Wikipedia:WikiProject Television/24 task force/Merger Discussions/Past Discussions

Previous Merger discussions are listed here, after 7 days of the merger closing.

Lisa Miller

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed merging or splitting of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result was to Merge the article.

Okay, the first merger discussion. This article has many issues. Firstly, it has no references at all, either primary or third party sources, the latter are required to establish notability per WP:FICT. Additionally, the article contains no discussion of the cast and creation, and is basically just a plot summary, and while the fact remains that WP:PLOT is not a policy, or a disputed one, this article has had many many months to be rewritten, to try to assert notability. And as a 24 viewer myself, this character had little or no impact on the season. Looking at a character based on the amount of seasons or episodes they've been in is a relatively poor way of checking an article for suitability of merging, this is merely a case of no in-universe notability, therefore no real-world notability. Merge. Steve Crossin (talk) (review) 15:21, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge. Not important in the grand scheme of 24. People like her are essentially what a 'minor characters' page is for. Tool2Die4 (talk) 11:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge. She is very similar to the Patty Brooks character from the first season - very minor and unimportant to the overall plot. I see that Lisa Miller is already listed on the Minor characters in 24 too. SeanMooney (talk) 11:59, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Removed from Minor characters, was poorly written, full explanation is in the edit summary. Steve Crossin (talk) (review) 12:04, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge The character was not played by a well known actress or a special guest star. The character had very little air time. The minor characters page was specifically designed to contain this kind of character. The character is forgetable and will never be mentioned again in the 24 series. I doubt external verifiable independent sources could be established for this character.--Lucy-marie (talk) 12:25, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, I even asked Lan Di specifically not to look for references, per my explanation. Seems consensus is foreseeable to merge. Let's discuss content. I don't want to do a copy-paste merge. Lucy, could you discuss this with me? And, I'll do the merge myself. I said I would, so I will, but let's decide on the content first, OK? Steve Crossin (talk) (review) 12:31, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Content Discussion

Okay, to perform a smooth merge, we need to determine what content should be cut, and what should stay. It should probably be rather precise and to the point. What do we all think? I think it should start of somewhat like,

Lisa Miller, portrayed by Kari Matchett, is the aide to Vice President Noah Daniels.

A start, needs expanding though. Suggestions? Steve Crossin (talk) (review) 12:43, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There was nothing wrong with the original one and I would support re-inclusion of this: Lisa Miller, played by Kari Matchett, serves as an aide to Noah Daniels and unsuccessfully attempts to help him secure the Presidency. She has been romantically involved both with Daniels and, without Daniels' knowledge, lobbyist Mark Bishop. After Daniels learns about her relationship, Miller is coerced into a ploy to feed Bishop -- and the Russians -- false information. The ploy goes awry and Miller is nearly strangled by her lover, Bishop. --Lquilter (talk) 13:36, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't it a bit long, considering the other characters, such as Henderson, have such brief details about it? I'm not overly phased, to be honest. Steve Crossin (talk) (review) 13:39, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also, the prose and words could use some working on, I think. Merely as it's a merged article doesn't mean it shouldn't be of the highest possible quality. And, how about adding a ref or two, ie, using {{cite episode}}? From now on, these merges should be of the highest possible quality, we don't want a page like how it used to be. Steve Crossin (talk) (review) 14:15, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What about: Lisa Miller, played by Kari Matchett, is an aide to and lovers with Noah Daniels and unsuccessfully attempts to help him secure the Presidency. She is later attacked by her lover, lobbyist and Russian spy Mark Bishop, while trying to feed the Russians false information. Feel free to shorten or edit. Episode refs are a good idea. --Lquilter (talk) 15:48, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm happy with that. Consensus is clear here to Merge the discussion, I'll proceed with the merger. I've set up a special anchor, so don't mind if I proceed with the merge myself. Any objections from you Lquilter? Steve Crossin (talk) (review) 15:54, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, per all discussion, I've Merged this page, with Minor characters in 24. Any concerns can be raised on my talk page, not on the other editors who supported merging. Steve Crossin (talk) (review) 16:13, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep it merged but just briefly mention that she had an affair with the VP. мirаgeinred سَراب ٭ (talk) 21:06, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new discussion section.

Walid Al-Rezani

Article-Walid Al-Rezani. Result-Merge.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed merging or splitting of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result was to Merge the article.

The article seems a clear candidate for merging to me. In-universe, Walid was a relatively minor character who had limited air time, a minor impact on the plot, and they have no coverage in third party sources. I feel this is more a discussion of what content should be merged, as in, how the section written on them will flow. Steve Crossin (contact) 06:19, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge - appeared in six episodes and ultimately was not important to the plot (the inmates he was gathering intelligence on ended up innocent). There's no background to his character or any press coverage. SeanMooney (talk) 08:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge - The character in a few episodes of season 6, so there will be nothing to add to this article and it will remain pure plot summary.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Judgesurreal777 (talk • contribs)

Merge Unmemorable minor character, with no notability in the long run.--Lucy-marie (talk) 15:19, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge - Per Judgesurreal777, you can't really expand the article much. --The Helpful One ^(Review) 17:15, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Content discussion

Seems we are in agreement on merging the article, but we really should discuss the content that will be put into the Minor characters in 24 page. Obviously we don't want too much, but we don't want to cut out so much that none of the important information remains. Thoughts? Steve Crossin (contact) 03:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The larger minor character entries are three sentences long, and I think both this one and Reed Pollock should be distilled to three sentences and merged. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 18:28, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not sure if this is good enough, but I'll try:

Walid Al-Rezani, played by Harry Lennix, is the regional director of the Islamic-American Alliance. After being detained by the FBI, Walid agreed to gather intel on Detention Facility inmate suspects. Although the inmates were innocent, after learning they were being spied on, Walid was assaulted and hospitalized.

SeanMooney (talk) 13:21, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, how about:

Walid Al-Rezani, played by Harry Lennix, is the regional director of the Islamic-American Alliance, who was detained by the FBI. When agreeing to spy on the other inmates, they were proven innocent, however when they discovered he was a spy, he was assaulted and needed to be hopsitalised.

Steve Crossin (talk) (contact page) 13:27, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good to me. SeanMooney (talk) 13:37, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Alright, done. Steve Crossin (talk) (contact page) 13:44, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new discussion section.

Reed Pollock

Article-Reed Pollock. Result-Merge.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed merging or splitting of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result was to Merge the article.

The article seems a clear candidate for merging to me. In-universe, the character was rather minor, they had limited air time, and they have no coverage in third party sources. I feel this is more a discussion of what content should be merged, as in, how the section in the Minor characters page will flow. Steve Crossin (contact) 06:19, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge - was in just a handful of episodes all related to the same subplot, no third party sources, etc. Page is nothing more than a plot summary and it's unlikely to be expanded further. SeanMooney (talk) 08:20, 6 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge - Was in a few episodes of season 6, so there will be nothing to add to this article and it will remain pure plot summary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Judgesurreal777 (talk • contribs)

Merge The article is short and not much more except plot summary could be added.--Lucy-marie (talk) 15:19, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Merge - Per all above, can't do much expansion, no references. The Helpful One ^(Review) 17:12, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Content discussion

Seems we are in agreement on merging the article, but we really should discuss the content that will be put into the Minor characters in 24 page. Obviously we don't want too much, but we don't want to cut out so much that none of the important information remains. Thoughts? Steve Crossin (contact) 03:24, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The larger minor character entries are three sentences long, and I think both this one and Walid Al Rezani should be distilled to three sentences and merged. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 18:28, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a quick first draft, I believe this has most of the essential information. It can probably be trimmed a bit further:

Reed Pollock, played by Chad Lowe, is Deputy White House Chief of Staff. He was involved in a conspiracy to forcibly remove President Wayne Palmer from office. Pollock attempted to assassinate the president by planting an explosive device (disguised as a micro-cassette recorder) under the podium. His attack was unsuccessful and he was taken into custody shortly after.

SeanMooney (talk) 13:52, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm, how about,

Reed Pollock, played by Chad Lowe, is the Deputy White House Chief of Staff. He was involved in an assassination plot to remove President Wayne Palmer from office, however the assassination failed. Palmer was still injured, and Pollock was taken into custody shortly afterwards.

Steve Crossin (talk) (contact page) 14:11, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

After thinking about it a bit more, the assassination failed but he did critically injure Palmer and was successful in his goal of getting Noah Daniels into office. Not sure if this should be mentioned or not. SeanMooney (talk) 14:20, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, I think your revised one is good enough for now - it could always be changed later on if need be. SeanMooney (talk) 14:40, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I'll do the merge. Steve Crossin (talk) (contact page) 22:49, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new discussion section.