Category talk:Songs about presidents
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Emptied
[edit]This was previously emptied and then re-populated, see User_talk:Richhoncho#Please_mind_the_hierarchies. – Fayenatic London 12:20, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- User:Fayenatic london, would you now please review each member article to ensure correct relationship between parent and subcat. I checked one and it is in both. I would do it, but I feel you do not appreciate my interpretation of WP Guidelines. Thanks for your help in this matter --Richhoncho (talk) 12:30, 24 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Richhoncho: I see that most of the members of Category:Songs about Nelson Mandela predate his election as president, and may be songs about a political prisoner rather than songs about him as president. This proportion is probably going to be unusual, i.e. most songs about a person who became a president are probably written after they achieved that role. I was thinking of moving the category back up to Songs about politicians. However, this is liable to be reverted, as the niceties of such distinctions are likely to be lost on later editors, and after all the songs are about a man who did become president. Your thoughts about this? – Fayenatic London 09:47, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Fayenatic london:My rationale for emptying/moving presidents cat was that Presidents was a narrow concept, and generally just a subcat of politicans, if we have 'Presidents' then why not 'Prime Ministers' or Cabinet Ministers, or all the other titles Politicians use, and it wasn't really big enough to warrant separation. My point avove is that members of 'Presidents' should NOT also be a member of Politicians in your preferred scheme, in your re-assigning you allowed that to happen.
- Political prisoners and Presidents are not sub-cats and I would view on a case by case but each song shouldn't be in multiple 'songs by' cats, because then it certainly wouldn't be defining, would it?
- Personally I'd move the whole shebang into cultural depictions of XXX where suitable and anything which does not meet WP guidelines (if it is not mentioned in the text it cannot be defining, WP:CATDEF) I'd remove the cat altogether. Who wants to wade through a category looking for information that isn't there? I don't, do you? --Richhoncho (talk) 10:25, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
- I don't agree with some of your points, e.g. IMHO a song can be about more than one topic at once. The narrowness of the topic for "songs about presidents" also applies to its parent Category:Works about presidents & sibling Category:Films about presidents, and I would have no objection to nominating them as a group; but it was invidious to the parent to remove one medium at a time from its contents. – Fayenatic London 10:32, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
- Selective unmentioned disagreement. FWIW, I agree that category schemes should follow WHERE NECESSARY. It really wasn't necessary to have a separate presidents cat for songs and to use that as justification of your reversion is straw clutching - and from an editor who is so hung up on some WP guidelines but not all guidelines, specifically WP:V, WP:OR, WP:SHAREDNAME and WP:CATDEF just to name a few. Now, please, as requested, and the only thing I requested is remove Songs about politicians from those articles you reinserted in Presidents. --Richhoncho (talk) 12:35, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
- I don't agree with some of your points, e.g. IMHO a song can be about more than one topic at once. The narrowness of the topic for "songs about presidents" also applies to its parent Category:Works about presidents & sibling Category:Films about presidents, and I would have no objection to nominating them as a group; but it was invidious to the parent to remove one medium at a time from its contents. – Fayenatic London 10:32, 25 March 2022 (UTC)
- @Richhoncho: I see that most of the members of Category:Songs about Nelson Mandela predate his election as president, and may be songs about a political prisoner rather than songs about him as president. This proportion is probably going to be unusual, i.e. most songs about a person who became a president are probably written after they achieved that role. I was thinking of moving the category back up to Songs about politicians. However, this is liable to be reverted, as the niceties of such distinctions are likely to be lost on later editors, and after all the songs are about a man who did become president. Your thoughts about this? – Fayenatic London 09:47, 25 March 2022 (UTC)