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Add I-League 2nd Division in fully Professional League

Hi, There was a discussion earlier regarding the deletion of a player wiki profile named Asrar Rehbar who plays in the I-League 2nd Division for Bangalore United. The reason given was that I-League 2nd Division isn't included in the list of Professional Leagues. I would like to argue here that the I-League 2nd Division fulfils all the criteria of a professional league and the winner qualifies for the I-League. Players are on a long term contract earning basic income required in India. On the wiki page of I-League 2nd Division as well it's mentioned that it is a Professional League. It has been confirmed by the All India Football Federation as well. Could verify the same and add the league to the list so that the article doesn’t need to be deleted. Also not forgetting that Sevilla FC from La Liga have an exclusive partnership Tie-Up with Bangalore United who play in the I-League 2nd Division. Attaching the press release from Sevilla FC : — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs) 18:15, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Please can you provide a reliable source to back up all of those statements? The fact that one of the clubs is partnered with Sevilla does not make the entire league fully professional. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 20:10, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

Adding my two cents here. The 2nd Division is not fully-professional. The season isn't even half a season, a lot of the guys have second jobs. One club having a tie up doesn't make an entire league fully-professional. --ArsenalFan700 (talk) 21:26, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

I agree with ArsenalFan700- the last full season had 10-16 games for teams, and lasted 3 months. No way this is an FPL, and there would need to be very strong sourcing to prove this. Joseph2302 (talk) 11:03, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

User talk:Spiderone The I-League 2nd Division is usually held from January and goes on till April, before starting the 2nd Division every club also participates in their respective state leagues and have players on long term contracts, some players join these club during the January transfer window specially for the I-League 2nd Division. All the footballers associated to the 2nd Division Clubs are full time Footballers, rare case there might be someone is having an additional job. Due to the Covid this season had a short 2nd Division campaign to get a team for the I-League. The wiki page of the I-League 2nd Division also says its a Professional League, if its incorrect shouldn’t that be changed as well? Also there is no evidence or source which says I-League 2nd Division is not a professional league. The verification could be done if someone drops a mail to AIFF asking about the same. The State Leagues are considered as a Semi-Professional League, everything above it falls under the Professional Category. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs) 05:12, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

ArsenalFan700 I would request you to check with AIFF whether the I-League 2nd Division is falling under the fully professional league bracket, also rarely theres a club who build there team only for 2nd Divisions, most of the teams play throughout the season have players contracted for beyond 1 years. few clubs don't form the majority right. I know of atleast 12 Clubs who played the I-league 2nd Division last year before the Pandemic hit India, had players on multiple year contracts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs) 05:12, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

You didn't answer the question, @Footballbrain01:. Do you have a source to say that the second division is a professional league because we can't add that league without a source stating that it's professional and no the one you provided doesn't count as their no mentions of that professionalism there. HawkAussie (talk) 06:00, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

@Footballbrain01:, the All India Football Federation is a primary source so that wouldn't even matter. What does matter is whether this is a league where every team is comprised of players who make their living playing football 'alone'. Just from looking at the 2019–20 season, ARA FC is definitely not fully-professional. The play a few months in the 2nd Division and then the state league which only lasts a few months. AU Rajasthan FC is the same. 2nd Division for a few months and then a non-existent state league. This isn't like Brazil where you have fully-fleshed out professional state leagues. And then you have a bunch of ISL reserve teams who are most certainly NOT fully-professional and are just youth players. --ArsenalFan700 (talk) 13:50, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

@HawkAussie: Clubs participating In the I – League 2 nd division are licenced by the AIFF, a licence which is only granted to them once they fulfil a certain criterion. The club licencing rules are available on the AIFF website for everyone to view. It is only once these rules are fulfilled by the club, that a license to compete in the I-League 2 nd Division is granted to them.

In order to be a “fully professional club” in accordance to the WiKi Project Football/Fully Professional Leagues - (A) virtually all adult players are paid a salary that they can live on and do not need additional sources of income (B) This salary should be a living wage in the nation where the league is based, and preferably around or above the average or median national wage. (C)  The professionalism of the league should also extend to sufficient contact hours, and facilities, equipment, expenses and other support as necessary to allow full-time pursuit of the sport. It is here that I would like to point out that if one goes through the licensing guidelines, you’d find that all the requirements of a fully professional league are in some way or form a requirement for all clubs competing in the I-League 2 nd Division to be granted a license. ALL CLUBS adhere to these guidelines, otherwise a license to compete in the competition simply wouldn’t be granted to them. What is to be understood here is that the I-League 2 nd Division is a part of the professional Indian football setup, wherein professional teams compete, that comprise of professional players. It is, as its Wikipedia page says – “The second tier of the Indian football league system”. Now the second tier of the Indian football league system surely can’t be semi-professional or amateur? I am attaching the link to the I-League 2 nd Division Club Licensing Rules on the AIFF website for reference. https://www.the-aiff.com/media/uploads/2019/12/AIFF-CLUB-LICENSING-CRITERIA-2nd-DIVISION-LEAGUE-2014-15.pdf

Why can't it be semi-professional? That PDF says that professional players must have a written contract but I can't see anything that says that the players need to be professional. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 19:06, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

Exactly. It offers no indication to the professionalism of players themselves, and how much they earn. Also, why do you say that "the second tier of the Indian football league system surely can’t be semi-professional or amateur?". The first tier of the Lebanese football league system is semi-pro. The fact that it's in the Indian football league system doesn't mean much. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 19:22, 7 March 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone: As mentioned in the below article, the definition of a semi-pro league is "Semi-professional sports are sports in which athletes are not participating on a full-time basis."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-professional_sports#:~:text=Semi%2Dprofessional%20sports%20are%20sports,a%20full%2Dtime%20professional%20athlete.

Now as I have stated before, apart from a few teams like ARA FC or AU Rajasthan whose states aren't upto to the mark in terms of Football, Can't be forming the majority right? there are exceptions everywhere. Apart from these teams, majority of the teams have players on over a year contract and players are earning monthly salary for upto 10-12 months as per the contract signed. Also to be a Professional League, the players should be full time Footballers right? Even in the case of ARA FC, the players are not part-time footballers, they are full time and when they are not under duty of ARA FC, they ply their trade in other clubs playing in State Leagues like Bangalore Super Division, Goa Pro League, Kerala Premier League, Calcutta Premier League. There are exceptions of players who are under the central government and play sports only under the Sports Quota. Even some of the ISL Players are having Central or State Government Jobs, so now this won't make ISL a semi professional league right? https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/indian-footballer-vineeth-gets-ker-govt-job

To play in the I-League 2nd Division, you need to fulfil the criteria mentioned such as having Youth Development, having youth teams playing in the official AIFF organised Leagues, written contracts with players as per prescribed by the AIFF, All the Clubs playing in I-League 2nd Division also needs to be on the Central Registration System of the AIFF and register themselves in the Competition Management System. The Clubs wanting to play the I-League 2nd Division also need to have an office space and have full time Secretarial staff, Chief Operating Officer, Finance Officer, Media Officer, Medical Doctor, Physiotherapy etc. All these positions should be filled with only persons having the required Qualifications. If these positions are not filled with qualified persons, the club won't be granted a license. Now could you bring to my notice whether all such criteria have to be followed by a Semi Pro League Clubs? Also the difference between a Pro League and Semi Pro League is usually vast. The difference between the I-league and 2nd Division is only that I-League follows 3+1 Foreigners rule and 2nd Division I-League has 2+1.

@Nehme1499: How much a player earns during the contract is always an undisclosed and the Club and Player are bounded by a Non-Disclosure Clause, also the player gets monthly salary and do not have to depend on a 9-5 Job to survive. In a Semi Pro League, players are usally 9-5 job workers who take leave from their jobs to play a match and matches are usually on weekends but in case of the I-League 2nd Division, it's a full time league and it's clearly mentioned in the player contract that a player cannot get into any other job during the course of the contract, not even commentary for matches unless granted written permission from the Club.

Please can you point us to the exact part of that document that states that the players are not allowed to get another job? Also, I can't find anywhere that says about them being full-time. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 09:17, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

@Spiderone: that's mentioned on the contract papers between the club and the player. 2nd Division I-League players are on full time basis and cannot indulge in anything else during the term of the contract. Could you point out any I-League 2nd Division player who has being working 9-5 while playing? I'm sure you aren't gonna find any.

But it's a 3 month contract, right? So that's not a fully professional league... GiantSnowman 10:53, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

The AIFF under Article 2 of the regulations on the status and transfer of players gives a specific definition for who is a “professional” and who is an “amateur”. It defines a professional as - A professional is a player who has a written contract with a club and is paid more for his footballing activity than the expenses he effectively incurs. It defines an amateur as - An amateur is a player who has signed the consent/renewal form with a club as provided under Annexe-3 of these Regulations and is not being paid any remuneration for his footballing activity or any sum which is more than the expenses he effectively incurs for his footballing activity. The AIFF under its 2 nd Division club licensing rules mandates clubs to have a “written contract with PROFESSIONAL players”. It specifically reads - All license applicants' professional players must have a written contract with the license applicant in accordance with the relevant provisions of the FIFA regulations for the status and transfer of players and shall incorporate all key provisions required by

the national law and FIFA, AFC and instructions. So, to be clear, a “professional” according to the AIFF is one who has a written contract with the club, and it is in this context that the word “professional” has been used in the licensing regulations as well. Someone on here said that these players just have three-month contracts, someone said they have 9-5 jobs. Are random statements like these supposed to be “credible sources” on here at Wikipedia? Also, just to put some more FACTS on the table, the AIFF requires the minimum length of a PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS CONTRACT to be “from the signing of the contact to the end of the season”. THESE ARE AIFF RULES. THIS IS THE REQUIREMENT SET BY AIFF FOR ALL DIVISONS. Also, will someone please tell me where in the definition of a “fully professional league” is it a MANDATORY REQUIREMENT THAT A SEASON SHOULD BE OF MINIMUM 6 MONTHS OR SEVEN MONTHS OR AN ENTIRE YEAR? Simply going by the definition of a fully professional league as per wiki, WHERE DOES THE I-LEAGUE 2 nd DIVISION NOT SATISFY EACH REQUIREMENT? Also, why hasn’t a deletion request been put against Wikipedia’s I-League 2 nd Division page for calling itself professional? I am the one putting the actual evidence here, while everyone else is just making random statements. I would urge everyone to please up the level of discourse. I am attaching the link to AIFF’s regulations on the status of transfer of players 2020. Please go through it. https://www.the-aiff.com/media/uploads/2020/07/AIFF-Regulations-on-the-Status-and-Transfer-of-Players-2020.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs) 18:25, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

That document explicitly gives guidance for amateur players so clearly amateur players are permitted to play in the league. Therefore, how can we claim from that that every player must be professional? Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 18:38, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

The AIFF's definition of professional isn't necessarily the definition of professional someone else might give. We need secondary sources, not primary, that discuss about the status of the league. Also, "A professional is a player who has a written contract with a club and is paid more for his footballing activity than the expenses he effectively incurs". That's not enough: the point here isn't the expenses related to playing football, rather of the person being to live off of football alone. I highly doubt everyone in the Indian second division just plays football, and doesn't have any other (part-time or full-time) job to support his family. Nehme₁₄₉₉ 19:00, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

User:Spiderone okay so if your unaware about how Football Player registration work in India, let me explain to you, there are 2 types of contract which are valid with the AIFF, a Professional Contract and an Amateur Contract. The AIFF allows clubs upto the State Leagues to sign players on amateur contracts, but when it comes to the I-League 2nd Division, only players having a Professional Contract registered in the Central Registration System are allowed to be registered for 2nd Division in the Competition Management System. So in Short players with amateur contracts are ineligible to play the I-League 2nd Division. In short an amateur player cannot play the 2nd Division I-League. No offence, but seems like most people here calling themselves Indian and say they know 2nd division isn't professional league, they seem to be European Football Fans who have absolutely no Idea how the Indian Club Football system works and just make assumptions in their mind and try to potray them as facts which is ridiculous. I have already said if you are unaware about the league, you are free to contact the All India Football federation and verify whatever I have said. The I-League 2nd Division fulfils every criteria of being called a fully professional league. Also does it say anywhere that a 6 or 5 month league cannot be a Professional League? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs) 05:35, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Please can you provide evidence that amateur players aren't allowed to play in the 2nd division? That's neither stated nor implied in the source provided. Thanks. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:32, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

User:Nehme1499 What do you mean by a secondary source? Isn’t AIFF the all important source and there are already documents which show that the league fulfils every criteria. Sadly AFC or FIFA do not release any document which shows all the Professional Leagues in every country, or else that could have been my secondary source. Also I have said it time and again stop making assumptions without any proof, can you show me any player in the I-League 2nd Division who was playing for a club whereas also working part time elsewhere to earn money? Just don't say things without factual support. Every Player under contract during the I-League 2nd Division has to be with the Club and train with them, Food, Accommodation being provided by the club and the player has to only play football for the club during that period. I hope I make myself clear and understandable. I just see you'll asking me for proofs and when i provide documents everyone just makes blatant assumptions of their own without facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs) 05:35, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

And just to further put some more FACTS on the table, the professional football department of FIFA manages a variety of programmes aimed at promoting “professionalisation” of the game around the world. IMPLEMENTATION OF CLUB LICENSING REGULATIONS forms a core part of that. If anyone on here would have ever gone through FIFA’s club licensing handbook, they would’ve known that the entire purpose of club licensing is to PROFESSIONALISE CLUBS AND LEAGUES. It uses principle-based criteria and sets minimum standards which clubs must satisfy in order to be licensed. Granting of the license itself is a mark that a particular club is professional and adheres to a particular standard set by FIFA.

https://www.fifa.com/who-we-are/legal/professional-football-department/club-licensing/

User:Nehme1499 says that the definition of a “professional” as given by AIFF isn’t necessarily the definition that someone else might give. I would advise them to please look at FIFA’s Regulations of Transfer of Players (February 2021 Edition) that under its Article 2 (Clause (1)) gives the EXACT SAME definition of a professional player as is in the AIFF document. I will attach the document for reference. I would further urge everyone on this discussion to please make fact-based arguments rather than opinion-based arguments. Just to put the nail in the coffin, I am also attaching the FIFA Professional Football Report 2019. Please check page 24 of the report, which clearly categorises the 2 nd Division as a “Main League”. The report lays out that there are 33 professional clubs in India – 11 from the I-League, 10 from the Super League, and 12 from the 2 nd Division (As of 2019). I hope this document settles the debate.

https://resources.fifa.com/image/upload/fifa-professional-football-report-2019.pdf?cloudid=jlr5corccbsef4n4brde — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs) 10:10, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

A few points to raise here. Firstly, this document lists all 42 Scottish league clubs as being 'professional'. We know for a fact, however, that Alloa Athletic F.C. and Arbroath F.C. are semi-professional clubs (i.e. they have a significant number of part-time players). This is confirmed by multiple reliable sources as well as the clubs themselves. A few other interesting inclusions are the third tier Russian league, second tier Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland right down to even the third tier! Interestingly, Eerste Divisie appears to be excluded according to this document so that does certainly call into question the status of that league. Back to the topic at hand, the document explicitly states that there is no enforced minimum salary on Indian clubs. So, again, how do we know, from the sources provided, that footballers in the Indian 2nd Division are full-time players making a living from football? Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 12:55, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Footballbrain01, please make sure that you are signing your comments. Regards Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 06:26, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Yes, the document says that there is no minimum salary requirement for Indian clubs, but that is not just specifically the case for the 2 nd Division. That applies to the I-League and the ISL as well. So, are you telling me that there is no professional football in India? What is the logic behind this argument? Are you telling me that a document released by FIFA, the chief governing body of world football, which is titled as the “PROFESSIONAL FOOTBALL REPORT”, which clearly states that there are 33 professional football clubs in India, 11 in the I-League, 10 in the ISL, and 12 in the 2 nd Division, is not credible source, but simply making unfounded claims like players have 9-5 jobs etc passes your test of credible sourcing? Is this the standard on here to bring an article down? And what is this illogical comparison being drawn with the Scottish league? Am I supposed to take FIFA’s word on whether a club is professional or not or am I or the readers at Wikipedia supposed to take your word? If you believe FIFA has put out something incorrect in their report in your humble opinion, why don’t you get in touch with them and ask them to rectify? Any which way, how is it even relevant in the Indian context whether there are 42 professional clubs in Scotland or 40? Till then, pardon me if an official document released by FIFA seems more credible than unfounded claims. And my friend, for the umpteenth time, 2 nd Division players are EXPLICITLY BARRED from any other employment during the course of their contract. You know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS WITHIN THE DEFINITION OF A PROFESSIONAL PLAYER AS GIVEN BY AIFF, AFC, AND FIFA. This raises one very serious question, are articles on here deleted based on Wikipedia guidelines, or simply on the whims and fancies of some editors who are clearly not fully aware about the topic that is being discussed? Because no one on here is telling me what part of the definition of a “fully professional league” according to Wiki does the I-League 2 nd division not satisfy. Instead, random, uninformed and totally illogical arguments are being made. Rules, regulation, and guidelines that are passed by the AIFF under its constitution, which is a subordinate body of the AFC, which further is a subordinate body of FIFA, are being called “insufficient”, but “random statements” and “general feelings” and “high doubts” are considered to be sufficient enough to bring down someone else’s Wikipedia page? And since no one answered, I’ll ask again – Why isn’t the I-League 2 nd Division Wikipedia page being deleted for calling itself a professional league when a few editors on here so strongly feel it isn’t? Please, as responsible editors on here, I request you all to once again look at this holistically and logically. General sentiments, uninformed opinions and random untrue statements without any basis should not be the standard by which articles on here are deleted. Such low standards not just cause harm to the person whose page is being taken down, but it also infringes on the service that Wikipedia strives to provide to its readers. Regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs) 15:32, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Please can you provide a source for your statement And my friend, for the umpteenth time, 2 nd Division players are EXPLICITLY BARRED from any other employment during the course of their contract.? Thanks Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 15:41, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

User:Spiderone, Have you ever seen a Player-Club contract published anywhere? its confidential and bounded by a Non-Disclosure Agreement. I think you should have that basic knowledge, also have you ever seen Barcelona or Chelsea put out a notice in public that our players cannot do any other work while on contract. but this same thing is mentioned on their contract paper. Since you are again and again saying that players are not playing full time, I have already asked you to show me proof of which players aren't playing full time while on contract. How do u expect to prove that players are playing full time for the club when they are doing it? but u can always prove that they aren't if u believe so with some facts. Otherwise it makes no sense and waste of money repeating and arguing on the same thing again. Also now don't tell me that wiki editors are bigger and have better knowledge than FIFA on which Leagues are professional and which not. Thank you. Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs) — Preceding undated comment added 16:07, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

I haven't said that the players aren't full-time, I'm merely asking you to provide sources to support your statement that they are all full-time players. If you can't provide evidence then what makes you so sure that it's true and what makes your opinion more correct than anyone else's in this thread? Also, before we add this league, we need proof of [their] salary should be a living wage in the nation where the league is based, and preferably around or above the average or median national wage. The professionalism of the league should also extend to sufficient contact hours, and facilities, equipment, expenses and other support as necessary to allow full-time pursuit of the sport. Spiderone^{(Talk to Spider)} 16:34, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

user:Spiderone, instead of asking me to prove that these are full time players, can you prove to me otherwise that they are not? No. You have not provided one source that says that the I-League 2 nd Division comprises of part time players. Whereas on the other hand I have provided a document by FIFA that clearly says it’s professional league. It seems as though the only evidence that will satisfy your extremely -high standards is for me to publicly post a players’ contract on here which would be illegal. So I’m sorry about my reluctance to do that. Instead, I will try to break this down and make it as simple for you as I can. A professional according to FIFA, AFC, and AIFF is one who - is a player who has a written contract with a club and IS PAID MORE FOR HIS FOOTBALLING ACTIVITY THAN THE EXPENSES HE INCURRED. A 2 nd Division club in order to have a license to compete are MANDATED to have written contracts with ONLY PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS. Do you think FIFA, AFC, and AIFF are all idiots for using the words “professional players”? Have you ever heard of something called as a “part-time” professional footballer? Either you can be a part-time footballer, or you can be a professional footballer, how can you be both at the same time? Are you even making sense to yourself? Previously as well you asked a question - “That document explicitly gives guidance for amateur players so clearly amateur players are permitted to play in the league. Therefore, how can we claim from that that every player must be professional?” You said this in reference to the I-League 2 nd Division Licensing Guidelines. Firstly, how did you even glean that from what you read in that document? Secondly, In simple words, again, an amateur according to FIFA and AFC and AIFF is one who has signed the consent/renewal form with a club as provided under Annexe-3 of these Regulations and is NOT BEING PAID ANY REMUNERATION for his footballing activity or any sum which is more than the expenses he effectively incurs for his footballing activity. AMATUERS CANNOT COMPETE IN THE I LEAGUE 2 ND DIVISION BECAUSE IT IS MANDATORY FOR CLUBS TO HAVE WRITTEN CONTRACTS WITH PROFESSIONAL PLAYERS. AND WHO IS A PROFESSIONAL PLAYER? – ONE WHO HAS A WRITTEN CONTRACT AND IS PAID MORE FOR HIS FOOTBALLING ACTIVITY THAN THE EXPENSES HE INCURRED. WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND IN THIS? EVERY SINGLE I – LEAGUE 2 ND DIVISION PLAYER IS A PROFESSIONAL GOING BY THE DEFINITION AS LAID DOWN BY FIFA, BUT IT SOMEHOW FAILS TO SATISFY YOUR UNREALISTIC STANDARDS OF EVIDENCE, THAT TOO WITHOUT YOU PROVIDING A SINGLE SOURCE TO BACK UP ANYTHING YOU’VE SAID ON HERE SO FAR. There is a publicly available document by FIFA that clearly states there are 33 PROFESSIONAL CLUBS in India, 12 of those from the 2 nd Division, BUT THAT FOR YOU IS NOT EVIDENCE ENOUGH. The report is titled “Professional Football Report” for crying out loud, and you’re still doubting the professionality of the league? Again, please go through the I-League 2nd Division Licensing Guidelines, and visit the FIFA website and check the purpose of such licensing as well. You will get your answer as to whether the 2 nd Division fulfils the requirements of a FPL according to Wiki Project/Fully Professional League guidelines. The same has also been discussed above, in excruciating detail in my posts. Also, please answer the specific questions I’ve asked on my previous posts – That why is a deletion request not being put against the I-League 2 nd Division Wikipedia page for calling itself “professional”, when you so clearly and so passionately believe it is not? Why is it that a document by FIFA, the world governing body of professional football, that EXPLICITELY STATES the 2 nd Division to be a “main league”, that there are 33 professional clubs in India, 12 of which are from the 2 nd Division, is not being considered credible, but claims being made out of thin air are considered sufficient to bring an article down? I frankly construe this as bullying, that certain editors on here fail to apply logic, have zero knowledge – not even basic knowledge on working of the industry, make sweeping untrue statements out of thin air, have not sourced ONE, not even ONE of their unfounded claims ON THIS ENTIRE THREAD, and are willy-nilly bringing articles down just because they feel so? A document by FIFA, on a discussion on football, is being said to be “not sufficient”. Instead of improving articles on here for readers, it seems you are more focused on deleting articles, that too unreasonably. What is trying to be achieved here? This is unbelievable. Appalling, honestly.

Also with your question about what makes my opinion more correct than anyone else in this thread is that I have been in this field of Indian Football for the past 3 years professionally and I have had access to Player Club Contracts ranging from the ISL, I-League, 2nd Division to the State Leagues to carry on my duties. This is the reason why I'm finding it frustrating and funny and people are making baseless and fact-less statements without having any actual experience and knowledge about the field and also upto the extend of overruling FIFA, whose statements and documents should be considered as the Final nail in the coffin. Footballbrain01 (talk • contribs)

@Footballbrain01: there is clear consensus here NOT to include the league. As such, please WP:DROPTHESTICK. GiantSnowman 10:42, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I want to put this to bed here. There are freaking Indian Super League reserve teams here and none of them are fully-professional since they are mainly youth players. That alone is enough, along with the league not passing WP:GNG. --ArsenalFan700 (talk) 14:13, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

A few quotes from sportskeeda: "Pride Sports FC is a semi-professional football club", "salaries that have not been paid to staff and players of the club", "the players who had signed on a contract by match basis received payment for only the first two matches, while those on a monthly contractual agreement received only one month salary after several months of delay", "the lack of empathy and professionalism shown by the club's management shows the great deal of change that is required to make football a viable profession in India". Nehme₁₄₉₉ 21:58, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

Footballbrain01, I hope you know that I league 2nd division currently consists of reserves team of ISL clubs. Last week I went to see a match in Kerala Premier League and had a chat with one of the head coaches of a team. Last season, his team played in the I league 2nd division, so you can guess which is the team Im referring to. The coach said me that the complete wages of the players and other supporting staffs are being paid by himself during tne season. The club will only pay him back the money he spent including his salary after the season ends, when he shows a chart sheet consisting of full expenses. This is not actually a professional club actually would do when dealing with the club'a expenses. Some of your poinst are right, but still I believ I league 2nd division is not fully professional. I hope it will become so in 2025 as per the current roadmap of AIFF. And please dont be rude to other editors here. Most of them have plenty of experience and we make decisions here based on consensus. Regards Kichu🐘 ^Discuss 08:43, 11 March 2021 (UTC) Footballbrain01 is correct that the I-League 2nd Division will be treated as fully professional for the purposes of WP:GNG. If I state this with enough pomposity and entitlement I can simply ignore all the evidence against, while not providing any of my own. Please don't laugh, this is GiantSnowman's position on various English, Scottish, Dutch and Nordic leagues (see above). Bring back Daz Sampson (talk) 10:43, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

While initially funny, your POINTYness is becoming a bit boring now... Nehme₁₄₉₉ 16:04, 11 March 2021 (UTC)

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