Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/James Cannan

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

James Harold Cannan

Promoted --Eurocopter (talk) 10:05, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nominator(s): Hawkeye7 (talk)

I am nominating this article for A-Class review because... here we have a man who served as a general in both World Wars, becoming one of the least highly decorated generals of the Second World War, and Australia's last surviving general of the Great War. Hawkeye7 (talk) 07:17, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support: there are no dabs, ext links check out and alt text is present. The article is well written and cited. One minor issue: there appears to be different names used within the article for the conflicts that Cannan took part in (for instance World War I, First World War and Great War are all used, while World War II and Second World War are also used). I think it would be best to pick one name for each war and just use that for consistency, whichever name is used. — AustralianRupert (talk) 10:47, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I've adjusted the references to First/Second World War. The problem is that the big one was and is always called the Great War in Australia and never the World War. It was called that in the US and Germany. So phase one, a reviewer comes through and asks for them to be made consistent, which means renaming as I've done. Next thing, another reviewer will come through and say I'm using Americanisms, switch all the spelling to American... Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:22, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support with some minor comments:
- I assume that age was the factor in Cannan taking a rear-echelon QM role rather than an operational command in WWII - is this spelt out anywhere, or where there any other reasons?
  - He was a few months younger than Iven Mackay, so age was not the only factor, at least early on, but there was also the matter of his being on the unattached list since 1925.
- I assume no mentions of him in the WWII Official History?
  - A couple of mentions that he was QMG, and Long mentions his lack of honours. I've included the one incident, about Reverse Lend Lease, which is covered by both Long and Butler and Schedvin. That's because, as Long put it "...is basically a history of military operations in the field. The administrative and technical achievements of the Australian Army in six years of war are touched on only when they directly affected the fighting man or were a subject of discussion between soldiers and statesmen." Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:58, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Mentioned in Despatches should be linked the first time and capitalised consistently with how it appears in the infobox. Cheers, Ian Rose (talk) 14:57, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Done. Hawkeye7 (talk) 22:58, 28 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support Comments – en excellent article as usual, though a few issues before I can support:

It might be an idea to add a snippet of Cannan's life during the inter-war years to the lead, even just stating that he continued his military service in the Militia.
For Australian Dictionary of Biography references, you can use the specific template of Template:Australian Dictionary of Biography as opposed to cite web.
- Thanks. I never knew about it. I'll use it from now on. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In regards to the 8th Infantry (Oxley Battalion), is it specifically as stated or is it meant to be 8th Infantry (Oxley) Battalion?
- (Has a look) No, it's right. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Heh, that seems a little unusual. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 11:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Did it take the 15th Battalion four months to travel from Australia to arrive at Gallipoli, or were the posted to Eqypt first? If so, this should be clarified.
- Added some text about the training in Egypt. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Due to File:Godley at Quinn's Post.jpg being aligned to the right with the infobox, it creates quite a bit of white space between the second and thrid paragraphs. Even though it is a Gallipoli-based photograph, it might be best if it was moved down into the "Western Front" section.
- Really? On my screen it sits neatly under the infobox. I moved it but the appearance is unchanged. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yeah, it was stuck under the infobox. Looks all good now, though. :) Abraham, B.S. (talk) 11:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If might be worth a mention further up, if who have the information of course, that Cannon's older brother was a major in his battalion.
- He was a captain. He only made major shortly before Sari Bair. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Is there any further information on Cannon's command of his battalion during the Battles of Pozières and Mouquet Farm?
- Done. I've read Bean Volume III from cover to cover three times... Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Could you please clarify why he was awarded the Croix de guerre? The AWM recommendation is here, if that helps. ;-) Just putting something like "for his sevices "in regaining Belgian territory form the enemy", Cannan was awarded the Belgian Croix de guerre".
- Done.
"Cannan commanded the 2/15th Infantry" - I presume that is meant to be a battalion?
- Sort of. A duplicated infantry regiment. Like Denise Richards says it's complicated. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Fair enough. Abraham, B.S. (talk) 11:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"On 1 July 1920 he became a substantive colonel and honorary brigadier general on 1 July 1920 when he took over command of the 2nd Infantry Brigade from 1 July 1920 to 30 April 1921." - some date repetition issues there ...
- Only three time! Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Lol! Abraham, B.S. (talk) 11:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
It might be an idea to clarify Mackay's rank in the first paragraph of the "Second World War" section.
- Done.
Cannan's joining of the 2nd AIF should probably be moved up to the second paragraph of the "Second World War" section.
- Done.
"Blamey nominated him for a Knight of the Order of the British Empire" - is that meant to be a Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire he was recommended for?
- Done.
A few of the page ranges used in citations require an endash.
- The problem here is that there's a bot that goes round replacing the – with the Unicode character. Then I can't tell which is which. Hawkeye7 (talk) 11:11, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Heh, I haven't spotted that bot around yet. It is annoying, though, when you cannot tell which is which and make an edit in vain ... Abraham, B.S. (talk) 11:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 06:21, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

All of the changes you have made look excellent, so I'm happy to support. Cheers, Abraham, B.S. (talk) 11:36, 30 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

Education and early life, "...firm of hardware merchants" reads rather oddly, and I'm not totally sure what it means. Something like a hardware store?
- Years of experience have taught me not to dick with the wording in the hair-splitting ADB unless you have the primary source at hand. Hawkeye7 (talk) 03:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Same section, "was the State manager". Why is "state" capitalized?
- Typo. corrected. Hawkeye7 (talk) 03:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Gallipoli section, "Cannan was evacuated sick". It seems that something is missing here, or maybe "evacuated sick" is military jargon?
- Yes, it is military jargon for "became sick and was evacuated" except that this wording could be taken to mean he was given an enema, which would have done little for his hernia. Re-worded. Hawkeye7 (talk) 03:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Same section, "sent to 3 London General Hospital". Is this an address?
- No, it is a unit. Changed to "the 3rd London General Hospital". Hawkeye7 (talk) 03:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Between the wars (and in the lead). What is the unattached list? Please wikilink or explain briefly.
- I have no sources to create such an article, and cannot add an explanation without them. I can only remove the reference to the unattached list outright. Hawkeye7 (talk) 03:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Second World War, "for every shipping ton procured in Australia saved two in the Atlantic". I'm not really sure what is trying to be said here...
- Re-worded. Let me know if it makes more sense now. Hawkeye7 (talk) 03:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In the Notes, the author's name is spelled "Butler", in the References, it is "Butlin".
- Typo. Corrected. Hawkeye7 (talk) 03:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
References 2, 3, and 16 need publishers added.
- Added. Hawkeye7 (talk) 03:38, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is a nice article, and I look forward to supporting when the above issues have been addressed. Dana boomer (talk) 00:23, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support YellowMonkey (bananabucket) (Invincibles finally at Featured topic candidates) 00:44, 5 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.