Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Peer review/Mongol invasion of Khwarezmia

Mongol invasion of Central Asia

I'm looking for a review on this page. Comb over any grammatical or spelling mistakes. Fact check, etc. Thanks. Laserbeamcrossfire 06:19, 4 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kirill Lokshin

Looks quite nice. I'm not really qualified to do an exhaustive fact-check (you might want to ask oldwindybear, as he knows a great deal about the Mongols), but some general suggestions:

The lead section is very short ;-) Creating a two- or three-paragraph summary of the material would be quite helpful here.
Footnotes should really include page numbers; and simply having more of them would also be a good thing.
Any chance of getting articles on some of the individual battles/sieges here? Or is there not enough material available to make that worthwhile?

In general, though, it's a very interesting and quite well-written article. Kirill Lok s h in 00:19, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

oldwindybear

Kirill Lokshin Kirill, I have reworked the article, doing the following:

1) adding 3 introductory paragraphs;
2) correcting the historical context or adding detail - for instance, the Shah's differences with the Calpih were twofold: first, he demanded to be named Sultan without giving the obligatory (if illusory) oath that the Caliph was the "Commander of the Faithful" which of course would include the Shah, he refused to provide the obligatory bribes or presents, and the Caliph feared he would ultimately conquer what was left of the Caliphate;
3) adding detail on the Mongols, army, intelligence, structure and command, and their fearful use of the tactics of indirect attack and wholesale terror on a scale not seen again until the German use of the same tactics in WWII;
4) heavy sourcing of the article;
5) explaining why Jochi was so enraged and estranged from his father after this war - which ironically, though it conquered the strongest of the Islamic states, literally gave birth forty years later to the Islamic Golden Horde, who would save the remainder of Islam from Hulegu Khan by siding - and literally fighting their cousins for - the Mamluks, (and in addition to the religious reasons, their personal animosity towards their cousins came from Jochi's estrangement, which was certainly passed to his heirs!);

And thus this war laid the seeds that brought down the Mongol Empire. Please look at the rewrite - I am continuing to tinker and source, the basic article was a good one, it just needed an intro, more detail, sourcing and linking, and better explanations for some of the events which would reverberate in world history in later decades. Please everyone let me know what you think. The Mongols are sort of my specialty, lol. old windy bear 00:31, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Looks excellent so far! The added sources are especially valuable; some of them still need more publication information, though (at least the year of publication, anyways). Please do add any further material you think would be valuable here; given that this period of history isn't particularly well-represented on the Internet—and even in other encyclopedias—this article is probably going to become the default reference work on the topic :-) Kirill Lok s h in 02:14, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kirill Lok s h in Thank you very much - I worked hard on this, and am delighted you are pleased. I will add the publication dates this weekend, I shortchanged on that, (ouch!) but thanks, and I like the way the article looks now. This invasion was of particular macrohistorial importance for three reasons:

it began the destruction of the Islamic states, which would come to a horrific head at the sack of Bagdad under Hulegu Khan in 1258, and introduced the world to what Sir Edward Creasy (the greatest military historian of the west) would call Tactics of Terror and Indirect Attack;
it set the stage for expansion into Europe, and especially Kiev Rus;
ironically, the first two set the stage for the destruction of the Mongol Empire - it was Jochi, embittered at his father and brothers in this war, whose descendants would create the Golden Horde, and because he had less Mongols and more Turcomens in his forces, (plus their own bitterness over Jochi's estrangement, which was definately passed down) those forces would become Muslim, and end up defending Islam after 1260, when they invaded the realm of Hulegu Khan, to deter his intended vengence on the Mamluks for their defeat of one of his armies at Ain Jalut.

Thank you for letting me help with this - and just direct me elsewhere once I update the references, if I can be of immediate help anywhere, otherwise, i am going to continue helping with the updates on the Carolingian - Frankish Realm articles, and begin my long awaited work on the Romans.old windy bear 12:43, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I can't think of anything right now that requires particularly urgent attention; if you're done reworking this article, feel free to continue whereever you think would be most appropriate. Thanks! Kirill Lok s h in 12:49, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Kirill Lok s h in Smec set up the early campaigns of Charles Martel, and I had been over there working with him on expanding those stubs into full articles, since they really are the key to understanding the greatest general of the Dark Ages. I am also helping Amir with the Sassanid Empire article - he needed some information on their warrior caste, (which were the world's first "Knights"), and the economy, especially relating to their struggle with Bzyantium for control of the silk road. Once those things were done, I was finally going to post my articles on the campaigns of Hannibal and Scipio Africanus. BUT, if anything comes up you feel I can help with, please let me know, it is an honor to be asked. old windy bear 13:36, 13 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]