Category talk:Converts to Reconstructionist Judaism

Contested deletion

This category should not be speedy deleted as being unpopulated, because...it was not empty until it was unpopulated without discussion by another user. If that user doesn't like this category for whatever reason, they can put in a deletion request with a discussion. --Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 15:09, 9 May 2022 (UTC)

@User:Orah torah, I have previously objected to your attempt to unilaterally empty and delete this category without any input or discussion. I am requesting that you leave James Newton Howard, Sandra Lawson, Patrick Aleph, and Hannah Nathans within the category until you nominate the category for deletion. You can provide your reason for deletion (no reason has been provided yet) and other editors can chime in. Thank you. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 02:29, 10 May 2022 (UTC)

You have no basis or proof of the type of converion some one does. That is between the person and the rabbi. Also no one converts to a particular type of Judaism. Please stop with these edits. Lastly just because someone is a Reconstructionist does not mean they had a reconstructionist conversion. And as I said before no one converts to a type of Judaism. Orah torah (talk) 01:34, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

I am new to making edits and I am happy to discuss and these categories are false and not in line with Jewish law and Judaism. Orah torah (talk) 01:45, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

@User:Orah torah Welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for engaging. I was previously typing the comment below when you posted this comment. In response to your claim that "just because someone is a Reconstructionist does not mean they had a reconstructionist conversion", I would point out that the page for Patrick Aleph specifically states that he had a Reconstructionist conversion. I'm aware that a person may be born Jewish and be a Reconstructionist, or be a convert to Judaism who later becomes a Reconstructionist Jew, but someone like Patrick Aleph seems to be someone who converted through the Reconstructionist movement. I disagree that "no one converts to a type of Judaism", as the vast majority of converts are converting through the four main movements of Judaism (Orthodox, Conservative, Reform, and Reconstructionist) and the type of conversion they undergo effects their life and practice in many ways. I personally have known Reform converts who have not been allowed to be counted for a minyan at a Conservative synagogue. Whether I agree with that exclusion is irrelevant. What matters is that the movements and rabbis affiliated with those movements have decided that these distinctions do matter. Another example: it's important enough that what "type" of Judaism you convert to could potentially determine whether or not you are allowed to make aliyah and become an Israeli citizen, because the Orthodox rabbinate maintains a central position within Israeli Jewish society. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 02:03, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

@2603:6080:240f:7cdd:1496:1f93:539b:2a3c - the IP user wrote the following while reverting my edit on Sandra Lawson..."You have no basis or proof of the type of converion some one does. That is betweent the person and the rabbi. Also no one converts to a particular form of Judaism. Please stop with these edits". The same comment was left under @User:Orah torah's account while reverting an edit to Patrick Aleph. I will not edit war or try to revert these edits. My response is that there are many pages on Wikipedia with sources showing that a person has specifically undergone a Reform conversion, an Orthodox conversion, a Conservative conversion, a Reconstructionist conversion, etc. Just as there are many sources for people who are known to have converted to various denominations of Christianity, Islam, and so forth. Just as it is relevant whether a person converted Sunni or Shia, or whether a person converted Catholic or Presbyterian, it is also important what denomination of Judaism a person converted to. I disagree with the claim that a person doesn't convert to "a particular form of Judaism". It is in fact so important, that for example, a known Reform convert would not be allowed to be counted for an Orthodox minyan, or a known Reconstructionist convert may or may not be called to the Bima in a Conservative synagogue. What type of Judaism a person converts to impacts many areas of that person's life and practice. It is in that sense quite relevant. Whether or not I or anyone else agrees or disagrees with a particular denomination's interpretation of halakha is not relevant. I would like to reject the claim that to acknowledge denominational differences within Judaism somehow "shows predujudice", rather than acknowledges the diversity of Jewish belief and practice. I am pinging @User:Liz. I hope that I am addressing this satisfactorily. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 01:52, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Hello. Thank you for engaging as well. And understanding that I am new to this.

Orthodox judaism is the outlier by not recognizing other conversions and the Orthodox movement does not make up the majority of Jews. I do see now that Patrick Aleph's page said he converted through the Reconstructionist movement so I'm happy to leave that one alone. I still stand by what I said, people convert to Judaism not a stream of judaism. Bet Dins (Jewish courts) are often made up of rabbis from various streams of Judaism. The state of Israel recognizes conversions from all streams of Judaism because Allyah is determined by the state aka secular law not the rabbinic court. The state of Israel does have requirements for Allyah but those requirements are not about whether someone had a Reform, Reconstructionist, Conservative, Renewal, Humanist etc conversion. I am going to request that all of the categories be removed that relate to someone's conversion to a particular stream of Judaism, those categories in my opinion are meant to lesson the legitamacy of ones conversion and create bias. When someone converts they are Jewish period and we are not allowed to separate out the convert. I understand that Wikipedia is not a Jewish platform but what is written here affects the life of those we are writing about. Also I think if one is going to edit a page that someone converted to the Reconstructionist movement there should be something that backs it up and I have found nothing that says that Sandra Lawson, Hannah Nathans or James Newton Howard had a Reconstructionist conversion or converted through the Reconstructionust movement, just because they are Reconstructionist and Sandra Lawson is a Reconstructionust rabbi we don't know about their Bet Din and how they converted. Lastly a quick google search shows that Hannah Nathans was ordained through the renewal movement by Rabbi Zalman Schachter and she currently serves as the rabbi of a Reconstructionust synagogue. I think we should have proof of someones conversion to a particular stream before we list it on Wikipedia. Orah torah (talk) 10:58, 11 May 2022 (UTC)

Another point the Converative movement of Judaism does recognizes conversions from other streams of Judaism, they do not recognize patrilineal Jews descent. So if someone converted to Judaism from another stream the Conversavative movement would recognize the person's conversion and they could be called to the Bima. There was a time when the Reform Movement stop requiring the Mikvah but that is not the case anymore. Orah torah (talk) 11:07, 11 May 2022 (UTC)