Category talk:Redirects to template namespace

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This category was nominated for deletion on 18 January 2011. The result of the discussion was withdrawn.

This category was nominated for deletion on 21 February 2011. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Redirect

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Redirect template

This category has now survived two CFDs. It needs a redirect template to populate it. I will create one at Template:R to template unless there is a real reason why I should not. McLerristarr | Mclay1 03:23, 2 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, before you do, I think we should continue our discussion from the archived CFD. I think the closing admin was pretty blunt with the settle this fight elsewhere decision, however I sincerely hope that nobody's sensibilities were hurt by that. You deserve a response, and I realize that the ball's in my court. I'm still trying to understand the need for the various types of tracking we seem to be uncovering, so I would appreciate it if you would hold off just a little while so I can finish my study, okay? — Paine Ellsworth ( CLIMAX ) 07:56, 2 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

PS. Here are the last two posts of the achived discussion:

Brought from the CFD2 discussion

Well, maybe I wasn't really misusing {{R to template}}, but it probably was originally designed to populate a category that would hold all of the T:xx redirects that are now found in the parent category, Category:Cross-namespace redirects. Now, Mclay1, you need to take a good look at the {{R to portal}}, the {{R to project}} and the others. They all populate SUB-CATEGORIES of the parent category, Category:Cross-namespace redirects, and so, they are all ONLY supposed to be added to redirects that cross from the main ARTICLE NAMESPACE (or perhaps another namespace) into other namespaces. In that parent category are P:xx, H:xx, C:xx, and MOS:xx shortcut redirects that should eventually populate the sub-categories, along with T:xx shortcut redirects that need to be put in a template sub-category. These are all pseudo-namespaces and cross-namespace redirects, and so, the sub-categories that I mentioned before are their rightful "homes". So when you look more closely, the redirect-category templates {{R to category}}, {{R to portal}}, {{R to help}} and {{R to project}} are ONLY supposed to be added to cross-namespace redirects. — Paine Ellsworth ( CLIMAX ) 17:45, 28 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No, I'm right. Template:R to portal categories into Category:Redirects to portals or Category:Redirects to portal space. Category:Redirects to portal space is a subcategory of Category:Cross-namespace redirects but Category:Redirects to portals is not. It's the same for all the others. Category:Cross-namespace redirects isn't only for redirects from the main namespace anyway, it's for any cross-namespace redirects. McLerristarr | Mclay1 17:59, 28 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I also think that closing was "pretty blunt". Worse, it was incorrect. Because the question is not what to do with the templates. If we want this category, then we will know what to do with the templates. The question was really whether we want this category.

On the other hand. If you two are insistent on populating this category, go ahead and give it a try. Add detection to all the templates, and try to relocate part of the parent category into it. I do not see any real purpose in it, but don't think it is worth the fight. Actually, I like the sense of order it imposes. I'm an old mathematician, after all. Debresser (talk) 09:06, 2 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Continued discussion from CFD2

Okay, my research has convinced me that I'm right, Mclay1. If you place {{R to portal}} on a redirect, then it must be a cross-namespace redirect (CNR). If it is not a CNR, then you would be populating the parent Category:Cross-namespace redirects with non CNRs by way of its sub-category Category:Redirects to portal space. So if there are any redirects in that sub-category that are not CNRs, then they must be removed from that sub-category.

(By the way, that new cat you created, Category:Redirects to the main namespace, did not list as a sub-cat of Category:Cross-namespace redirects because you didn't put a needed space in the category like this:

[[Category:Cross-namespace redirects| Main]]

Note the space between the pipe (|) and the word "Main". If you do not include that space, then the category will not appear as a subcategory in the parent category. I fixed that for you with this edit.)

I have to go to a doctor's appt., so I will continue this later. But be aware, that the confusion we have experienced with these cats and Rcats is due only to the fact that whoever named these items initially "knew" what he or she was doing, and so did not feel that more explicit and clear names would be required. All of these need to be renamed, so that future editors, like you and me, don't go through all this again. If these tracking categories are important and need to be used to track CNRs, then they should be named in a way that reflects that tracking duty. — Paine Ellsworth ( CLIMAX ) 15:53, 4 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK, first of all, I was one of the main editors of {{R to portal}} etc. and I know how they work. Look at Category:Redirects to portals – the category is for redirects within the portal namespace and it is populated by {{R to portal}}. If {{R to portal}} is added to a page it will categorise it into Category:Redirects to portals or Category:Redirects to portal space depending on its namespace. Most namespaces have two categories in this way, both populated by the same template.

Thank you for correcting the sort key in Category:Redirects to the main namespace; however it was already in Category:Cross-namespace redirects – it was just sorted under M rather than a space. Adding a space at the start of the sort key sorts it at the top of the category. McLerristarr | Mclay1 08:13, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for explaining, and I see now how you are cleverly using the same Rcat to populate the two different cats depending upon which namespace they're in. However, do you see how the names of the categories need to be changed? I think you do, because of the way you named Category:Redirects to template from non-template namespace. So do you agree that the other subcats of Category:Cross-namespace redirects require more descriptive names, too? — Paine Ellsworth ( CLIMAX ) 17:46, 5 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't name Category:Redirects to template from non-template namespace; I would prefer it were called Category:Redirects to the template namespace. How can the names be more descriptive? The way interpret the names is that if the category is for redirects going to a particular namespace, then the redirects must be coming from another namespace. McLerristarr | Mclay1 10:55, 9 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Then why have a template like {{R to portal}} populate a cat like Category:Redirects to portals? What is the difference exactly between that cat and Category:Redirects to portal space? You and I know the difference, but not all editors will instantly look down at the bottom of a cat page to see what the parent cat is. There should be something in the name of the cat to indicate that it is a subcat of the CNR parent cat. Category:Redirects to portal from non-portal namespace, Category:Redirects to help from non-help namespace, or something similar, are needed for future editors to (1) know what they are for, and (2) know what they are so they won't try to delete them. — Paine Ellsworth ( CLIMAX ) 07:07, 11 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]