceasefire-doubts-live#block-50892e83b5794584b1c13f66

Hazzeh - Reported Captured by FSA http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2012/oct/25/syria-conflict-ceasefire-doubts-live#block-50892e83b5794584b1c13f66

Aziziya - unknown

Suleimaniyeh - unknown

Arqoub - Clashes http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/top-un-official-hopes-syria-cease-fire-will-take-place-but-no-guarantees-it-will-hold/2012/10/25/bb0c41aa-1e86-11e2-8817-41b9a7aaabc7_story.html

Suleiman al Halabi - Clashes, reported captured by FSA http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/top-un-official-hopes-syria-cease-fire-will-take-place-but-no-guarantees-it-will-hold/2012/10/25/bb0c41aa-1e86-11e2-8817-41b9a7aaabc7_story.html

Shakur - Rebel controlled, last fighting reported a week ago

Midan - Clashes http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/top-un-official-hopes-syria-cease-fire-will-take-place-but-no-guarantees-it-will-hold/2012/10/25/bb0c41aa-1e86-11e2-8817-41b9a7aaabc7_story.html

Bustan al Pasha - Rbeel controlled, last fighting reported a week ago

Sheikh mehsud - PKK controlled except for south

[Syriac Quarter] - Clashes http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/top-un-official-hopes-syria-cease-fire-will-take-place-but-no-guarantees-it-will-hold/2012/10/25/bb0c41aa-1e86-11e2-8817-41b9a7aaabc7_story.html

Ashrafiyeh - Confirmed rebel controlled http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2012/oct/25/syria-conflict-ceasefire-doubts-live#block-50892e83b5794584b1c13f66

Zuhor - Clashes

Sabil - Vague report of Clashes http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/middle-east-live/2012/oct/25/syria-conflict-ceasefire-doubts-live#block-50892e83b5794584b1c13f66

Tishreen - Unknown, most likely Syrian army controlled Sopher99 (talk) 18:16, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

---

Here is an arabic map of the Battle of Aleppo. Maybe it will help you finding al-Syrian al-Jadide and al-Syrian al-Qadime if you find someone to translate it. Thank you for your great work in this map.--Comet21 (talk) 22:19, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Like I said, war is a fluid situation. Today, Joshua Landis, on who's reports we based 90 percent of our edits yesterday, said that later yesterday government tanks entered the main street running through those two Christian districts, forcing the rebels to make a tactical retreat back into the Kurdish district. And today its said the tanks have positioned themselves at the Kurdish districts (I suppose on the edge of it) leaving people fearing the possibility of being shelled. Sources [27][28]. As for Sopher's comments I agree with some disagree with others. Saif al-Dawla reports almost daily clashes, not occasional ones. Salahadine at the very least has some minimal clashes, except that one rebel commander's claim of capturing it yesterday, nobody else could confirm the claim (reminding that individual rebel commanders claimed on at least three other occasions over the last month of capturing Salahadine). Bustan Pasha and Bustan al-Qasr districts are very much still contested because they lie on the very frontline between government and rebel territory, lack of news doesn't mean lack of fighting, I think Sopher or I7Laseral or someone, I don't remember who, said it themselves a few days go. EkoGraf (talk) 16:15, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

AFP told the Old City is guarded by the soldiers and that there are no fighting there... it should be painted pink. Check the article. --Wüstenfuchs 16:25, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

The source says the ENTRANCE to the old city, ie Aziziya.--— Preceding unsigned comment added by Sopher99 (talk • contribs)

The Armenian news source per which we reported the rebels moved into the Armenian district, is now reporting that the army has regained control of the area [29]. So I think you should recolor the Armenian district back to Army control. Per all the sources at hand at the moment, the only gain the rebels made in the last 24 hours and that they managed to keep is the Kurdish district. Which is also in doubt as of the last hour in regard how long it will last because we have started getting reports the rebels and Kurds have indeed started fighting. EkoGraf (talk) 16:30, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Not true the rebels never claimed to have taken Zuhor, locals yesterday just said that FSA enetered Zuhor. The FSA says they took the Syriac quarter. Te only part the Syrian army was able to recapture from the old districts is this part of the through way street http://wikimapia.org/#lat=36.2052033&lon=37.1559774&z=18&l=0&m=b&search=Aleppo Sopher99 (talk) 16:44, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Per the sources the government tanks on that street makes the Christian area at the very least contested, not rebel-held, and I never said that they captured Zuhor, I said that they moved into it. And now per the same source that reported that, has now reported that the Army has pushed them out and cleared them from the Armenian area. Plus, per Guardian, the government tanks are back on the edge of the Kurdish district (in essence confirming that Zuhor has been cleared). In any case, let the Christian areas be contested/unclear for now, maybe we get more info tomorrow, but what has been confirmed per the Armenian news site and the Guardian (in essence) is that the rebels have been pushed out from the Armenian area (northern front) and are back in the Kurdish area, where they are now fighting the Kurds. I think that the rebels were also pushed out from Syriac because it runs parallel to Zuhor. In any case, in the north, per the Guardian, the rebels are now only in the Kurdish areas. EkoGraf (talk) 16:52, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

 Partly done -Okay, I've made color changes to the northern front. Everything west of Ashrafiyeh I've changed back to govt controlled. I've also colored parts of the Kurdish districts contested. Not sure how to color the Christian areas contested considering it's in the middle of what was Army territory. Where did the FSA attacked the Christian areas from? The north or south? -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 17:23, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Hello, I think you should remove the government advance toward Sukari, besides marking the entire district under rebel control. The latest news of fighting was three weeks ago and the army never claimed to have captured. --Emiliokun5 (talk) 12:39, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

I'm not entirely sure what's going on in Sukari, I haven't seen any news that says that the district has been captured by rebels, so I think it's better to leave the area contested for now.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 12:55, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Ashrafiyeh is in PYD's control SOHR says... this part should be returned yellow. ([30]) --Wüstenfuchs 22:33, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

This is strange it says fighting "erupted on Friday in the majority Kurdish neighbourhood of Ashrafiyeh" (suggesting it's contested), yet it's "still under PYD militia control". How does that work?-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 22:42, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, rebels are attacking but are unable to take the neighbourhood clearly... But it's better then to wait until fighting is over there. --Wüstenfuchs 23:11, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes it seems SOHR confirmed, after the fighting had ended, that the Kurds controlled the neigborhood. At the very least, that right part of Sheikh Maqsoud that you colored contested should be back to yellow, because per SOHR the fighting happened only on the perimeter of Sheikh Maqsoud, not in the district itself. As for Ashrafiyeh, my best guess is that the 200 confirmed rebels entered the area, had 19 killed, 20 captured, and who knows how many wounded, but lets say 20 also, which left them with around 60 percent of the initial force combat-ready. I don't see them able to hold the area after loosing that badly in clashes with the Kurds. So the fight probably left the area back under Kurdish control. EkoGraf (talk) 00:37, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

 Done -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 00:43, 28 October 2012 (UTC)

(Note: I moved the PKK discussion from my talk page to the Battle of Aleppo talkpage)

November updates

The Suleiman al-Halabi neighborhood of Aleppo, Syria, is now under full army control. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.84.86.14 (talk) 15:21, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

It says "according to state media", so I'm not sure if it's reliable. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:37, 2 November 2012 (UTC)

The Telegraph has now also reported the rebels retreated from Suleiman al-Halabi, per a reporter who was on the ground. Source here [31]. So you decide if it warrants changing the area to government-held. EkoGraf (talk) 15:52, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

 Done -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:58, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

Forgot about this. There was a report from SOHR from October 27, that the Kurdish area was back under full Kurdish control after expelling the rebels. Source here [32]. So the southern tip of the Kurdish Ashrafiyah area shouldn't be collored contested than anymore. EkoGraf (talk) 16:03, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

 Done -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 16:08, 4 November 2012 (UTC)

The Airforce intellegence base and leiramoon (bileiramoun) district have been under seiege by rebels for days. Which menas the rebels haven't exactly lost all that territory they gained earlier in northern aleppo. http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hkDVC9RxEcdAWsfpdr-qkKqvXklw?docId=CNG.babe2c6ce4fa65a761fb48cc26d19b48.561

If you don't know where that is please use the wikimapia link I give you.

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=36.2325833&lon=37.1109699&z=17&l=0&m=b&search=Aleppo

SOHR says Hamadaniya is expierencing clashes. https://www.facebook.com/syriaohr (on the right side column, above the Palestinian actor's assassination news).

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=36.18262&lon=37.1127295&z=16&l=0&m=b&search=Aleppo

Sukkari should be turned to light green. The Syrian army's attack on the district was repelled weeks ago. Bustan al qasr and Shakur should also be turned back to light green, as there is no fighting there right now other than artillery shelling by the Syrian army on the districts. Sopher99 (talk) 12:35, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

 Partly done -I colored Zahraa contested, but wasn't sure if I should color everything north of it contested too. As for Hamadaniya, it's a big district and I'm not sure where to color. I doubt there's clashes going on in the entire district. As for the other districts you mentioned, no news reports doesn't necessarily mean no fighting, and I'm reluctant to change those areas until there's news reports of rebels capturing those places. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:35, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

But you know that Shakur and Sukkari were already rebel captured the Syrian army momentarily attacked those areas three weeks ago. Sopher99 (talk) 15:44, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Well the site looks official so i guess it is reliable. I propose to add a green arrow at north western entrance of the city and making leramoon unclear. Amedjay (talk) 11:01, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree it should be changed Sakur and Sukari to light green. Or at least remove the pressure from the army to those places, that is pretty obvious that they are under rebel control--Emiliokun5 (talk) 23:51, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Hamdaniya could get coloured in the portion nearest the border with the other contested areas, as I get the impression that this is the result of a rebel incursion from "green" territory as opposed to a spontaneous uprising in the neighbourhood. Colouring the whole district brown would be more correct that having it all red in cases as this.

As an aside, those of us adding updates from SOHR should know that you can link to the specific post (e.g. https://www.facebook.com/syriaohr/posts/295479167227095 ) you want by clicking the datestamp, rather than just posting the link to the main page. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 16:45, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

As of wider area map in Aleppo battle i think that Afrin is under Kurdish control Afrin.--Dimitrish81 (talk) 18:15, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

I think that your update for Zahraa is good for now. Because the fighting was only reported in one area, not the whole district. As for Hamdaniya, I agree it was more likely a rebel incursion into it than a battle for the district. So the best course of action should be to just color as contested a small portion of the district that is in the border area with rebel-held territory. However, this should be done only if by tomorrow its still reported by SOHR that there is fighting in Hamdaniya. If there isn't, than it most certainly was a temporary incursion and no change should be made. EkoGraf (talk) 18:31, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

Turn Sukkari back to light green rebel control. By october 18th it was still under rebel control - yet the map has been showing it contested since September.

http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/10/18/244533.html SOHR says its rebel held on the 6th paragraph from the end. Sopher99 (talk) 14:24, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

 Done -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 14:49, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

this source looks reliable http://twitpic.com/bb1x33/full Alhanuty (talk) 15:23, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, I don't see any credentials or sources for the map maker, so the reliability of that map is uncertain. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:27, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I suggest to bring a new map from satellite view of Aleppo. the new map would be bigger than the actual one. I also suggest to add the artillery faculty on the actual map. It is situated on south west from Sukari. I also thought than we should make Nairab unclear because of the clashes next to the airport. What do you guys think about that? Amedjay (talk) 19:20, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

 Partly done -I added the artillery base. As for your other requests, satellite images are copyrighted and can't be used. The clashes at the airport happened a while ago, and now it's mostly quiet.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 19:31, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Alright thank you i'll try to search for news and help you guys for this article Amedjay (talk) 20:02, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Clashes were reported at leramoon distrcit , in the north eastern entrance of aleppo. Maybe you should add Leramoon and Rasafaeh and make them unclear. Leramoon is situated at north of Zahraa and Rasafeh in situated in the north eastern part of the kurdish controlled zones. We didn't heard about Rasafaeh yet but i think it is under FSA control.And i also request to add a rebel arrow from north eastern suburbs Amedjay (talk) 22:55, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Can you provide me the link to the sources? -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 23:07, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay I added the district names to the map. I've also found this source [33] that reports clashes in Layramoun on Nov. 5, but I'm not sure how reliable it is. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 23:37, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm sorry i ment north western entrance not north eastern. BTW did you send me a message? Amedjay (talk) 10:58, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, there's a tradition on Wikipeida to send a welcome package to new users :) -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 14:17, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

As for the site it looks official so i guess it is reliable. I propose to add green arrow at north western entrance of the city and make Leramoon unclear/ partially rebel controlled. Amedjay (talk) 11:03, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

 Done -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 16:43, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Why do you keep using sana sources? It is a pro governement media. It will always say that "armed forces clashed with terrorists and inflicted heavy losses upon the mercenary". Anyway , are there any clashes in Bustan al Qasr? if not it should be turned back to light green. Oh and is the old city under siege? If it is you must make the upper part of the old city unclear/rebel controlled. You choose. Amedjay (talk) 18:43, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Actually, I think this website http://www.documents.sy/index.php?lang=en is an activist one, because pretty much all of its videos are from opposition groups. As for Bustan al-Qasr and the Old City, usually what we do is to keep those areas stated as "unclear" unless we have news reports that one side has taken it. No news doesn't necessarily mean no fighting. I'm not sure what's going on north of the Old City. There was one news report two weeks a go that says that the citadel was completely surrounded. I think we should wait until we get a clearer picture. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 18:52, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Okay no problem , anyway i'll try to keep "helping" if i'm actually helping which is not sure :D ... And if you want my help Amedjay (talk) 19:26, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

I'm new here, that's why i do bad work Amedjay (talk) 19:33, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

I checked the reports on Layramoun. The reports on the fighting in that area was during the time between 31 October and 5 November. After that the reports on clashes in that area have went silent. No reports for a week now. But the contested color should still stay there for at least another week until we see if it flares up again. But, as far as I can see it, the fighting was only reported on and centered at the main roundabout that is on the intersection of that district and Rasafeh and Khaldyia. So I think you should color only that roundabout/intersection area, and not the whole district, like you did with Zahra. EkoGraf (talk) 02:42, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

 Done -Yeah, I don't think there's been a lot of news reports focusing on Aleppo's northwest, which is rather disappointing. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 03:15, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

the south of Aleppo is Sheikh Saeed Area is under government control[34][35] ReDvolucion (talk) 05:52, 12 November 2012 (UTC) .

Dude , the sheikh saeed is in southern outskirts and we can't see it in the map. and these sites aren't reliable because it is official governement sites and they always say that army "took this and this , inflicting heavy losses upon rebels Amedjay (talk) 17:06, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Yup. You've read my mind. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 17:08, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

haha :D Amedjay (talk) 17:59, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

So in fact , i was partially right about a unclear situation on the north of the old city. If there is no more sign of fighting during the week , then i think we're gonna have to make it back gvt controlled. Amedjay (talk) 18:15, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

I made 2 proposals about clashes in Allepo. Some of clashes are in 'dogfight'style - fight and run. Not exactly changing of area control. May be map changes have to be in 2two steps - first put icon for fight. Second - if not more info for fight - make area 'silent'. If more fights - unclear color. If info for area control change - make color change. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.40.118.68 (talk) 19:19, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

The problem is, just because there's no news reports does not mean the area is silent. It's better to just have fighting/unclear classified with the same color. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 19:23, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Why did you change the Kfar Hamra district to rebel-held? EkoGraf (talk) 20:47, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

 Fixed -Good point. It's probably best just to color the entire northwest area as "unclear" -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 22:16, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Never-mind, someone reverted it. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 01:53, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

No, i think we should just keep the northwestern area green and layramoon unclear/army controlled. The rebel gained the northwestern area. In fact they already captured it since the begining of the battle. We thought that they lost it but finally they didn't. They also control the western area. And they sometime launch attacks on army important places ( army academy , millitary resarch center , air defense building...) I think we should get back the extreme western area to green with an arrow in direction of east. What do you think about this guys? Amedjay (talk) 16:57, 13 November 2012 (UTC)

More November updates

Apparently the rebels captured a military post in Al Auya (Center), according to the news, the district serves as a "link between the center and the northern suburbs" and that the military position is "a road to the Military Academy ". To give you an idea of ​​where it is located.(In Spanish)--Emiliokun5 (talk) 16:59, 14 November 2012 (UTC) How did they even came in center of city and if this source even reliable? 78.232.100.63 (talk) 18:32, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

EFE is a very reliable source also find it quite easy for the rebels to attack the center. They did a few weeks ago

PS battles are reported at the airport In Spanish --Emiliokun5 (talk) 16:20, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Ok then let's color nairab unclear. Amedjay (talk) 17:32, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

I added a rebel arrow towards the airport. However, I haven't seen any sources that say that there's fighting in the Nairab, neighborhood south of the airport. Most of Aleppo's south is controlled by the govt. Also, I'm having trouble finding this military post.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:25, 17 November 2012 (UTC)

Im just copying here what I have written to image talk page, as that doesnt seem to have frequent traffic: according to this source [36] it is a frontline at least partially controlled by rebels. Frontline is on Sharaa Street, but damn me if I have any idea where it may be. Point is - not regime controlled. At least not fully. EllsworthSK (talk) 01:14, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Well i haven't seen any sources telling that Nairab was captured at any moment since battle started. And as you say the situation in center is really unclear, i couldn't find that military center too. Please give us more informations about it. Amedjay (talk) 13:48, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

And here are some sources saying that rebels advanced in jedidah neighbourhood in early november , maybe should we add a green arrow or a rebel advance in the district? http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/05/14941274-a-close-up-view-of-the-bloody-battle-for-aleppo?liteAmedjay (talk) 13:50, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

Could return the rebel pressure to the airport? It erased with the edit war. In addition, the rebels took another military post, the headquarters of the Baath party and the Agricultural Academy, but the source does not indicate that these places are located district. (In Spanish) --Emiliokun5 (talk) 20:23, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Are there still clashes in Hamadaniya ? If yes put it to unclear. What about al ansar mashad? Amedjay (talk) 18:43, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

FSA Holds at least part of Rasafeh. Youtube video 11/29/12. Layramoun checkpoint under fire, later stormed by FSA. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-c70VXAhi4

FSA appears to hold part of part of Farafira district. footage yesterday shows them firing rockets at close range into already heavily damaged midrises to the NE of sabaa Bahrat Square. Direction of fire appears to be from Farafira. If true, the Citadel is now cut off.

Footage shows heavy fighting in the Midan district from the Directorate Agriculture building. Also footage of a military checkpoint there being assulted. Midan should probably be contested. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 07:51, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

December updates

Arkub contested. I believe this footage is about a week old and this is a repost. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wySZJw7Lmhg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 08:31, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

If Rasafaeh is partially rebel controlled then let's change to green the north western part of sheikh maqsoud . What do you think about that future trillionaire also what do you think about 76....'s videos? Please reply. Amedjay (talk) 21:50, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Quadrant of Layramoun surrounding the Palace of Justice is under assult and heavily damaged. Adjacent air force intelligence building under attack. This area should be shown as contested. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7YyKyt5Fsw

Area around the military acadent being surrounded and under attack. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OR6apxd2tA On twitter reports of ongoing fighting and statements that the school will fall soon and that the adjacent "Hara" area has fallen.. not sure where that is.

Arkub industrial area is still heavily contested. should change to Olive. This is directly north of Hnano Base. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akNE0vcR7RY

This is just speculation on my part, but if you color all of the areas I've cited in the last 2 days, all corraberated by video.. I think Aleppo is fairly close to falling. FSA lines moving forward on all fronts, with the FSA brigade from Al Atarib overunning them from the west... The entire remaining government controlled city center could be cut off if they push through the soccor stadium in Salahedine.. The FSA only needs to close about a 1 mile gap through Hamadaniya... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 22:38, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

The videos look interesting. However, the other editors will only accept reliable news sources, not unverified videos. Sorry.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 00:26, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

---

Hi,

I am a contributor to French wikipedia, I see your work for several months And I am impressed by the maps especially by that of Aleppo.

In the French press information is output to Aleppo: http://www.lorientlejour.com/category/Derni%C3%A8res+Infos/article/790511/Assaut_de_larmee_syrienne_sur_le_nord-est_dAlep_tenu_par_les_jihadistes.html

If you do not mind, I'd like to help with the following in regard to the civil war, the atmosphere on the French wikipedia was bad ...

Maurcich (talk) 17:25, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

---

You should make Bustan al-Basha and Halek neibhourhoods red in the inofobox map. Halek is small province, north of Bustan al-Basha, you'll find its location at Wikimapia under name al-Hellok.

See the latest news from the article as a source. --Wüstenfuchs 18:07, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

 Done New district added as olive. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 18:33, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Good point... I made a mistake, I misjudged it seams... Anyways, I appriciate the effort. --Wüstenfuchs 18:40, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Shukur and saif al dawa can go to rebel held light green. http://www.arabtimesonline.com/NewsDetails/tabid/96/smid/414/ArticleID/186599/reftab/96/Default.aspx Sopher99 (talk) 18:56, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure that district being bombarded means that it is fully under rebel control. A lot of these districts are pretty big. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 19:13, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Read more carefully. "Bombing rebel controlled districts of". It was only reported once, one and a half months ago, that the Syrian army was attacking those areas. Clearly they have been repelled. Sopher99 (talk) 20:13, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

 Done -Yeah, you're right. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 21:43, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I think you should revert Saif al-Dawla back to contested and not exclusively rebel-held. Because, reports of sporadic clashes from that district still come out from time to time and a report stating the army bombarded rebel-held areas in the district does not mean by any means that the whole district is rebel-held. EkoGraf (talk) 21:56, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure, the SOHR report in Sopher's article seems to say the Saif al-Dawla is under rebel control.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 21:59, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

What have you done to the map... you udjusted it according to the news from 9 August? http://www.arabtimesonline.com/NewsDetails/tabid/96/smid/414/ArticleID/186599/reftab/96/Default.aspx --Wüstenfuchs 12:21, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

I was searching google for recent news and that came up. Looks like I didn't check the date.

Regardless, I have some new from SOHR TODAY on the bombing of Shakur. https://www.facebook.com/syriaohr Sopher99 (talk) 15:55, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Finally, some "official" press documentation of this. Miltary Academy has been under seige for a week. This area is surrounded and should be colored Olive. Although CNN's story does not specifically state it, I've been watching the advance on the western front. The areas to the west are also FSA controlled. The seige of the base is a continuation of the push from Al Atarbi and base 46. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2012/12/04/syrian-base-under-siege-arwa-damon-pkg.cnn I'm also confident in my info on FSA control of part of Rasafeh, here is a week old article. Tweets indicate it's ongoing and videos show the attack comming from Rasafeh diagonally across the Layramoun roundabout. I don't have any more info, but at the very least the 2 areas should be shown as contested. http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=819906 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.90.184.237 (talk) 20:08, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

The CNN video looks very interesting. It looks like the rebels are very close the academy. However, the video doesn't specify where exactly the rebels are. The video says 3 rebel and one al-Nusra brigades are "surrounding" the base, with al-Nusra controlling "the road to Aleppo". The commander in the video also drew a crude drawing of positions, but I can't really interpret it. I'm gonna need some help here.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 23:57, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

Not suprising because rebels took khan al assal, and the road leading into allepo. They also control the western countryside as well.

Here's what you do. Everywhere from the horizontal road directly south form the military research center, down to the bottom of the map, you color contested. This means you are coloring every thing west of the academy up to the research center green. Sopher99 (talk) 01:11, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

 Partly done -Not sure how the others will react to this, so I'll just color the areas west of the boundary of the academy contested for now. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 01:20, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Not that it matters for wikipedia, but I constructed a map over time of more exact positions of rebels and syrian army in Aleppo, through twitter and youtube videos from rebel brigades channels and accounts. I am sure you can figure out the color scheme.

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=201432130468146210433.0004cce673e7885e71b43 Sopher99 (talk) 01:35, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Interesting video on the Aleppo military academy siege. However, if you watch it, the rebels apparently have the base surrounded, with al-Nusra holding control of the road to Aleppo. The map should show this. I also get the feeling that the situation in the outskirts of the city has changed and that that entire part of the map might not be accurate. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 04:40, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

Unless the Info on Suleiman is more current, this Dec 2nd CNN report says it has been in Syrian Army hands for 1 month. http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2012/12/02/children-fight-for-food-in-aleppo.cnn Adjacent Sakhur district is clearly in FSA control. Not sure what the army is trying to do... Seems they are intent on punching through to the airport, hence the ferocity over Midan and the recent assult into Bustan al Basha.. They have already pulled out of Bustan al Basha. They can't hold Arkub.. so they are exposed to the south as well. The confusing thing is that the army is being pressed heavily from the west cutting of the road to Damascas, northwest and center city. The report says they are trying to cut the FSA supply line, but I don't see how they could push all the way to the airport and hold it, and their rear is getting battered hard. Either the guys in charge are desperate, or not very astute in military strategy. Time will tell, but I suspect the army is about to get battered and lose the NW and SW fronts. The larger bases directly west of Aleppo may hold.

If there are clashes on arkub just put it to olive or add an arrow. As for the western front let's just make the extreme south western area green and add arrows in direction of the besieged infantry school. And let's put the area of the infatry school and its surroundings til hamandiya to olive. I'll try to do that soon. Amedjay (talk) 12:28, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

It looks like it is the beginning of the end. If army loses that infantry school then rebel would be able to move to salahedeen and center city from west . If they do the army would be doomed. Amedjay (talk) 17:54, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

I've got a problem with typing words with inkscape so it would be nice of you adding the tishreen district which is located between khalidya and al sabeil. Thanks in advance. Amedjay (talk) 20:11, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

In response to Deonis 2012, I don't have knowledge of the residential half of Rasafeh. It may or may not be in SAA hands. I can say that there are large numbers of videos over the last 1-2 weeks showing heavy FSA fire coming from the industrial district. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSb8k2IkoB0 This video shows an assault 11/17 comming from the multi story building directly diagonal SW from the bus station. You can zoom into the Layramoun roundabout in google satellite or wikimapia and clearly see the circular landscape feature and parking lot in the video. The FSA takes the buildings opposite. This gives them control of 2 of the 4 sides of the roundabout. Multiple videos 12/1 show them assalting then occupying the large 5 story buildings surrounding the soap factory on the 3rd corner of the roundabout. More recent videos show a proported assault on the air force intelligence building adjacent to the palace of justice, but since I can't pinpoint the exact location, I'd leave it in SAA hands until verified. I beleive the fire is comming from Khaldiya neighborhood in the SW and 4th corner of the roundabout. So if Rasafeh is under SAA control as Deonis suggests... Then they are asleep as a few hundred FSA stroll through the neighborhood and use it to launch a major assault. So not only is at least part of Rasafeh contested or in FSA control, the quadrant surrounding the palace of justice and air force intelligence as well as at least part of Kaldiya to the east is under assault or partial FSA control. Deonis... put that in your pipe and smoke it... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 06:15, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

• On the besieged military base: an anon brought to my attention on my Commons talkpage that we may have the wrong base marked as besieged. Upon doing some map-scouring, I believe he could be right. Firstly, the area shown in the CNN video looks fairly open, while the Assad Academy is situated in a more built up part of town. The anon suggested this base as the one under siege. I think I may have found the water tower shown in the video as well. However, the Assad base is on the outskirts, and the shots may have been filmed to the southwest or northwest of the base, which are more open areas. There is also a water tower sort of thing there as well, and the distance from it to the perimeter wall seems shorter, while the northerly one seems deeper in the base. The place description for the northerly base also says that it has been long since captured—though I'm not sure the sourcing on that. What do others think? ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 23:05, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I had similar suspicions. I doubt the rebels could've "surrounded" the base, considering it's pretty deep within govt territory. I think it's safer to change the coloring back before when we watched the CNN video rather than keeping it as it is. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 23:42, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure if the new proposed base is correct or not, but I do think it's clearly not the Al Assad Military Academy. I did see many reports that the FSA had advanced as far as Kafr Naha 8 km to the west, and have seen recent reports of clashes in Khan Al Asal as close as 2km to the Al Assad, but no confirmation they have made it any further. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 07:07, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Bustan al Bacha was taken by the syrian army 82.246.105.242 (talk) 07:20, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Well maybe there was a mistake on the besieged place but yet we can't ignore that the western entrance of aleppo isn't under FULL governement control. Amedjay (talk) 15:19, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

The thing is. I haven't seen any sources stating that the rebels of gotten control of the Western edge of Aleppo. I think it's safe to assume it's under govt control until we find some sources. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:21, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

So finally was it a mistake or not? I agree that the situation is shifting. Anyway what is sure is that the army is about to get overruned from the NW and SW front. Amedjay (talk) 23:12, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure what's going on at Commons. Deonis (who can't speak English) appears to be starting an edit war again using other people's edit summaries and words copied from commons. This appears to be causing some confusion.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 00:13, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

One of 4 videos I found today showing the assult on Sabaa Bahrat square. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8G-3_jDUEA The final video I found shows FSA snipers in the building at the NW corner of the traffic circle. This means they are now in the position of the buildings they were hitting with Rockets that I posted a week ago. The assult is from the East. Farafira north of the mosque is clearly contested. Effectively, this confirms the citadel is now cut off, although only a week ago, the SAA had at least 1 route open adjacent to it. Everything 360 degrees around the citadel is contested with the possible exception of a single line in, assuming it hasn't fallen. It probably did for the FSA to make it to where the videos show them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 09:20, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

76.104.... are you actually SURE this videos are reliable? If they are i'll make these zones contested. Amedjay (talk) 15:03, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

FutureTrillionaire , I think we have to do something about Deonis 2012. Something like a vote. He should really stop if he doesn't want to get kicked out of wikipedia. And I saw he's pretty much biased towards regime. This can be a clue. Amedjay (talk) 15:05, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Alright FT, I confirmed what you said btw what did you mean by he has been warned on commons? Do you mean my warning? Amedjay (talk) 15:41, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Ok now let's talk about old city. Does anyone have any report of fighting in the old city? Amedjay (talk) 16:56, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Here's the 4th video of the assult on Sabaa Bahrat square. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcdhrjMLETA&feature=g-high-u This one shows the traffic circle the clearest. I think it's from the 2nd building back, not the one directly on the corner. I'd show this small area of western farafira as disputed. Oddly, the direction of fire implies that the SAA may hold some of the ground at the SW side of the square, in Aquabe. My statements about the FSA controlling the entire district of Farafira are speculative. It may be that there is still an open corridor to the citadel. No info on the "Old City" CNN reported from the "Old City" showing FSA in control, but it's kind of a vague term and I'm not sure if it's the "Ancient City" or some other historic district.

Supplemental info. Al Jazeera reports fighting around the Mosque, and Suleimon. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X68HcCAe1s This coincides with the reports and videos of Bahrat. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 07:40, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Re Infantry school: http://transterramedia.com/media/11879 (Diary of a soldier in Assad's army 4/4 (from a besieged infantery school)) The diary mentions a "cement factory" and a "free area". The "free area" may match with the "free zone" W of Wikimapia's Babinnis. It appears that what is "surrounded" (and apparantly close to fall) is the "Infantery School" in Rif Aleppo NE of Aleppo City. This does not exclude that other reports actually refer to clashes near the "military academy" SW Aleppo City. Difficult job you have, Futuretrillionaire. (pirxl) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.18.178.94 (talk) 09:13, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Re Infantry school: https://twitter.com/markito0171/status/275285303143587842 also LCC from the same date (pirxl)

 Partly done @76.104.169.68 The videos look convincing. The video shows the "bent" building on the SW side of the circle, and the footage seems to be shot from the one of the buildings on the NE, so I colored the NE side olive.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 14:11, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Future I looked at the linked video report in which Arwa Demon allegedly says that its the military academy that is under siege and almost overruned. Here [37] And here is the text version [38]. In both of them it is said it is near or outside Aleppo and it has been described as a sprawling military base. Given the events from today about the partial taking of the base of regiment 111, which has been described as a sprawling base I am now more than convinced that Arwa Damon was talking about this base, which is not even within the city limits of Aleppo, let alone near the military academy. Its some 20 kilometers to the west of Aleppo in the countryside. Also, in the video, she says that the al-Nusra front was also engaged in the siege of the base, and reports from today that are that it was they that took the partial control of the sprawling military base in the countryside. Also, in the CNN report it was stated that 150 soldiers were left at the base. Reports from today about the regiment 111 base say that 7 soldiers were captured, 2 killed and 140 withdrew to the scientific research center. That is almost 150 by my count. I think that the events of the last 24 hours have shown what base she was actually talking about. So my recommendation is to color back the southwestern part of Aleppo, that you colored as contested/unclear, back to government-held. I think that the fighting for the base have been happening just west of Aleppo, which is off-map slightly, but certainly not in the southwestern parts of the city. EkoGraf (talk) 15:09, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

 Done I agree. I tried to changed it back before, but it got messed up from the edit-warring. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:15, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Fututre trillionaire , I didn't quite understand the changes made on the map. Why did you move "old city" down and why did you changed back to red the area next to the mosquee? Amedjay (talk) 15:15, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

 Fixed -I moved Old City back up. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:20, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Yeah you're right. Bab Antakya (west of the Mosque) still has rebel presence: [39] (photo 8) -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 15:29, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Well maybe there aren't any rebels in the entrance of Aleppo but since they took base 46 , they took a large part of the M5 highway next to Aleppo. Anyway if there is any offensive from west in the next few days then please put it to unclear as I did. Amedjay (talk) 15:25, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Please add Tishreen district which is located between khaldiya and al sabeil. Amedjay (talk) 15:35, 10 December 2012 (UTC)

Re: Infantry School/Military Academy: Please check https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/nowsyrialatestnews/syria_rebels_attack_military_school_north_of_aleppo. pirxl — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.18.178.94 (talk) 11:23, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Dear Futurtrillionaire,

It seems that you forgot some points :

- Bustan al pacha is controlled by SAA. - There is fighting in al sakhur. - REgarding palace of justice, I don't really know what are your sources but there is nothing.

- Not sure for the west side, but it seems that they are only some rifles and nothing else. - For the rest, nothing is really moving. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.62.147.76 (talk) 20:18, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Bustan al-Pasha is not yet under Government control fully )about 70 % SAA/government, 30 % armed insurgents FSA and AlNusra', but should remain olive brown. However Sakhour and even Hanano now see battles between Army and rebels, so these should become brown/olive too. Even pro-rebel CNN etc. report it.[40] Even sites claiming "endgame for Assad" have to report about Sakhour and even Hanano seeing fighting. This suggest a Syrian Army advance into rebel held areas. [41] It is very clear that the Army is trying to surround the rebels and cut off supplies. This Assad government operation might soon succeed if no NATO military attack against Syria takes place. Militarily the rebels are weaking, yet the map still suggests they are strong and attacking everywhere. No red arrows are placed in the map pointing into Sakhour, none into Hanano, none into Al-Ansari, sadly enough. The Syrian Army offensives inside Aleppo are increasing, advances too, but the map more or less remained the same. How come that taxis can drive to Aleppo Airport from Salaheddine, whereas allegedly the rebels control these (in between) quarters totally?NiederlandeFW (talk) 11:15, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Well actually almost all reinforcements roads for army in Aleppo got taken by rebels and the "offensives" you are talking about are just last army's efforts to take Aleppo. Plus , we add arrows to areas ONLY when the army or the opposition are launching GROUND attacks. Airstrikes and artillery shelling aren't reall ground offensives. Oh and do you really think that rebels would shoot any taxi coming in their territory? Amedjay (talk) 18:14, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Saying that rebels are getting weaker is idiot. They're gaining large amount or territory in Syria and especially Aleppo's province everyday. Plus they got reinforcements from turkey. Amedjay (talk) 18:17, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Out for a week, catching up on the situation. Posting Video footage that I believe is compelling enough to change the map:

1. Ummayad Mosque was assaulted and at least temporarily infiltrated. Footage taken from an overgrown rooftop 1-2 buildings to the east of the mosque. Shows unidentifiable gunman and a number of bodies in the courtyard. The area around the mosque should be shown as olive, contested. Additional footage showing the rear angle of the roof the FSA are on, dated prior to the first footage posted. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klKGJabR5K0

GFS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 06:04, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

As I've been saying for a week or more.. Maysaloun is contested or primarily in FSA control. On the wikipedia map, it's the northern front of Hanano Baraks, called out as Hamidiya. This is at least in part from the overpass to the NW. At least half a dozen FSA videos have also been posted in the last week of fighting in this area. This bit of semi propeganda is from the SAA. If BOTH sides are posting videos of fighting there.. its as good as disputed IMO. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6843e8j7fU — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 07:16, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Unclear areas of fighting in wrong color

Why are the Shaar, Sakhour and Al-Ansari quarters of Aleppo not in olive yet. The Syrian Arab Army advanced into Shaar, holds vast streets of Sakhour and Al-Ansari now. They should be painted in olive brown by now. Here are some sources. The Shaar Quarter of Aleppo sees fierce fighting between the Government-held Syrian Police Station and Ansar al-Islam and FSA armed insurgents. Shaar must now be painted brown/olive in the map. Also, the Iranian reporters of FARS may be biased in reporting, but these locations are reliable of this article. Sakhour is now in vast parts controlled by the Syrian Army who are raiding rebel dens. The FARS agency states that 70 % of Bustan al-Basha is in the hands of the Syrian Army. This also explains why the Army can advance to attack rebels in Sakhour and took parts of Sakhour in these confrontations. Sakhour must become olive and brown, however Bustan al-Basha should remain olive/brown and not yet red. 70 % is not 99 or 100 % after all. It is annoying to see Mr Von Richthofen and others insist that the rebels took southwestern Aleppo, which is clearly in contradiction with the roadside situation and operations of the Syrian Army against rebel-held villages and farms to the southwest. The onslaught is from the northeast and north. The Syrian Army is trying to cut off the central rebel-held areas by a saillant towards Aleppo Airport. Shaar, Sakhour, Al-Ansari and maybe even more quarters should be designated as Unclear, thus olive/brown, due to ongoing fighting. The same is done even with minor clashes in government-held red quarters in the west, so..... Even reports by pro-rebel embedded journalists writing for CNN (firmly anti-Assad government) describe Army vs. rebel clashes in Sakhour area of Aleppo. Ongoing on 4 December already. Today, these fights are even advancing more, if one reads the FARS News of 9 December. The map should remain reliable and not only describe rebel advances or minor clashes so as to diminish government areas.NiederlandeFW (talk) 11:07, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

 Partly done -Not sure about Al-Ansari, but I'm convinced there's fighting in Shaar and Sakhour. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 16:50, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

Looks like Amedjay reverted your edits, and added another green arrow. Esn (talk) 22:29, 11 December 2012 (UTC)

And removed a red arrow while claiming to have added new districts (I don't see any new districts added, am I blind?)... I'm wondering, are these arrows even meaningful? I mean, looking at all these arrows, if I didn't know anything else I'd think there was mobile warfare going on in Aleppo, control switching left and right. But we know the reality is completely opposite, there hasn't been a meaningful advance anywhere in Aleppo for months really, while the battles seem to be going on with roughly similar intensity along the entire frontline. Not like we can really judge the variations in intensity anyway, so why try. If I was in charge of this, I'd either remove all the arrows completely, or make a policy of inserting arrows only when the situation actually changes. Like, every time a district changes color (and not because we realize we fucked up, like with south-west aleppo thing, but because the situation actually changed on the ground), I'd also put an arrow there to reflect the fact that the change was recent, then remove the arrow after like two weeks (or some other arbitrary amount of time) to reflect the lack of recent changes in the area. That way the arrows would actually be useful in telling us what is a recent development and what isn't. It would also help in distinguishing map changes that are due to actual developments on the ground from changes that are just due to us realizing we screwed up something. Like for instance, looking at the map today compared to a few days ago one could easily get the idea that the SAA just launched a big offensive in the south-west and successfully recaptured a lot of land, while no such thing actually occurred. With the arrow policy though, one would be able to tell that this isn't what happened. So anyway, if that was the policy, then there would currently be a red arrow into Helak because that change is still relatively recent, and maybe a green arrow into rasafeh since that's also pretty recent, and.... that's about it. Kami888 (talk) 00:33, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

 Done, I've removed the old arrows. I agree they're rather misleading. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 03:28, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Please note that Amedjay's changes are highly POV. He seems to be in denial about the Syrian Arab Army offensive having recaptured vast parts of Sakhour, Shaar. Like Bustan al-Basha, Sakhour and Shaar are now partially under SAA control. The same mode can be seen with some Free Syrian Army and Islamist Mujahedeen supporters on wikipedia on the Rif Dimashq operations. Although some media seem to want to indicate that the FSA and Mujahedeen are succesfully on toward their full total victory, this is ridiculous from a rational military point of view. Without a NATO intervention, in many areas the stalemate situation will continue, whereas in Aleppo the Syrian Army is advancing. This despite loss of certain military schools and largely abandoned airfields and Army strongholds which for months held out in the Syrian-Turkish rebel-held border area. The fact these bases of the SAA fell, cannot justify any denial or neglecting of the Battle of Aleppo advances. As I said before, we must investigate why taxis and the road to Aleppo International Airport from Midan, Old City, Salaheddine etc. is open to civil traffic once again since December 8. This can be explained with the Syrian Army piercing its way to enclose and cut-off the rebel central areas. Overall however, the Syrian Arab Army seemed to have taken a wait and see approach until November 2012, possibly to avoid huge losses in soldiers in street to street fighting. Aleppo-Shaar, Aleppo-Sakhour are again in Army hands partially, fighting there continues. Of course the Kurdish bloc plays a role in this advance.NiederlandeFW (talk) 12:31, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Also, this file is sometimes buggy. The edits with new districts Amedjay added didn't appear in the file maybe because the file didn't update, or takes a very long time to update.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 03:34, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Dear FutureTrillionaire, I saw you did not include your previous changes to your great Battle of Aleppo map concerning the Syrian Arab Army advancement into Shaar, Sakhour (controlling vast parts of it and installing artillery units, which means a stable ground-based presence there), al-Ansari. Shaar and Sakhour from Bustan al-Basha indicate a Syrian Army advance towards Aleppo International Airport, which can still be reached by government taxis and vehicles as both CNN, foreign ARD reporters (German), FARS Iranian News Agency, SANA Syrian State Press Agency and other correspondents confirm. Amedjay and certain other users here are part of a paid blogger and internet corps as to portray an excessive success of the rebels in Aleppo (and Rif Dimashq) not in accord with any reality on the ground. Why would the Syrian Army in Aleppo be able to advance towards the airport, if the southwest army bases were under attack or the Justice Palace in the northwest. I think your great map needs to the changes you added on December 11, which were reverted by Amedjay who clearly has POV views of this conflict. Neutrality requires multiple sources and refraining from such reverts by Amedjay and others. The map in WikiCommons should now have brown/olive for Shaar and Sakhour and al-Ansari too. The SAA is attempting to enclose the southern Aleppo city centre rebels. However the claims that Bustan al-Basha is already entirely under full Army control are false (although 70 % was on Dec 10). I think I am neutral on these articles. We cannot have wikipedia become a State Department, political or Free Syrian Army or Jihadist success "frontpage". This is no newspaper.NiederlandeFW (talk) 12:31, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Also, in Hanano/Aleppo the Syrian Arab Army is fighting rebels. Hanano and streets are in the hands of the Syrian Arab Army, at least they were on December 11, 2012. [42] This means that the map needs seriously more areas of olive/brown, including Hanano quarter in olive/brown. Arrows of red into Bustan al-Pasha, Sakhour into the Airport direction, red arrows from Hanano all fail. Hanano must be designated olive/brown too! Hanano is divided by the "front line" between FSA and Syrian Army.Reuters photo 7 out of 13. This means Hanano is not under rebel control totally at all. On the contrary, it is a quarter of ongoing fighting between rebels of FSA, Al-Nusra and the Syrian government army. The map therefore needs some serious re-editing soon. Already by mid November Hanano was divided between rebels and Syrian Arab Army. And the Army made advances, as it retook the Hanano Army Base on the outskirts. These reports from pro-rebel sources like CNN and Reuters all indicate clearly how the situation changed. It seems some want to keep the map in favour of only rebel advances, which would portray not the reality. Again, another source mentioning the regime strongholds around the police station in Shaar [43]. Also, the Army launched external offensives into Shaar from Bustan al-Basha and the Citadel. Even Zabdiya outskirt of Aleppo is partially under Army control now, after months of heavy shelling by the Army against the rebels in that suburb....NiederlandeFW (talk) 13:11, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Sir, you appear to be confusing the Hanano base area (north-east of citadel) with the Hanano district on the outskirts of the city, which has no known Syrian army presense thus far. Also, "We cannot have wikipedia become a State Department, political or Free Syrian Army or Jihadist success "frontpage"." - what makes you think that? =D 216.231.208.128 (talk) 18:01, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Dear, no. Although I should not have mentioned the Hanano Army Base, I mean this Photo 7 of 12 Reuters Report Comment very much proves that the frontline between SAA and FSA-rebels is inside Hananon Neighbourhood. I just confused it, but it is still true that Hanano should become olive/brown too. How could the Army control the road to the airport, if Hanano, Shaar were not at least partially in its Army hand?NiederlandeFW (talk) 12:26, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Hanano district, Hanano base. If you can't tell the difference between the two, you're not competent enough to be proposing map changes. And between your malicious, bad-faithed well-poisoning here and on other pages, the fact that you consider yourself "neutral" is downright laughable. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 21:59, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not need to be a "frontpage" for rebel successes, as even Assad's friends in Russia are doing a good job of that now. Thought it wasn't possible, but your self-proclaimed "neutrality" looks even more ridiculous. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 22:05, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

You are now dropping your objectivity, sadly enough. Citing Al Jazeera and Al-Arabiya means that you fail to see their political agendas. Bogdanov on December 14, 2012, clarified his comment (warning TIME is not entirely honest on this anymore, there was no backtracking, only clarification). He stated that any rebel victory would come at an unacceptable price and that Russia continues to support the current Syrian government. The same is valid for the Farouk al-Sharaa comment in Al-Ahram in Lebanon, who never said that neither side could win, but that the rebels could never win on the ground, nor could the Syrian Army win "on the ground"!NiederlandeFW (talk) 12:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

I am not refusing to admit that there is no offensive on north western suburbs , I'm just saying that most of the supplies routes of tha army leading to Aleppo are now taken. I'm just wondering how army could launch such powerfull offensives onto rebel held districts. Accorded to you , only SAA attacks in Aleppo, it's just totally false. Amedjay (talk) 13:19, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

As for the citadel , the army can't really launch attack from there , they're besieged. Look at the map. Hanano and Sakhour are very big districts , I NEVER EVER said that the FSA was in full control of them. The news does not specify in which part of the districts the fighting is. Maybe it's just the area next to Suleman al Halabi or Midan. Amedjay (talk) 13:23, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

If the FSA/rebels are not in full control, they must be coloured brown/olive and listed as contested (ongoing fights). Sakhour and Shaar and even Hanano are seeing heavy fights. But Sakhour and Shaar are certainly divided entirely, whereas the sources for Hanano are scarce.NiederlandeFW (talk) 12:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Wait WHAT?!?! Did you just say i'm a paid opposition activist? Is that a personal attack? You don't know me and I don't know you why do you start talking **** about me? If I was an activist I won't add new districts , I'll just color everything green. I NEVER ATTACKED YOU , I don't even know who you are so stop saying that i'm a pro opposition editor. Amedjay (talk) 15:09, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Apologies

I apologize for my remarks, not for the content though. I failed to assert your good faith. Please accept my apologies. Despite this, Sakhour and Shaar must be entirely in olive/brown. They have seen weeks of clashes between Syrian Army vs. Al-Nusra and FSA now. Still they are listed as "under rebel control". This is no longer true since many weeks.NiederlandeFW (talk) 12:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Still, on content we disagree. Shaar, Sakhour, Hanano are the frontline now in the northeast of the city centre. The Army controls parts of those neighbourshoods once again now too, not only Bustan al-Pasha (70 %).NiederlandeFW (talk) 12:26, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

It's okay, I forgive you , we just maybe have different opinions but never do that again ok? Amedjay (talk) 16:13, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Military research center

Military research center in western Aleppo is in control of the rebels of Al Nusra front.You should change the color in green!— Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.107.225.49 (talk • contribs)

No sir , you're wrong. The base you're talking about is apparently not the one in western entrance of Aleppo as i thought first but the one in sheikh suleiman. Please not that it already has been overran earlier but taken back by the army. The Jahbat al Nusra group took it on 10 december. It was reported that more or less than 100 soldiers fled to the scientific building wearing gas masks. Amedjay (talk) 18:00, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Airport Motorway

According to this video from Syrian National TV (Link), Halab (Aleppo) Southern Bypass Motorway from Ramouse to Halab International Airport is under government control, and since this motorway passes through southern neighbourhoods and also Al-Myassar, these should be technically under Syrian Arab Army control. Haghal Jagul (talk) 23:19, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Where is Ramouse located? Al-Myassar is already colored contested on the map, it's not certain that it is completely under army control. Kami888 (talk) 00:13, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Not RS by a long shot, and the main road from Ramouseh to the airport looks to be the beltway, which is A) already coloured red for the small stretch shown and B) largely outside the map's range anyway. Thanks for playing. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 01:54, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

BTW, Ramouse is shown in this link Haghal Jagul (talk) Also according to this video, the traffic on Sheikh Saeed Bridge which passes over government controlled Bypass Motorway is normal and therefore Sheikh Saeed is contested. So Pleas change the colour. Haghal Jagul (talk) 03:48, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Again, we do not use the official news organs of involved parties as sources for changing the map. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 17:14, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Additional Landmarks to Map

Futuretrillionaire can you please put the Police Academy up on the map? Thanks in advance Cjblair (talk) 07:32, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Where is the police academy? 78.232.100.63 (talk) 12:12, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Dear fellow users, would you confirm whether the area marked "Jedida" on you map is actually the Jdeideh district of Aleppo? Thanks in advance — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.219.80.41 (talk) 23:34, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

I think that's correct. I'm not 100% sure though. It's rather annoying that Wikimapia does not use more common romanization of Arabic names. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 23:40, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

>implying anyone uses a common, consistent system of Arabic transliteration. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 01:33, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Where is the infranty school?14:10, 14 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.107.254.120 (talk)

The infantry school currently under siege is outside the map. You can find it here, to the northeast of Aleppo. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 17:18, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Why is very important for syrian rebels taking control of infantry school?The siege of this base of regular army is going for several weeks. 21:53, 14 December 2012 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.107.255.193 (talk)

Well, sieges are generally long-term things. Base 46 took around two months to capture, Sheikh Suleiman/Base 111 even longer. There are reportedly around 3000 soldiers in the base, which is a fairly large threat. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 22:11, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

This capture is relatively unimportant, as only 350 soldiers were involved and few if any military materiel is involved. The Syrian Arab Army is retreating from the pockets close to the Turkish border in the north since July, in a strategic withdrawal (leaving many regions to neutral Kurdish militias for promise of autonomy for Kurds in future).NiederlandeFW (talk) 12:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

I'll have to disagree again. It's false to say this base isn't important. It was one of the last bases supplying the army and it had a very important strategic location. The fact that it has fallen into opposition's hands is surrending a little more the syrian army. Amedjay (talk) 13:01, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Useful source

This youtube video can be useful. link The channel where the updated versions are published link Haghal Jagul (talk) 04:18, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

"Useful"?-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 04:24, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

It is a source, and the guy only presents info which are confirmed. It can be one of the sources refered to, when working on the map and the info about Safira and areas around seem to be detailed and accurate enough. Haghal Jagul (talk) 04:27, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

"It is a source, and the guy only presents info which are confirmed." you mean he says it's confirmed? There are no actual cited sources for anything going on in his maps. And just look at his battle of Aleppo map, it's nothing like our map, and nothing like any other map on the subject by anyone, including the supporters of the government AND its enemies. Idk where he thinks he's getting this "verifiedinfo" from but I don't think the guy has any credibility. Like he says in the first video, he likes to play strategy games, and that's most of what seems to be going on in his videos, a fantasy strategy game. Kami888 (talk) 14:07, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

"WWIII" [44] ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 17:15, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Infantry school in Aleppo has been taken.

Numerous youtube videos showing rebels in control of that base, AL-J also has a report I think.

http://wikimapia.org/#lat=36.3236613&lon=37.2479332&z=16&l=0&m=b — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.53.188.179 (talk) 15:31, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

CNN also reporting this http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/world/meast/syria-civil-war/ --68.65.56.176 (talk) 18:17, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

That's cool and all, but that particular base is just off the map, to the northeast, past Handarat. 146.151.97.237 (talk) 20:12, 15 December 2012 (UTC)Mango

More maps?

Hello! can someone do the same map but for Homs because it is a major battle thanks Alaa94frlb (talk) 22:33, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

And can someone tell me how to do such maps ? Alaa94frlb (talk) 22:37, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

We dont have many RS for Homs situation to make such. We know that Old City and Hamidiya are in rebel control, but how much aside that is in which hands - I have no idea. EllsworthSK (talk) 23:33, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

I don't know but we you can start creating it based on you current infos and we can adjust it with time because I think it is the most significant battle since everything started there (Baba amr....). By the way how do we create such maps ?31.32.152.141 (talk) 00:42, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Nothing is happening in Homs. Rebels only control one district (Old City). There's hardly any fighting. There's no need for a map. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 00:47, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Old City is not a district, but an area. They also control Hamidiyah. Tim Marshall of Sky News confirmed it just few days ago. He also said that army control from south to Bab Sbaa, than its rebels without specifying northen districts. EllsworthSK (talk) 13:55, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

According to the latest sources in Cities and towns during the Syrian civil war, there is rebel presence in Old Homs, Khaldiya, Qusour and Jouret el-Shayah (Aljazeera from oct 5 says: “government forces were mainly firing rockets and heavy mortars at the rebel-held neighborhoods of Old Homs, Khaldiya, Qusour and Jouret el-Shayah” and FARS from dec 17 says: ”The army also attacked the terrorist hideouts in Hay al-Khaledia district of Homs”). So either the Independent article is not complete (as the journalist was visiting with the army), or some of these neighborhoods have been taken back by army since oct 5, which is something I have not seen a source for… Tradedia (talk) 04:00, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

I suggest we can improve maps, I think you should do a map for an overview of Syria as we did for Libya: we put a map of Syria, and we color in red areas held by the regime and in green areas held by rebels ( a map that is like that one about the southern front but we make it more general) can anyone do it please ? it will be better!31.32.152.141 (talk) 01:57, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

That's probably not a good idea. Maps are very hard to update due to lack of sources. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 02:08, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Why not? It will be more clear for everyone who is controlling what and I think we have sufficient resources to create a such map as the one that we had for Libya when we colored the entire map in either green or red. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.32.152.141 (talk) 02:58, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

We have Template:Syrian civil war detailed map, which gives control by town at fine detail. Problem is, for areas outside of Aleppo, Idlib, and Rif Dimashq provinces, there's little quality information on who controls what. Plus, there's the irksome problem of how to colour the unpopulated(=uncontrolled) desert, which caused some complaints in making the Libya maps. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 07:29, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

There is a lot of information available from reporters on both sides, but if one only allows Al Jazeera, CNN, Al Arabiya, this is limiting oneself and the article.NiederlandeFW (talk) 12:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

If you want to use FARS and SANA, you can go make a blog elsewhere. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 17:15, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Can someone tell me please how to make maps ? Alaa94frlb (talk) 11:54, 16 December 2012 (UTC) In control of rebels is Khaldyia neighborhood wich is bombarded continuely from regular army for several months.17:10, 16 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.107.244.157 (talk)

Hanano Base in center of Aleppo captured by Opposition

Should now be coloured green on map: Syrian fighters capture Aleppo infantry base in latest blow to the Assad regime. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.40.254.249 (talk) 19:42, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Editorial mistake. Infantry base is elsewhere, in northen Aleppo. Area is not even included in the map. EllsworthSK (talk) 20:12, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Looks like it. This article places this "Hanano" base "about 16km north of the centre", which is about where the Muslimiyeh academy is. Strange error though, wonder if there's also fighting by the Hanano base that got cross-wired in making the reports? ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 06:15, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

The Rif Aleppo (outskirts of) "Hanano" infantry base is not in the map.NiederlandeFW (talk) 12:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes. Correct. Thanks for repeating what two others have said already; it's very helpful and not redundant at all. The actual Hanano base near the city centre is actually on the map already. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 17:10, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

According to the main article would be two different bases, and both have been taken by the rebels. Yet it is confusing--Emiliokun5 (talk) 20:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Hanano barracks in center of the city was taken by rebels and subsequently lost to army. Hanano district is yet another thing. Infantry academy is not called Hanano. Probably editorial mistake. EllsworthSK (talk) 22:05, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Sakhour and Shaar

Sakhour and Shaar should now finally be changed (corrected!) to olive/brown, see the sources above. As stated by others, the road to the Int. Airport of Aleppo is still under Syrian Army control fully, so even the neighbourhoods in between should be given the olive/brown colour. I do not understand why certain participants are trying to block this change to olive/brown. The Syrian Arab Army offensives continue into Shaar and Sakhour and into Hanano, so there should be new red arrows inserted into this map. Finally change the map to the current situation please.NiederlandeFW (talk) 12:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Basic question if for southern districts you have no longer red or green arrows What is the meaning of olive color in that case? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pierredelacraudetoulon (talk • contribs) 15:55, 18 December 2012 (UTC) It would mean that there is no enough source to clarify who controls which area. Haghal Jagul (talk) 18:14, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

The brown colour designates that the quarter or neighbourhood is contested, sees fighting. This is the case in many more neighbourhoods than now displayed in this very outdated map. The map seems to be based on Dec 1, 2012. We're 3 week farther now. The rebel offensive in the northwest of Aleppo was repelled, Sakhour, Shaar and Hanano advanced into by Army units, and the road to Aleppo Airport is free. The airport is also used for Red Cross deliveries and for food supplies from Latakia and Beirout.NiederlandeFW (talk) 10:49, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Myassar

Apparently a rebel-sympathising Syrian man in Myassar shot and killed his government-sympathising Russian wife in an argument over Assad [45]. According to the article, there is "no police [referring to government forces, I'm guessing] presence" in the district at all, and gives the impression that rebels run the show. We currently have about a third of it as unclear/contested. Are there sources for that, or are we just basing that on the assumption that the airport must have government defences in the surrounding area? ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 23:14, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

The article says it happened in "rebel-held district of Maysar in southwestern Aleppo". Myassar Al-Myassar Jazmati (according to Wikimapia) is in the southeast. Are these different districts, or did AFP goof up? -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 23:34, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

Given that SW Aleppo is largely regime held (that's where that other major military academy is) and that I don't see anything remotely resembling "Maysar" there in Wikimapia, I'd be inclined to say that AFP done goofed. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 00:33, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

The airport and the road coming to it is all government controlled, according to the video posted earlier. Haghal Jagul (talk) 03:13, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

This murder by a Sunni Islamist FSA sympathizing man against his unarmed Russian-born wife (who was an Assad supporter herself) happened in a contested quarter. But as this map is outdated, showing no Syrian Arab Army moves into Sakhour and Shaar (which should be olive brown now), there is always this uncertainty. The road to the airport is in Syrian Army hands, but the neighbourhoods around are contested and firmly fought in. But this map still claims "fully under rebel control". Hanano has a front line, Sakhour has, Shaar has. But still claimed the rebels control them, which is not true. Maybe the neighbourhood was Shaar. The residents in the report say no police is present to act or keep order, but the rebels are not there fully either. The rebels are in the city centre south and northwest. The map needs SERIOUS UPDATING. Many more districts are to be coloured brown (olivebrown).NiederlandeFW (talk) 10:30, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

More video analysis

Regarding the western edge of the city. As I said earlier, and hopefully the debate is over, It's 100% clear that my initial assumption was wrong and the Al Assad school was not the one under siege. The map should not show anything in that area as contested. The assertion that the FSA is no where near that edge of the city is incorrect however. Just off the map, +/- 4 kilometers from the school, there has been fighting in Khan al asal off and on for a few weeks now. The closest heavy fighting appears to be 10 kilometers west in Kafr Naha. My info on Farafira (just north of the mosque and citadel) is correct. Multiple videos and sources back this up. The area is contested and there has been heavy fighting for over a week. Been out of town for a few days and getting caught up. Only new news of any real movement on the front appears to be an FSA assult on Tishreen. The news is too preliminary to suggest coloring the map as disputed. I'll post details if it appears to be more than just an isolated strike. GFS...— Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk • contribs)

Additional info on the western front. It appears the army administration college has been taken by the FSA. This is just south of Kafr Naha and in line with other reports. +/- 10 kilometers from Aleppo. http://yallasouriya.wordpress.com/2012/12/14/fsa-controls-the-administration-college-in-aleppo-%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%AC%D9%8A%D8%B4-2/ There are a LOT of military bases on the western border of the city, so it appears they are taking them one by one slowly. The FSA is still about 6km off the Aleppo map. GFS— Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk • contribs)

FSA is still just off the map in western Aleppo. I think from this video, it's safe to say that Khan Tuman has been taken and the army amunition depot is no more... Depot is about 1/2 km from the town. This is about 5km SSW of Al Asaad military academy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6JRFgsYlPoY#! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 06:16, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Heavy fighting in Maysaloun Neighborhood. This is the area just north of Jedida listed as Hamidiya. The footage does not show enough to be pinpointed by satellite so it should not be changed to contested just yet. I suspect the push is from the south, although the FSA was also pushing into Arkub. http://yallasouriya.wordpress.com/2012/12/17/death-and-destruction-in-aleppo-outskirts-of-maysaloon/

Other updates not yet worthy of posting. There is a significant increase in video coming from Khan al Asal, including one with a forest in the background. If accurate, it means they are near Al Assad Park, This puts them on the edge of the map, but not yet contesting or holding any ground. Also footage of an attack on the air force intelligence claiming to be from Zahraa. If true, Al Wafa has been infiltrated by the FSA. I'm still scratching my head about this since the reports from Zahraa are consistent over the last few weeks, but I can't for the life of me figure out how they are being supplied. Either Al Wafa has long been infiltrated, or one of the many surrounding bases might have fallen. Strange... GFS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 06:58, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikimapia shows quarter "Bustan az-Zahra" right north of Bustan al Qaser direction 7th April municipal stadion. Maybe some reports refer to Bustan az-Zahra instead of az-Zahraa south of Al Wafa. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.18.178.94 (talk) 10:39, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

re az-Zahraa: Note that some reports falsly locate the Air Force intelligence building in Zahraa instead of Al-Layramoun: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9644080/Syria-rebels-battle-for-control-of-regime-military-bases.html and related disussion on Yallasouriya: https://yallasouriya.wordpress.com/tag/zahraa/ Apparently some authors interprete Zahraa to include Al-Layramoun. Other reports may refer to Bustan az-Zahra. If anyone is aware of any report that unambigously refers to skirmishes in az-Zahra, would you please name it. Otherwise please consider to change Az-Zahraa to controlled by government. pirxl. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.18.178.94 (talk) 14:30, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

i agree with you. i've only heard of zahraa in the context of fights around the the Air Force intelligence building. So please change Az-Zahraa to controlled by government; it looks weird now as a olive colored rectangle in the middle of red as if the rebels got there by parachutes... Tradedia (talk) 23:11, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

 Done-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 16:09, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Area south of the Stadiums in Salaheddine appears to be in FSA control or contested. This video is filed towards the north and shows an assult on the steet which runs east of the stadium. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3u9AZ8iZGo GFS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.90.184.237 (talk) 20:38, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

4 other videos from the Stadium area, including 2 where I can identify the exact location. Area to the south is defanately FSA or contested. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 05:10, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

 Done-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 16:09, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Hanano barracks are now under rebel control link =) --80.29.28.67 (talk) 18:20, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Well that seems weired. Rebels already launched several offensives against this base but got repelled. I already saw this source but there's no confirmation. Amedjay (talk) 18:23, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

The base the article is referring to is not on the map. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 18:24, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah , I made another mistake ^^ Amedjay (talk) 18:46, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

Unverified footage Youtube videos and other sources. None of these videos had landmarks I could verify with the exception of one of Hnano base one which was filmed in front of the cemetary to the east. Fighting from Hamdaniyah district #4. This is a large district that surrounds the south and west edge of Al Assad military school. Not surprising since video has been coming from Khan Al Asal for weeks and Khan Tuman for a few days, both about 4km to the S and W. Unclear where footage was from. Recent footage from Midan, taken by FSA, no signs of life, no sound of fighting.. It's unclear if it's scouting of gov't held areas, or disputed. Southern Hamidiya footage showed heavy destruction, FSA moving about. Along with footage from the north (maysaloun) and east (Arquob) of Hnano base, I believe the change of color showing the entire area around it to be disputed is accurate. If the Maysaloun footage is verified, the quadrant to the NW is also disputed with an FSA presence... in which case Hnano Base is fully surrounded for the moment unless the SAA has taken southern Arkub, which was clearly disputed as of about 10 days ago. ~GFS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 06:52, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

Also have seen videos and reports regarding Hnano.. I believe there is some confusion. A base on the edges of Aleppo fell a few months ago. I believe the footage has been recirculating and causing confusion. Footage I believe to be just 1-2 days old show the Hnano base in downtown aleppo with heavy damage, but under SAA control. Per my comments above, I believe it's at least mostly surrounded at this time.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk • contribs)

Is true that rebels storm the 135 brigade and take control of them?This may be verified in videos uploaded from Ugarit news.The brigade 135 is the third military base that rebels take control after regiment 46 and the brigade 111.Who control the city of Afreen of Aleppo governate? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.107.230.235 (talk) 23:08, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

I think there may have been some crosswiring of information during news reporting. Hanano barracks is indeed in central Aleppo—I recall reports of the base being briefly stormed by FSA, but govt troops regained control quickly in any event. The one outside the city that was taken is not called Hanano—reports of fighting near multiple bases were likely conflated. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 00:02, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

The map should be changed back to show Hnano base as contested. I understand that there has been a lot of confusion, however very recent footage shows the base at least partially, and I believe currently almost completely surrounded based upon footage from Maysaloun, Arkub, and the cemetary to the east. I think that showing the base as a Red Square, but the area around in the olive disputed would be the most accurate. I'll post links to the footage if I have time later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 03:21, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

IMPORTANT! !!! : [46] plzzz take it in confederation it is a report of al jazeera channel saying who is controlling what in aleppo it is in arabic so someone should translate it!! Alaa94frlb (talk) 03:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

According to that regime controls 40% of the city - Hamdaniya, Jameeliya, Saadallah Al-Jabri square, Zahraa, Suleiman, Aziziyah (that would be this http://wikimapia.org/#lat=36.2106931&lon=37.1527001&z=15&l=0&m=b&search=halab) while rebels control Hanano, Sakhur, beginning of Neirab and some others that are not on the map. Not really much different from what we have here. EllsworthSK (talk) 13:29, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Can anybody tell me who control Afreen and Safirah districts of Aleppo governorate? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.107.225.130 (talk) 14:57, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Afrin is controlled by the kurdish militias while Safira is under syrian army's control. hope it helps. Amedjay (talk) 15:48, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Rebels take control of batalion base close to Mangh airport and now are besegied it.Where is located Mangh military airport?

Just south of Azaz. EllsworthSK (talk) 17:18, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

no videos, but several interesting reports. fighting in Al Mohafaza and Aziziyeh as well as the Syrian Quarter. This is speculation but probably coming from Zuhoor and Ashrafiyeh.. Numerous videos show infiltration by the FSA in Zuhoor, and recent videos show rallies in Ashrafiyeh holding FSA flags. Also new but unconfirmable, video from New Aleppo and Al Nasr showing fighting. This is particularly interesting because it shows the infiltration from the west of aleppo. The FSA appears to be making headway on all fronts. I suspect, when only 1 or 2 crumble, the city will fall. A few days, weeks, or even 2-3 months and it's over. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 07:39, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Still waiting to find confirmable video footage but more interesting reports trickling in. 1. Fighting in west New Aleppo. 2. fighting in Tishreen, major assult on Al Mohallab military base there. 3. Reports of limited fighting on Nile Street. 4. Fighting in Zahara and air force intelligence building. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.90.184.237 (talk) 17:41, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Internet has been out in Aleppo for 4-5 days, so not alot coming out. New reports of fighting indicate an FSA offensive in Ramouseh in the south. Khan al Wazir near the citadel. The area of the mosque to the west of the citadel should be shown as contested per multiple videos and unofficial chatter. There have also been reports of minor fighting deep into SAA held territory in the city along with posts by newly formed rebel groups. These areas include New Aleppo, Hamandaniya, Zaharaa, muhafaza, tishreen, and reports of sporadic gunfire near nile street. Ashrafiyeh is contested, it's a mixed neighborhood with an FSA presence.. it should probably be shown as half kurd/half contested. very recent heavy fighting reported there. GFS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.104.169.68 (talk) 07:33, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Areas south of airport.

The areas of Nairab and Mafafet Al-Nairab are coloured red on the map but there hasn't been any source of fightings or governement prescence, should we change that? Amedjay (talk) 20:30, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

This source says that FSA has surrounded Kuweires, Neyrab and Menagh airports - are any of those the one on the map? it also mentions an air force intelligence building. This article says it's the one in Aleppo. Don't know how reliable any of these are. Esn (talk) 10:23, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

Well , only the nairab airport is on the map. Amedjay (talk) 21:14, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

First source cited is an interview with the head of the aleppo military council, exact word used is 'surrounding', like they're in the process of doing so, and coming from an opposition military leader, probably doesn't count as proof positive that they've actually got the airport surrounded on all sides. 65.25.199.132 (talk) 05:42, 26 December 2012 (UTC)Mango

Aleppo international Airport is conducting his flight schedule normal. Doing so, the army has the control of the road to the city.Today flight schedule of Damascus airport that shows the flight to Aleppo.[47]--Dimitrish81 (talk) 09:59, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Yes Everyone have been agreeing and providing sources indicating that Aleppo Airport and the road coming to it are safe and therefore these changes must be made to the map. Haghal Jagul (talk) 18:27, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Froom video uploaded by ugarit news reust as Amiryia neighborhood is liberated by free syrian army,is it true? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.107.230.172 (talk) 21:49, 29 December 2012 (UTC)

Hey guys, according to this recent report, "the airport is the main way for [Syrian military] forces in the city to get supplies". This seems to make the impression that the govt stronghold in the southeast is not disconnected to the govt territory in the west. If that's the case, I'm guessing the rebels don't control that central southern part. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 03:17, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

They just take the road south of Sheikh Saeed and they pass by Ramouseh industrial zone. Amedjay (talk) 10:53, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

If you look closely in wikimapia there's a highway that goes south of Sheikh Saeed , we can't see it on the map and that's "the free supplying road" guess that puts an end to all this.... --Amedjay (talk) 18:07, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Revamped map

I don't understand why was my completely improved map rejected and RV'ed? I added all the major districts that were missing, removed "areas" which are part of the major districts i just mentioned, I also respelled some of the districts to make them correct (all based on wikimapia) and I adjusted the font of the districts to match the area of each respective district...isn't all of this a good thing? so why was I RV'ed? I also added the military intelligence HQ in New Aleppo district. The only change to the colors of the map was making the depopulated area in the extreme north of Aleppo turn green b/c it is part of the opposition Layramoon district. I want a good explanation for why my generous contribution was RV'ed or else I'll readd it. thanks Moester101 (talk) 23:11, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I think Commons is lagging again. This might have caused some confusion. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 18:21, 31 December 2012 (UTC)

Actually I'm looking at the map again, and apparently Lothar von Richthofen RV'ed my edit saying it was "An eyesore". First that's an opinionated statement, not a rational reason to RV my more accurate pic. Second, I explained the whole reasoning behind my edit in the paragraph above, in other words my edit had purpose behind it. I'm going to reupload the pic with a few adjustments since my reasoning in the paragraph above beats the term "an eyesore"...I'll try to make it look nicer when I reupload it. Moester101 (talk) 02:29, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

DONE! One more thing, can anyone confirm the status of the Syriac district as Kurdish-controlled? cause I'm pretty sure it's under govt control. Moester101 (talk) 02:38, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

I think the eyesore Lothar was referring to was the inconsistent font size and font type. Some of the district names look "stretched". You could've can increase the size of the name by using bigger font.-- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 02:43, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

I see...well I've pretty much fixed that with the newest upload. If anything still looks stretched then please feel free to fix it, but just please don't outright RV to the previous version which is soooo incomplete (this message is for everyone reading this, not just to you Mr. Future). Anyways, do you have any info on the status of Syriac Quarter? I'm positive its in govt control. And also Shqayyef industrial district (in the north) is probably also in govt control since it has 2 huge army bases which have not yet been attacked by FSA, so we should probably recolor Shqayyef red, right? Moester101 (talk) 06:52, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

I guess Lothar reverted it because there was too many districts that's why he said " an eyesore" also why did you revert the districts I added? Happy new year neverless. --Amedjay (talk) 12:39, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Also , you changed the place of some districts but they were at the good place, you changed the color of some without justification. --Amedjay (talk) 13:09, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Sorry if I changed too many things, but I go off of what I see with regards to the battles on the news and youtube. For example I had heard that FSA completely pulled out of Rasafeh to the PYD (hence why I changed it to yellow) I didn't know it was contested. But I guess your changes were good, thanks. Moester101 (talk) 18:24, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Status of Syriac district and Shqayyef district

Hey, anyone got a clue if Syriac district is really in kurdish hands? Becuase I'm sure it's in govt hands. Also, Shqayyef district in the north has 2 giant army bases which have not been attacked at all by FSA, so we should probably turn Shqayyef into red, right? Moester101 (talk) 18:27, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure, I haven't seen any news concerning those districts. You can change it if you wish. -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 18:35, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

We propably have to wait for Shqayyef as for Syriac , I coloured it olive and I added a red arrow. --Amedjay (talk) 20:20, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

Army Brigade 80

lol just a day after showing that the FSA are attacking army base of brigade 80 on the map, the FSA have already begun overrunning the base, taking a part of it and advancing [[48]] Moester101 (talk) 08:37, 2 January 2013 (UTC)

Yup , they started a campaign against airbases to weaken the airforce. That would allow them to advance way more faster --Amedjay (talk) 14:59, 3 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, fighting in the base of Brigade 80 is confirmed by today's news. [49] -- FutureTrillionaire (talk) 22:32, 3 January 2013 (UTC)