Category talk:Former Scientologists

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This category was nominated for deletion on 1 January 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

This category was nominated for deletion on 23 July 2007. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Verification

The problem with this list is that some of the persons either have no affiliation (former or otherwise) with CoS even mentioned in their respective articles, or their status as Scientologists isn't clarified. I brought this up in a few articles; see the talk pages for J.D. Salinger, Olivia D'Abo, Soleil Moon Frye, Quentin Hubbard. In the article on Mimi Rogers it says that her status with the Church is "unknown", therefore, I removed her from the category. Alcarillo 15:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

J. D. Salinger is kind of an odd case. There's evidence he tried about a half a dozen religions including Christian Science, Advaita Vedanta, Zen, the teachings of Edgar Cayce, and yes Scientology. How many of these he formally joined I don't know.--T. Anthony 18:14, 8 January 2007 (UTC) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by T. Anthony (talk • contribs) 18:14, 8 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

I came to this talk page curious about the same issue. I agree that if a verifiable claim of a former affiliation with Scientology isn't made in a person's article they shouldn't be categorized here. Category:Anti-Semitic people has a nice set of rules. There are also some people here (Katharine McPhee, for instance) who dabbled in Scientology, but never actually joined the religion. I wouldn't call myself a former Presbyterian because I once went to a service at a Presbyterian church. --djrobgordon 23:24, 15 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Defining characteristic

I will remove people from this category for whom their previous association with the Church of Scientology is not a defining characteristic. See pending Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_23#People_by_former_religion. Andries 13:53, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That won't be too many due to the nature of Scientology and the citation requirements of Wikipedia, especially BLP. It is considered an ethics "high crime" to leave publicly, and they "aren't a turn the other cheek religion", so most people leaving quietly drift away from it. The quiet ones won't have a reference to be cited that they left or that they ever signed a contract/release for Scientology services in the first place. And without references, they shouldn't be on this list. The ones on this list left publicly, are referenced, and many said things critical of Scientology with the automatic response from the church.

I would argue against any interpretation of defining characteristic as being "the most important thing in their lives". That would imply that the people on the list can only be nobodies except that they left Scientology at some point. If so, Catch-22 would be that the people on the list could be removed from Wiki as non-notable. (I'm not suggesting you are, just stating it in case some future editor with an agenda tries to twist it that way.) AndroidCat 15:06, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I understand. I can add related "or related to their notability". Please note that without the extra stated conditions the category may get deleted which is against my wishes and beyond my power to prevent. You may be interested in voting at the pending pending Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_July_23#People_by_former_religion.Andries 15:09, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Down the memory hole?

Since this article is a generated page, there is no way to see a diff or change log of who has been removed and to see the "relevant discussions on the talk pages of those individual articles" (re the tag) to see/argue the reasoning for it short of having a print copy and checking it against the current page or noticing that someone is gone. If anyone plans to do any major trimming, posting a list on this page might be nice. AndroidCat 15:18, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, I did not think of it. I am busy removing some. I have already removed the folowing persons from the category.

Bárbara Carrera

Kate Bornstein

Candice Bergen

But again, please understand. It is either this or no category at all. Andries 15:21, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! (I've got a printed copy now.) I was worried because there are a few celebrities where their leaving was notable but hardly a defining characteristic their lives, such as William Burroughs. As for no category, if this list becomes identical to "list of former members of Scientology who are now active critics", then I'll push for its deletion myself. AndroidCat 15:34, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]