Category talk:Pharmacists from the Russian Empire

This category was nominated for renaming on 3 December 2023. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Do not merge

The Russian Empire was a multi-national empire where a large percentage of the residents did not consider themselves Russian. It would be best not to merge categories gor this into the Russian category. They are clearly disrltinct things.John Pack Lambert (talk) 22:11, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Johnpacklambert: then say that on the discussion at CfD. Edward-Woodrow • talk 22:45, 3 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am not allowed to post on CfD. However I am allowed to post on catehory talk pages. So I posted the thoughts here.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:15, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why are you not allowed to post at CfD? That sounds wrong.

Is it alright if I copy your comment here into the CfD discussion, so that people can hear your views? Edward-Woodrow • talk 01:52, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

John Pack Lambert has a topic ban. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Conduct in deletion-related editing I've provided a link to this comment (Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 November 3#Category:Pharmacists from the Russian Empire). However, he's made this argument (and keeps making this argument) for Russian empire categories, and it does't reflect the consensus on how Russia as an entiry is treated. (It isn't the case that the Russian categories only exist for post soviet union russia. It's a large, long reaching concept that is used to describe russian people across numerous periods. Category:Russian people by period. Mason (talk) 15:14, 4 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Russian categories should only exist for post-Soviet Russian, and probably should be renamed to Category:People from the Russian Federation. Our current attempt to is leading to covering many unlike things, that are only vaguely related under the name "Russian", and tends to reinforce the common but incorrect usage of "Russian" for anyone from the Soviet Union. It should be clear what the category contents are, and they would be far more clear if we renamed all of them to People from the Russian Federation.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:29, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Default calling all residents and subjects of the Russian Empire "Russian" is not acceptable. In 2004 I took a course of the history of Russian from a history professor with a PhD in Russian history, and he emphasized this, that most immigrants from the Russian Empire to the United States would not have been called "Russian" either by themselves or by others, they would have been identified by various ethnic identifiers, but they were from the Russian Empire. The clear consensus of academic discourse is to not refer to people from the Russian Empire as just "Russian", but to call them as being from the Russian Empire and use their name. This is the acceptable and standard practice by experts on the subject.John Pack Lambert (talk) 17:40, 13 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]