User talk:Trappist the monk/Archive 1

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Replaceable fair use Image:Soundstream Honeywell 5600E BW.jpg

Replaceable fair use

Thanks for uploading Image:Soundstream Honeywell 5600E BW.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

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Replaceable fair use Image:Soundstream DTR Front BW.jpg

Replaceable fair use

Thanks for uploading Image:Soundstream DTR Front BW.jpg. I noticed the description page specifies that the media is being used under a claim of fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first non-free content criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed media could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this media is not replaceable, please:

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Request

TrappistTheMonk: please email me (via talk-->email) for an offline discussion, thanks! Ssier (talk) 20:22, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Welcome

Hello, Trappist the monk! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. You may benefit from following some of the links below, which will help you get the most out of Wikipedia. If you have any questions you can ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or by typing four tildes "~~~~"; this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you are already loving Wikipedia you might want to consider being "adopted" by a more experienced editor or joining a WikiProject to collaborate with others in creating and improving articles of your interest. Click here for a directory of all the WikiProjects. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Happy editing! Saebjorn! 04:08, 4 October 2009 (UTC) Getting Started Wikipedia Tutorial • The five pillars of Wikipedia How to: edit a page • upload an image Getting Help Frequently Asked Questions Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and Guidelines Neutral point of view • Reliable sources Verifiability • Citing sources • No original research What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The Community Community Portal • Adopt-a-user program Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • Resolving disputes Build consensus • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Things to do Be bold in editing • Help develop an article Pages needing attention • Peer review Join a WikiProject • Translating articles Cleaning up: General • Spam • Vandalism Miscellaneous Categories • Disambiguity • Stubs User pages • Talk pages Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

Invisible text in Carding

Hello. Is there something you'd like to do with this? It's been there for a year or so, so I thought you might have forgotten about it. Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:20, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Taxonomy

Can you be careful with altering authority citations in articles on plants and animals. Parentheses are used in these to indicate that a species (or subspecies) name was originally given in a different genus. For plants, authors are often cited with abbreviations of their names ending in periods (Linneaus for example is L.). So I've reverted your changes to Bananaquit and Aceratorchis. Thanks, —innotata 04:02, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

By the way, external links are supposed to be dynamic, so they shouldn't have access dates or any other citation formatting (WP:External links); dates should be given in standard formats like "9 November 2009" or "2009-11-09" (MOS:DATE). —innotata 04:07, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

---

American film version + Family Tree (part of)

Regarding your posting earlier this afternoon, please see my comment on the same Talk page. I agree with you entirely... do it! Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:09, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

As you haven't done it, I have just done it.

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:54, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

---

                               Birger (Henrik's grandfather)

    Johan (Henrik's Uncle)               Fredrik = Ulrika (Henrik's parents)
    b.1884                               b.1886

 Sofia  Marit  Ingrid             Richard   Harald   Gregor   Gustav   Henrik Vanger
                                   b.1907      b.1911   b.1912   b.1918      b.1920

                          Gottfried = Isabella Keonig
                               b.1927       b.1928

                            Martin       Harriet                                 
                                b.1948             b.1950

---

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 16:30, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Further to my un-doing of your edit earlier today...please see above. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 16:12, 30 November 2011 (UTC). Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 16:24, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi Trappist,

I followed your idea and removed the ever-increasing section on the 2011 American re=make on November 29... see above... and included it in the "See also".

Just wanted to ask you for your input on whether or not you consider the American film a re-make, and to refer you to the article entitled: List of English-language films based on foreign-language films and the relevant talk page, also the talk page of the 2011 film.

All the best.

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:46, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for responding so quickly. I appreciate it, even though I am surprised that you do not support my view that the American version should be included in the above, all too brief article. Especially as it opens with a plea for more content. I believe the film qualifies, but no doubt I am not alone so I'll wait patiently.

Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 11:21, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

All has been satisfactorily resolved. Your assistance is much appreciated. Gareth Griffith-Jones (talk) 18:27, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Agnus Dei (Barber)

Perhaps we need to clarify what we talk about rather than short edit summaries. A title should appear just italic, I agree, but a term which is a redirect should appear bold, for the person who comes by the redirect to see a reference. Look at Liebfrauenkirche, Halle, for example, with several redirects bolded. Agnus Dei (Barber) is a redirect, therefore Agnus Dei should appear bold on top of italic for being a title, --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:57, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

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America's Cup flags/Ensigns

Moved to Talk:America's Cup

I noticed you changed the Irish flag icon templates on the America's Cup article. I agree they were previously incorrect, but using the flag of Ireland for Ulster (Northern Ireland) is a contentious issue. Since 1801, the UK has used the Union Jack as its national flag—see Flag of the United Kingdom. It would also probably make sense to use the Union Jack in place of the Scotland and England flags as well. On the individual Yacht pages, {{flag|United Kingdom|civil}} might be more appropriate. See the File:Deck of the cutter Galatea-1.jpg—it appears that Galatea is flying that ensign. Thoughts? Mojoworker (talk) 07:51, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for April 26

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Citation style

Please refrain from making undiscussed changes of citation style, which is against WP:CITEVAR. Thank you. Johnbod (talk) 20:29, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

Anchor

Moved to Talk:Major-General's Song

Just wondering: What does the "anchor" that you added to the Benford book ref do? – Ssilvers (talk) 18:29, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Short Pages

Please do not revert the placement of the Long Comment on short pages. The purpose of the comment is to move pages down off of the Short Pages reports. The reports show pages that may need attention to reach at least a minimum standard of quality as a valid stub or disambiguation. But if pages that meet that standard are left at that short length, they flood out the report, making it useless. So the standard solution for many years has been to add this long comment to those pages that do not need the attention of Short Pages patrollers. This bumps them way, way down the list, and leave the head of the report clean. At the moment all pages of length 126 characters or less have been cleared this way. Thus, if anything appears at the head of the report that is 126 character or less, I know that it is either a brand new page, or a page made newly short. And thus those pages are able to get the attention that they need.

I have been slowly pushing back the level of this clear space. The further I push, the more pages I can see and rapidly work on that need attention. I'm currently starting to push down pages of length 127–128. And that's where the page that you reverted me falls.

So it's not that it's being a disambiguation means that it should not be short, but that it's being a disambiguation that is well formatted and needs no immediate attention means that it can be pushed way down the Short Pages reports.

I hope that this makes sense, and that you will not obstruct this effort. – TexasAndroid (talk) 20:49, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Camp Perkins

Hey, thanks for the fix. I was on the page earlier, and came back and was a bit puzzled as to why everything looked so good. Thanks for fixing them up! Kevin Rutherford (talk) 01:54, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Ragdoll

I reverted your edit – see WP:LINKROT – Do not delete factual information solely because the URL to the source does not work any longer. WP:Verifiability does not require that all information be supported by a working link, nor does it require the source to be published online.  Ronhjones  ^(Talk) 21:23, 9 June 2012 (UTC)

Airports are odd

I noticed your edit to Faro/Johnson Lake Water Aerodrome. I've tried to clarify it here as to why the airport was only open during those times. Does that make sense? Airports in general are odd. Although Canada is a metric country we, like the US, give runways in feet while others use metres. Most countries, including major metric ones like France and Germany, give their elevations in feet. Most airports, but not all, give the distance from town in nautical miles but some give it as kilometres (nautical miles). However when nautical miles is abbreviated they always use NM rather than nmi and is actually sourced at Nautical mile#Unit symbol. The NM was added way back in 2008, see Template talk:Convert/Archive August 2008#Nautical miles. Cheers. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 17:17, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Copyedit

Thank you!

After a few hours of wrestling with brackets and reference tags, I go snowblind and cannot see the written English text any more!

Appreciated.

--Bridge Boy (talk) 13:05, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

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infobox for HMS Sirius (1786)

Moved to Talk:HMS Sirius (1786)

Hi, you undid my edit of the HMS Sirius (1786) article where I placed the wreck site location information in the infobox. If ship has been wrecked, I think it is appropriate to include such information in the infobox as this adds completeness to the information about the ship. The code that I used (if that is the correct word) was copied from another article and I have applied it to a number of articles in my area of interest. Can you suggest a better way of doing this? Cowdy001 (talk) 02:06, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

List of Valencian monarchs

We are working in parallel on this article. Look at the talk page. --DThomsen8 (talk) 23:49, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

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added links pointing to North and South and The Patriot

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added a link pointing to The Mirror

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See my talkpage

I've replied to your question there. --Orlady (talk) 15:13, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

(User_talk:Orlady/Archive_17#C. Oliver Iselin House) – link added 2012-12-08)

Disambiguation link notification for August 27

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United States lightship Huron (LV-103)‎

Moved to Talk:United States lightship Huron (LV-103)

It helps to look at whether the same information exists elsewhere on the web. Obviously, WP:linkrot is a fact. But is also useful to note that the Port Huron Times Herald article (that is a newspaper!) did not cease to exist (even though its URL was degraded) and that there is an MP3 of the interview and the engines. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:28, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Flag of Japan

Thanks for letting me know about the missing references. What happened is I used references from another article, but forgot to bring them over to the article in the citations. User:Zscout370 ^{(Return Fire)} 05:22, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

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41 for Freedom

Moved to Talk:41 for Freedom

Trappist, I put the names of all the submarines back on the page because I feel that they should be on there! If somebody is doing research or something they can find the link more easily. If you have any questions please feel free to email me. Thank You, tom991. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom991 (talk • contribs) 21:05, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

YET ONCE AGAIN 41 FOR FREEDOM

Moved to Talk:41 for Freedom

TRAPPIST, I reverted the edit for a reason. That reason is so that way the names are listed on the page without having to scroll down. Please leave it alone! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tom991 (talk • contribs) 00:14, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Edit window changes

Hey, Trappist. Thanks for the feedback on the edit window changes (and, as a wider point, how we handle deployments). I'm pleased to report we're restoring the edit tools on Thursday, assuming nothing goes catalytically wrong. In the meantime, we've got another set of ideas if you want to chip in :). I'm sorry to say that we haven't included a "beta" version in our plans (quite honestly, it's a very small change, technically speaking: tying it to a preference or whatever would bulk it up) but it's something I'm committed to looking into for more momentous stuff. Thanks, Okeyes (WMF) (talk) 21:02, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 7

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Sclass-

Template:Sclass- has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Br'er Rabbit (talk) 16:51, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

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Redirects

I was amused at your obsessive desire to have Valiant class tugboat deleted and in particular at your claim that "all criteria for deletetion have been met". Have you actually contacted all the people who are causing the title to receive at least five hits per day? — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 20:25, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Amused? Why? And why are you bringing it up nearly a fortnight after the fact? — Trappist the monk (talk) 21:50, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Three attempts to get rid of an harmless redirect seemed so pointless. A fortnight – because you may encounter other redirects in the future and be moved to get rid of them. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 21:56, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

What are you are thinking? That I'm some sort of ticking time bomb about to go off? That I will irrationally attempt to delete something? That you need to periodically twist the dial and reset my delete-a-random-article-timer? Hogwash.

Every page associated with the Valiant-class tugboats is my creation. When WT:SHIPS made the determination that articles about ship classes could (should) be hyphenated when the class name is an adjectival modifier of a ship-type noun, I took the opportunity to move Valiant-class tugboat to Valiant-class tugboat. The Valiant class is small so I viewed it as a learning experience and I wouldn't be stepping on anyone else's toes.

I changed everything that was Valiant class whatever to Valiant-class whatever. I think that I did everything necessary to make sure that there was nothing linking to the Valiant class redirect created by the move. I asked for speedy deletion of everything that was Valiant class. Some of it in fact, was deleted by you. Whomever it was who chose not to delete the Valiant class tugboat redirect used some reason not listed at CSD G7. I objected to that. If the G7 criteria listing isn't a complete listing of all of the criteria then there is work that needs to be done to fix that. In response to my objection where I listed all of the criteria and showed how they had been met, and in which you have found some amusement, Editor Reaper Eternal deleted Valiant-class tugboat and then promptly created a new version – which move stymied my request because I was no longer the author.

And there it stood until you felt some need to suggest that I have done wrong or that I might somehow concoct a nefarious scheme to go out and do wrong in the future. Shame on you.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:54, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Stars & Stripes (yacht)

Moved to Talk:Stars & Stripes (yacht)

I created this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Morrelli,_Chance_%26_Hubbart_%26_MacLane&redirect=no and if you look into the history you will see the bios that I wrote and researched in great detail. I posted the story on the wetta tri page on facebook well after I wrote it, some discussion regarding merging this data onto the Stars and Stripes page, and I am just now doing it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Morrelli,_Chance_%26_Hubbart_%26_MacLane&action=history

Please refrain from removing it, if you have something to say please use the talk pages. Thank you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Morrelli,_Chance_%26_Hubbart_%26_MacLane --WPPilot 23:34, 29 October 2012 (UTC)

Bounty (1960 ship)

Moved to Talk:Bounty (1960 ship)

Why did you remove the fact that she has two John Deere diesels for propulsion? I have heard it said on the news that she had no propulsion other than her sails and that is plainly wrong, see http://www.tallshipbounty.org/the-ship/statistics.php. The bad information may well have come from the fact that WP:EN had it wrong. . . Jim – Jameslwoodward (talk to me • contribs) 13:26, 30 October 2012 (UTC)

Governor Stone (schooner)

You made a revision to the infobox of Governor Stone (schooner). However, because much of the article was a copyvio, I reverted to an earlier version. Just letting you know in case your edit may still be warranted. Let me know if you need to see it. --SPhilbrick(Talk) 11:02, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for November 4

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Template:Gallery improved for empty width

Thank you for noting the problem when "width=" null. I have changed Template:Gallery/aux to show captions when empty "width=" is used to auto-adjust width to height, but also try new option "cellwidth=270" (added in September) to widen the image cells for balanced margins. See talk-page:

• Template_talk:Gallery#Broken.3F – shows "cellwidth=270" in example

Also note new options "width2=" or "width3=" to reset the width of just image #2 or #3, etc. I apologize that I did not see your talk-page entry from August, when I was updating that template in September; perhaps I was asleep at the wheel (again). -Wikid77 (talk) 12:48, 18 November 2012 (UTC)

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Dolphin class, use of italics for class members in infobox

I attempted to italicise INS Tallin. I had noted that the other entries had also been italicised. Is this stylistically incorrect? Irondome (talk) 19:34, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

I missed that – fixed now. I reverted because this was the first line in the article:

''Italic text''{{other uses|Dolphin class}}

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:41, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Ah no probs. See you around :) Irondome (talk) 20:14, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Wikilinks

Moved to Talk:Submarine

Hi Trappist the monk. There are many people who don't know what a noun means and if there is a wikipedia page for the word why should it not have a wikilink to it? If a wikipedia page is published for a certain word then is it not important enough to be linked to and if so why was it published in the first place? Your on views and opinions on what you call common words and don't require linking to may not be shared by the general public who refer to wikipedia for help and information on these very words. Looking forward to your response on this. Thanks --Jonhope123 (talk) 09:31, 5 December 2012 (UTC)

A beer for you!

A Lannister always pays his debts. Thanks for the copyedit and the help. Khazar2 (talk) 04:27, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 7

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St Peter's

Moved to Talk:St. Peter's Basilica

Re the citations for Banister Fletcher, the book that I used is not the current edition. However, some efficient person has come along and fixed all the original citations by changing them to the most recent edition. I'll will fix it, but it will take a month, as I am about 10,000 miles from my library. The same problem has possibly occurred in other articles. If you find more, can you alert me, please? At present I can't do very much as I'm on a borrowed computer and can only drop by every few days.

With regards to the list of artworks in the narthex, if they are not treated as an embedded list then they must become a number of very short paragraphs. The reason that they are listed and not paragraphed is that the objects: two clocks, two statues, two very different doors and three plaques, all warrant brief description but are not closely related. Because of the vast number and diversity of objects in St Peter's, embedded lists is the best way to go.

Formatting the contents of the three plaques into tables looks ugly in the context of the article. Was the formatting not working efficiently as columns? It looked OK on my screen. (I wasn't the editor who arranged it like that, but I thought that it looked fine.)

Amandajm (talk) 20:38, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Help a brother out?

Would you be kind enough to look over the History section on USCGC Smilax (WLIC-315)? I put this article up for DYK and have been halted due to close paraphrasing concerns in that section. Thanks for all of your help in copy editing the article. It is my first about a ship. Though their mission is not sexy the black hulled cutters of the Coast Guard do important work, and Smilax as the Queen of the Fleet, seemed notable enough for an article. Cheers. EricSerge (talk) 21:47, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Clothing their nakedness

I don't think I have ever seen problem-solving couched in quite those terms.
Allowing you to return to the serenity of your cloister, Varlaam (talk) 23:06, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

As notable as any other Les Mis Regional Production

I think the posting about the CMTSJ production of Les Mis was as notable as any other regional production. As noted in other previous talk posts regarding Les Mis, the regional production section should either be removed or enhanced to highlight regional productions on a more worldwide basis. I think the CMTSJ production was notable as it has never been produced by a non-equity company on the west coast of the U.S. H0ckeysk8er (talk) 06:51, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Talkback

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Hell In A Bucket (talk) 02:07, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Your AFD question

I'm sorry in the tardy response to your query about codified new editors and the application of IAR. Yes I would prefer something more to the lines of a policy in the treatment of articles for new editors, if we had those I believe life would be easier for you and me. I would not apply IAR to that situation (I don't like IAR anyways I think it's a cop out) that would be quite disruptive and ultimately not helpful in the grand scheme of things. The one thing I truly don't like though is the idea that because someone is new they get a different set of rules or standards. I believe that they should be held to the same standards as any of us, the one exception is that they are given much more thorough explanation to the why of things. That's the point I was trying and probably failing to make. I think we as editors regardless of who it is has to bend over for consensus even when we don't like it. Hell In A Bucket (talk) 05:05, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Talk:USCGC Fir (WLM-212)

I started a section to discuss the Gallery on USCGC Fir (WLM-212) about the time you reverted to the version of the article I support. I would appreciate if you contributed to that discussion. It seems we are dealing with a new, but well intentioned editor, who may not understand our best practices. Perhaps our discussion will educate the editor and improve their work by introducing them to our best practices. Thanks. EricSerge (talk) 13:06, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you...

		The Editor's Barnstar
		Thank you for your efforts to clean up the article USCGC Fir (WLM-212). Cuprum17 (talk) 15:43, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Autocue error

My apologies for the "reply to Trappist the monk' posting. As explained on the page, I added 'reply' to the edit summary and the rest was filled in from a previous posting. Best wishes. --Kleinzach 00:56, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Infoboxes:

I've archived the debate [1]. Nothing more productive was going to come, and the majority approved the motion that info boxes are not always necessary. Seems a good compromise.  Giano  19:10, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

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ISBN cat

Moved to Module talk:Citation/CS1 § ISBN cat

Regarding the ISBN cat, I chose Category:Articles with invalid ISBNs because it already existed and I figured it wasn't really necessary to create a new Category:Pages with invalid ISBNs for this. Do you disagree? Obviously it doesn't fit in with the current naming structure, but we're going to be reworking that anyway. Dragons flight (talk) 16:15, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Talkback help desk re 'Changing the citation style in an article'

Hello, Trappist the monk. You have new messages at Wikipedia:Help desk.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

– Toshio Yamaguchi 09:35, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Section

{{section}} started. --  Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 15:44, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

Anchor

You may be interested in Template talk:Anchor#Positioning. --  Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 21:02, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

June 2013

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Astrid (brig)

I just wanted to say thank you for your copyediting of Astrid (brig) – it's much appreciated. :-) Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:43, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

August 2013

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• principle that the sea was international territory, against the Portuguese ''[[Mare clausum]]'' {closed sea) policy, and all [[nation]]s were free to use it for seafaring [[trade]]. Grotius, by claiming '[[

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• ship capsized due to heavy wind – 8 [[Beaufort scale|Beauforts]] {{convert|17|–|20|m/s|km/h mph}}), and there were some claims of up to 11.5 Beauforts. The capsizing was mostly due to an overly-

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Another barnstar for you...

		The Editor's Barnstar
		For your interest in and continued improvements to the article United States Coast Guard. Your attention to the improvement of referencing style used in the article is exemplary and is sorely needed. Thank you... Cuprum17 (talk) 17:26, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

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Help with ship infoboxes & technical information

I'm really sorry to bother you –

A couple of months ago you were good enough to help me out with the infobox of HMS Godetia (K226), and in particular the section on technical details, armament & so on. I've since created HMS Buttercup (K193) and Belgian ship A4 and I just wondered if you might be able to add similar details to the infoboxes of those? Any help would be much appreciated!

All the best, Brigade Piron (talk) 10:29, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Really appreciated. Brigade Piron (talk) 13:36, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

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USS Cassin Young (DD-793)

Moved to Talk:USS Cassin Young (DD-793)

You added {{citation needed}} to my edit saying that she had been moved to East Boston. I had cited my photograph showing her in East Boston – why do you think a photo does not provide the necessary proof? To be sure, it cannot prove the exact date of the move, but it certainly proves the substance of the fact. BTW she was moved back on Tuesday of this week. . . Jim – Jameslwoodward (talk to me • contribs) 14:34, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Coincidence or machine-like precision?

I notice you launched your RFA at exactly midnight, with the diff saving just two seconds over the turn of the new day. Was this just a happy coincidence or an indicator of the attention to fine detail we can expect from your coding work if promoted? —Soap— 13:59, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

A year or so ago I built a digital clock that displays the time as it's streamed from a small Garmin GPS receiver. So, yeah, I clicked the Save page button at exactly 18:00:00 local time. The two seconds is something I had no control over. I had hoped that the series of events – clock, to eyes, to brain, to mouse finger, to browser, to Wikipedia's servers could have happened in less than a second. Alas, it was not to be. This one at 08:30:00.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:29, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

That didn't work. Watched seconds roll over to 08:29:30, was thinking 30. So there you are, perfectly normal falability.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:32, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Template editor userright

You've sparked a proposal that I thought you might be interested in contributing to: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Template editor userright. Feel free to provide any input you might have. equazcion ^(talk) 09:11, 10 Sep 2013 (UTC)

Your userpage

I don't usually express an opinion on an RfA then comment on the candidate's page, in fact i think this might be the first time i ever have, but i thought i'd drop by and reiterate my support for your lack of a userpage. In mine opinion, what languages you speak, where you're from, your gender or orientation or beliefs or...are really no one's business. As for what you do around here, that's easy enough to find out from contributions; some people put it on their userpage, some don't. That's all ~ your minimalist interpretation works for me. Cheers, Lindsay^Hello 07:27, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

I agree, although for different reasons. Personal information has a way of coloring perceptions of your actions, and people who demand such information tend to seek to do just that – judge your actions on something other than the actions' own merits. If you want people to know a little something about you in order to better understand your actions, that can be good; But when that info is demanded of you, I feel the motivation for that demand is generally off-kilter, and I don't feel any particular motivation to accommodate those people. equazcion ^(talk) 09:38, 11 Sep 2013 (UTC)

Thank you both for your kind words.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:26, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

I don't know, it seems odd not to spend the two minutes it would take to set up a User Page, even if it only contains your Username. I've only seen this occur on brand new accounts so I'm "Neutral" right now. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 18:42, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

At the same time it seems sort odd to base a decision on his lack of a userpage when all you want it to contain his username :) Just saying. equazcion ^(talk) 19:06, 11 Sep 2013 (UTC)

Being thought odd has never been a problem for me. All my life I've been odd. No reason to stop being odd now. Please judge me on my work and on my writings; those are a more accurate reflection of who I am than a user page could ever be.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:44, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

How about making a minimal user page like mine? At one time admins without user page were heavily frowned upon. Being too eccentric can be perceived as being disruptive here. jni (talk) 09:19, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Good disruptive or bad disruptive? I'm an advocate of good disruptive because it unsticks the status quo ante which allows for innovation and new ideas. I don't understand. Can you explain to me how lack of a user page equates to eccentricity and so equates to disruptive?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:24, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Not to steal his response but I think he meant disruptive purely to various comfort levels. I'm personally a fan of a little bit of that kind of disruption from time to time :) Though only in a limited sense, and only when it's fundamentally benign. A redlinked user page seems to fall into this category nicely. But I'll let Jni express his thoughts. equazcion ^(talk) 12:35, 12 Sep 2013 (UTC)

I have always used the word disruptive in negative sense, but I see your point and I practice WP:IAR from time to time myself. But it was Trappist the monk who made the "appeal to eccentricity" (just using word odd instead of eccentric) in above comment, not me. A redlinked user page for admin is relatively benign, but can confuse users new to Wikipedia. I don't find it disruptive per se, just a minor nuisance and a thing I have seen before many times. It is interesting that we currently have 7 admins without user page and one who has deleted his own talk page. jni (talk) 13:15, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

• Trappist, while I don't disagree with your position to not have a userpage, I would like to request that you at least at the appropriate categories to your talk page for your languages and any other appropriate aspects you would like to categorize yourself as. This will make it easier for people to find you if they need an editor that can translate xCitation template from a language you are familiar with or whatnot. Just a suggestion, thanks for your time. Technical 13 (talk) 19:48, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

I'll split the difference with you. Two userboxes on this page.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:17, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

• That's great, but I wasn't asking for userboxes (I like and support their use and think it's great if you like and keep them), only to add the categories (such as Category:User en-us from the {{User en-us}}). Anyways, it was just a suggestion. :) Technical 13 (talk) 00:54, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Concern

Hi Trappist, I wonder if you would consider responding to the concern raised by Benea on your RfA, because that might help me decide how to vote. Regards — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:03, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

 Done

WP:SOCK votes on your RfA

Hey, I would just like to give you a heads up that there may likely have been multiple votes by the same user on your RfA. Good luck! Technical 13 (talk) 19:42, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Documentation for |accessdate=

An attempt at a longer description

Hi, I noticed in your reply to Q.10 of your RfA, you said: "|accessdate= is specifically intended to identify the date that an editor consulted an undated, or ephemeral on-line source that is linked with the value in |url=. The identifier parameters to which you refer are used to produce external links to stable, dated journal articles. Because these types of sources are stable, and were published in dated journals, the correct parameter to use with them is |date=. |accessdate= in these situations is meaningless because there is no |url= and because the sources are not ephemeral."

That makes good sense to me, but if that's the principle, surely it should be more widely publicized? The problem is that there's a lot of redundancy in template documentation. Accessdate seems to be used in many of the CS1 templates – e.g. {{Cite journal}} has it because the citation might be a pre-publication version; each template describes it in the body of it documentation and in its template data; and it is also described on on general pages such as the CS1 help page and the CS1 errors help page. Furthermore, there's obviously a limit on the amount of text is feasible to include in template data versions of documentation. This is something I'd like to discuss more generally on the visual editor pages but I'd be very interested to understand your views first. What do you think? – Pointillist (talk) 12:57, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

The CS1 documentation as it exists now is largely the unheralded work of a single editor who picked away at it bit by bit as he also worked to unify the {{citation/core}} based versions of the Citation Style 1 templates. That it is as good as it is a tribute to his commitment to this Wikipedia backwater.

Documentation can always be improved. It's on my list of things to attempt.

If you are asking me about the text in your screen cap, that is certainly an improvement. I've never really liked the use of the 'accessed' term in the definition. That can simply mean that the editor was able to get to the page specified in |url=, which is not the same thing as consulting the source. Yeah, I know, minor quibble. But for the cases where editors are simply clothing naked url references already present in the article with CS1 templates, it could very well be that they only look to see that the page hasn't gone 404, and if it hasn't, slap on |accessdate= and call it good. If there is a way to convey the anchoring importance of |accessdate= to an ephemeral |url= web link, I haven't yet figured it out.

Did I get anywhere close to what you are looking for?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:53, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes indeed, if you are suggesting that I should consult Gadget850 (talk · contribs). I might hold off for a while though. If you are referring to Gadget850 then I can see that this might not be the best timing, and anyway I'd like to think about possible approaches. I'm wondering whether the way visual editor presents template data could be improved, so I probably need to do some mockups. I'll keep you informed anyway. – Pointillist (talk) 15:02, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

I was simply attempting to give credit where credit is well past due.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:26, 13 September 2013 (UTC)

Question about protected templates

I didn't want to get into a technical discussion in the RfA Q&A, but there is something I'm curious about. If the citation templates are protected because they are widely used, is there a reason why they are not versioned? It seems like user rights would be less of a problem if highly-visible templates could be edited in an unprotected state. Then the changes could be copied into the production version after the changes are tested. DPRoberts534 (talk) 04:51, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

Ah, I think I see now. It looks like that is what you are doing, but the problem is the backlog. Never mind. DPRoberts534 (talk) 05:03, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

You are now an administrator

Congratulations, I have just closed your RfA as successful and made you an administrator. Needless to say, this was a close result and I hope you will reflect upon the issues raised by those opposing, in particular in relation to times when they felt your conduct fell below that which is to be expected from administrators. I would also like to encourage you to create a userpage. Many contributors to the RfA (and several bureaucrats discussing the outcome) have suggested that this would be a good idea. Whilst you are not obliged to do so, and it is certainly not a condition of you receiving adminship, I agree that it would be a good idea. As an administrator, you will be much more a "public face" of the project. Agreeing to this request would also be a good way of showing that you have listened to constructive feedback and taken it on board, which (in my personal opinion) would be a good start to your time as an administrator.
Take a look at the administrators' how-to guide and the administrators' reading list if you haven't read those already. Also, the practice exercises at the new admin school may be useful. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to get in touch on my talk page. Best of luck, WJBscribe (talk) 14:31, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

• Well done and welcome to the Mop! Let's see a userpage though! --Brookie :) { – he's in the building somewhere!} ^(Whisper...) 14:32, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• Now that you're an administrator, don't you think you should create a user page already? Red just doesn't suit a person of your new stature. Blue is more regal. Just kidding. Teehee, and such. Congratulations :) Make us techies proud. equazcion ^(talk) 14:37, 17 Sep 2013 (UTC)
• Congratulations! -- Trevj (talk) 14:43, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• Congratulations! Since there seems to be some concern about your lack of a user page confusing editors that try to visit it looking for you that you do two things.
  1. Create User:Trappist the monk/editnotice where you can explain why your user page is empty and point to your talk page for discussion.
  2. and/or modify your signature so that it doesn't link to your uncreated empty userpage. Something like Something like [[User talk:Trappist the monk|<span style="color: #D20000;">Trappist the monk</span>]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) which would render as: Trappist the monk (talk) would retain the current look, but take the clicker to your talk page (as was suggested by a bureaucrat in the discussion to close the RfA).

Anyways, happy template and module editing! Technical 13 (talk) 14:51, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

• Congratulations and good luck! Jianhui67 Talk 15:02, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Your new uniform just arrived.

• Congrats! That was the closest RfA in a good while – well done on making it through. And have a T-shirt. :) — Mr. Stradivarius ^{♪ talk ♪} 15:07, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

• Congratulations! I would just like to let you know that there was nothing personal whatsoever in my 'oppose' vote because in fact I had never come across you before. This was a very difficult choice for the bureaucrats to make, and I can guess that you went through a hell of a time during the RfA, and a worse time waiting for the final outcome. Do rest assured however, that if I had been one of the 'crats, I would have had to weigh up the consensus as a very narrow 'promote'. All the best, Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 15:11, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• PS. With Mr. Stradivarius on that one – this was one close call, thanks for the excitement :) equazcion ^(talk) 15:21, 17 Sep 2013 (UTC)
• Happy coding! PaleAqua (talk) 15:26, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• I would like to mirror Kudpung's comment that my "weak oppose" was not reflective of your personality or whether or not I thought you would abuse the tools. I have always held a cautious opinion of granting people the tools with not as much 'administrative' experience as reflected in my RFA standards. I really wish the tools could be unbundled because I certainly recognize your hard work in custodial maintenance. That said I also agree with the bureaucrat's decision to promote you based upon all the comments. Mkdw^talk 18:19, 17 September 2013 (UTC)
• Congratulations. This was a good outcome, and I hope that future applicants making RfAs on a similar basis have their cases bolstered by your success. Best of luck with your work. — Scott • talk 18:20, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Congratulations. Here are what pass for words of wisdom from the puppy: Remember you will always protect the wrong version. Remember you must always follow the rules, except for when you ignore them. You will always pick the wrong one to do. (See #5) Remember to assume good faith and not bite. Remember that when you are applying these principles most diligently, you are probably dealing with a troll. Use the block ability sparingly. Enjoy the insults you receive when you do block. Remember when you make these errors, someone will be more than happy to point them out to you in dazzling clarity and descriptive terminology. and finally, Remember to contact me if you ever need assistance, and I will do what I am able. KillerChihuahua?!? DISCLAIMER: This humor does not reflect the official humor of Wikipedia, the Wikimedia Foundation, or Jimbo Wales. All rights released under GFDL. 16:02, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

1. +1... My RfA was quite similar to yours, as far as the !voting goes, but for a stupid poem that I wrote as an answer, that changed the opposers point of view. Didn't quite reach a crat chat, but can guess how you must've felt. Thanks for the offer of administration; try and take up increasing tasks as you become more experienced. Best regards. Wifione ^Message 18:43, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

• Very glad to see you succeeded. Hope you enjoy being an admin. Mark Arsten (talk) 19:48, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, thank you all. My thanks to all whether you supported my request or no. Specifically, @WJBscribe, it is abundantly clear that you brought disciplined, reasoned thinking to the challenge of this RfA; I appreciate that kind of quality work. Thank you. @Equazcion: No one has been more vocally supportive. Throughout this process I have repeatedly found myself astonished to read your posts, since, as far as I can tell, we have never encountered each other before. I blush. Thank you.

I want all to know that the criticisms voiced in the RfA are not unheard and will serve as guideposts for the future.

Thank you. (saving this post before another power outage comes along – spectacular lightning and thunder all round just now)

—Trappist the monk (talk) 20:31, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Let me append my congratulations – rarely have I seen such a close "vote" and I am sincerely glad you made it! Collect (talk) 14:55, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

You got mail

Sent you an email, check when you have a moment. Thanks :) equazcion ^(talk) 07:16, 18 Sep 2013 (UTC)

Got it, thanks. I think that you've made the correct decision and for the right reasons. Sometimes, ephemera are all the more memorable simply because they wink into existence and then are gone.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 10:52, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

September 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to St Anthony (ship) may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s and 1 "{}"s likely mistaking one for another. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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• The centre of the designation area was moved to the South East and the radius was increased from {[convert|75|m|abbr=on}} to {{convert|150|m|abbr=on}}.<ref>[http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2006/20062535.htm Statutory

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 12:34, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Redirect User page

Congrats. In the Crat discussion, it was mentioned that you, at the least should redirect your user page to this page to reduce potential confusion. Would you please do so? Alanscottwalker (talk) 17:27, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you.

You are correct, that suggestion was made. But, (isn't there always a but?) it was also said that a user page is not a requirement. That seems to be true because besides me, there are seven or so others who don't have user pages. I live my life at Wikipedia away from this place. You can see by the big red text at the top of the page and the several {{mdt}} templates that I live my life out there. Look for me out there.

For the time being, I think I'll keep things as they are.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 01:13, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, what? None of what you mentioned about your life appears to have anything to do with my request. Alanscottwalker (talk) 14:23, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Precious

templates
Thank you, helpful silent monk, for tireless quality contributions to templates, taking care of ships and launches, for cite repair, for pointing out problems precisely, for defining yourself here by your contributions alone, – you are an awesome Wikipedian!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 07:35, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Hello

		The Friendship Barnstar
		Nice to meet you. --Buster Seven Talk 13:31, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations on becoming an administrator. I have a small situation maybe you can help with. For the last week or so, when I go to edit a page, the template box does not engage. There is a drop-down menu but, when clicked, the 4 choices are displayed but none can be selected. Did I shut something off? Thanks....and good luck. ```Buster Seven Talk 17:46, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. I may not be the right person to ask that question. I don't use any of the tools in the toolbar above this edit window (the generic plain, non-VisualEditor edit window). I have seen questions that are similar to yours at Wikipedia:Help desk. Were I you, I think that I would start my search for a solution there because there are a lot of very knowledgeable editors watching that page.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 18:10, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

• Congratulations, and keep up the good work! -- Ohc ^¡digame!_{¿que pasa?} 03:35, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 23

Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Wikipedia appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited Stella Maris (ship), you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page CBC (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 09:27, 23 September 2013 (UTC)

Re: Ensigns

Hello, Trappist the monk. You have new messages at Mojoworker's talk page.
Message added 17:56, 26 September 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

help in modifying script

Would it be within your skill set to modify User:GregU/dashes.js? The person who wrote it is long inactive but the script remains extremely useful and otherwise has few false positives. However, template proliferation means that more protection for same is required. There has been a complaint that {{cite DNB}} and another one that {{anchor}} got changed by the script. Can you help? -- Ohc ^¡digame!_{¿que pasa?} 02:18, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Thinking on it.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:28, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

With regard to the {{cite DNB}} issue, the article titles at Wikisource contained a hyphen. In {{cite DNB}}, |wstitle= forms both the title and the link in the wikilink to the Wikisource page. When dashes.js changed the hyphen to an endash the link to the article was broken. It was broken because, at the time, there wasn't a redirect from the endash title to the hyphen title.

Since the time of the breakage and the complaint, another editor has created redirects from the endash titles to the hyphen titles. This seems to me to be the correct resolution to the problem because here in Wikipedia, MOS:ENDASH specifies an endash between two dates in a range. If left as hyphens in {{cite DNB}} some editor will notice and change the hyphens to endashes.

The statement that the Wikisource convention for DNB is hyphens seems a convention by omission of a guideline in the Wikisource Style guide. I have started a discussion there.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:49, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

With regard to the dashes.js script, the issue is that dashes.js saw a hyphenated date range within an {{anchor}} template. It changed the hyphen in the date range to an endash. I believe that I have fixed the issue. At the time of this writing, the anchor at the top of the TOC does not get changed when the dashes script is invoked. You are free to try it but before you do make sure that you bypass you browser's cache to use the current version of the script.

This link will take you to the anchor: #anchor-with-hyphens (1234-1243)

—Trappist the monk (talk) 16:22, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

• Thank you for fixing the script, and for your thoughtful response. Regards, -- Ohc ^¡digame!_{¿que pasa?} 03:21, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

• Trappist, thank you indeed for that bit of updating of such an important script! Tony (talk) 03:33, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Template editor

Considering Wikipedia:Requests for permissions/Template editor, do you have intentions of giving yourself the userright and giving up your admin tools? Ryan Vesey 17:09, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

It is probably a bit early to be asking that as the new protection level has yet to be applied to many pages and there is the issue of cascade protections not working with the template editor right. These limitation include the pages for which Trappist ran for admin to be able to edit. PaleAqua (talk) 17:46, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Granting myself a right that others must request is a bit untoward, isn't it?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 23:59, 17 October 2013 (UTC)

Since it is included in the admin rights, it is totally acceptable to keep that right and get rid of the rest if you wish. You "requested it" with your RfA. Although, you might want to mention it somewhere anyways. I totally understand if you plan on holding on to the admin bit until all the kinks are worked out of the system. Ryan Vesey 00:04, 18 October 2013 (UTC)

What a ridiculous question! Trappist passed an RfA and he's done nothing wrong since gaining the tools. The ones who actually abuse their tools won't give them up so why should an admin as benign as Trappist be asked to do so? Joefromrandb (talk) 01:29, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thank you so much for fixing the errors made by Bgwhite to the table on the Energetically modified cement page. It is much appreciated. I have posted a message on BBgwhite Talk page to inform him. Thank you again for taking the time and effort to fix things. Kind regards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.66.81.80 (talk) 13:35, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Deprecated year parameter?

Where was the consensus reached to make this change? I have started a discussion here. Boghog (talk) 07:15, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

November 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to 16th Empire Awards may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "{}"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

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• Simon |work=digitalspy.co.uk |publisher=[[Digital Spy]] |date=2011-02-24 |accessdate=2011-09-22}} }}</ref> at the [[Grosvenor House Hotel]]<ref name="news" /> and hosted by [[Dara Ó Briain]].<ref>{{

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 13:38, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Your user account

Please unredlink your account, particularly since you are an admin. This typo stood for nearly an hour, and I only realized it because I clicked so I could ping you for a response.[2] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:10, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Technical Barnstar
	For your assistance in providing a useful, and needed, update to {{cite map}}. Hopefully in the future we can get the rest of the update coded. Imzadi 1979 → 21:12, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

The Times

You could run AWB across all articles linked from User:Mjroots/Articles. That would at least catch all those I've been responsible for! Good work on the shipwrecks lists so far, but you've not done 1785-98 that I saw. Mjroots (talk) 21:21, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Actually I think I did. I was looking for the wikitext that rendered as Issue 12345. Looking in some of the 1785–98 pages I see stuff like this: |issue=Issue № 692. Wasn't looking for that but I will.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 21:54, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

I've sent AWB through your contributions list. Found and cleaned up a few more and I've cleaned up the |issue=Issue № 692. I found one instance of Issue '''12345 (unbalanced ''') and fixed that manually.

There are cases of stuff like this: |issue=940715 (sic) (List of shipwrecks in 1794). I'm inclined to leave those alone because they convey meaningful information. On the other hand, if that issue was given a 6-digit issue number, then perhaps the (sic) isn't necessary.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 22:52, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

The (sic) is necessary as the issue number is known to be wrong, but is quoted accurately. Mjroots (talk) 23:14, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

CS1 date errors

Hello Trappist.

I saw you changed a couple of templates. I thought they worked fine before. What kind of errors were there? What is CS 1?

Regards

HandsomeFella (talk) 14:32, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

I presume that you are referring to {{2008 Summer Olympics United States men's volleyball team roster}} and {{2008 Summer Olympics United States women's volleyball team roster}}. Both of those templates use {{cite web}} which is a Citation Style 1 (CS1) template.

The errors were date format errors. Before I changed the roster templates, the {{cite web}} parameters |date= and |accessdate= used {{dts}}. The output of {{dts}} with |format=dmy looks like this:

<span data-sort-value="000000002008-07-15-0000" style="white-space:nowrap">15 July 2008</span>

Compare that to the output of {{date}}:

15 July 2008

All of the styling produced by {{dts}} becomes part of the {{cite web}} |date= and |accessdate= parameters. When {{cite web}} is processed by Module:Citation/CS1 (the basic engine that translates a CS1 template into a human and machine readable citation) it checks date-holding parameters for valid dates. While the above does contain a valid date, the date is contaminated with all of the associated styling so Module:Citation/CS1 throws an error.

One last reason for the changes I made: the information from |date= is made part of the citation's COinS metadata for use by external referencing software. It is best for downstream users of that software if we, as the source of the references, don't contaminate our references with unnecessary content.

Too much information? Not enough?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:25, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

It was enough allright. ;-)

I think I'll have to digest that for a while.

Thanks for the explanation.

HandsomeFella (talk) 15:41, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Ah! Now I get it. {{Dts}} issues a lot of code intended for sorting. In these templates, the formatted date isn't actually used for sorting, only for obtaining the correct format.

It was I who added the dts template, because I didn't know of {{date}}. (Blushing.)

I'm afraid there are a whole bunch of similar templates out there using the dts template in the same way.

HandsomeFella (talk) 15:48, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Could be, but then perhaps not. See this catscan.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:56, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Okay, there were fewer than I thought. I only needed it for US- and Canada-related templates, because they were the only ones were the date would be formatted differently depending on were it was transcluded; mdy in US- and (possibly) Canada-related articles, and dmy in Olympics articles and other contries articles.

It's great that it is not so much work then.

HandsomeFella (talk) 16:02, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Comparing module with sandbox

I mentioned the following to someone ... I hope it wasn't you:) Re your CS1 update notice here, it would be easy to add a list of the modules you want to Module:Convert/tester (see convert_pairs) so something like the following would produce a handy list:

{{#invoke:convert/sandbox/testcases|check_sandbox|module=CS1}}

To see what that does, have a look at the example at the bottom of Module:Convert/tester/doc#Comparing a module with its sandbox. Hmmm, a "purge" link is needed because the results in that list are outdated. Johnuniq (talk) 22:08, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Nah, wasn't me. I think that's a pretty cool tool and think that you should cut it out of Module:Convert/tester as a standalone template that takes a list of modules and compares them against their sandboxes. If you did that, I'd put it at the top of each of the CS1 module doc pages so that anyone visiting a CS1 module could see at a glance the status of the suite of pages.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 01:12, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

I started thinking about that, but the syntax for usage defeated me. I suppose such a template could simply list all modules wanted (8 for convert), and the successive pairs would be compared. Template:Convert will probably be switched to using the module in under 24 hours so I probably won't get around to doing anything else for a while. Johnuniq (talk) 02:14, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

Edits to Module:Citation/CS1

Hi Trappist the monk. Your edits today to Module:Citation/CS1 appear to have broken all the Harvard citation links called by ref = harv . Sorry I don't know anythimg about programming but I am pretty sure it was your edit that did it because everything was working fine an hour ago. Thanks, -- Diannaa (talk) 19:20, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

@Diannaa: Examples please?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:29, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Schindler's List is the one I am working on today. I have purged the server cache on Adolf Hitler and duplicated the problem on that article. You may need to install the script available at User:Ucucha/HarvErrors to see what I mean. -- Diannaa (talk) 19:38, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Fixed I think.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:59, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Looks fine. Thanks for your prompt assistance. -- Diannaa (talk) 20:30, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

FYI

You may be pleased by the update on User_talk:Jonesey95#Thank_you. That is regarding fixing templates with citation error message.

By the way, we are not familiar yet, it seems. I used to be very active in error category fixing, back when that was done mostly with Template:Broken ref, years ago. See also User:Debresser/My_work_on_Wikipedia, where I recently removed most of my bragging about the hundreds of edits I made to error categories. You can still see edits of mine in the history of many citation templates.

In any case, I immensely appreciate your replies to my questions at Module talk:Citation/CS1, and I hope that together we can work to make citation templates yet a little better. Debresser (talk) 11:35, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

December 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to USS James Monroe (SSBN-622) may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "{}"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• *{{navsource|08/0862}}}}

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 20:25, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to 2013–14 Brazil network television schedule may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "{}"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• * ''Sangue Bom''<ref>{{cite web|url=http://televisao.uol.com.br/album/2013/03/18/veja-foto-das-gravacoes-de-sangue-bom-a-

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 11:56, 14 December 2013 (UTC)

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Annabel Vernon may have broken the syntax by modifying 1 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry: just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

List of unpaired brackets remaining on the page:

• History at [[Downing College, Cambridge]] where she rowed in the women's Blue Boat in 2003,<ref>[{{cite web |url=http://www.britishrowing.org/gb-rowing-team/biographies/annabel-vernon |title=

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 10:41, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Automatically archiving your talk page

I came here for a different purpose, but noticed that your talk page is long enough to make it less useable than it could be. You might want to consider setting up automatic archiving of your talk page. You can find more information at Help:Archiving a talk page#Automated archival]. Makyen (talk) 05:27, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Yep, I've been thinking about that and thought that I'd make an archive at the beginning of the new year.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 10:59, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Your CS1 deprecated parameters settings for AWB

I found your page User:Trappist the monk/CS1 deprecated parameters (AWB) through the AWB talk page. When you are ready, there is actually an appropriate page for you to put it under, or link to it from, within the AWB project pages. I happened to find the [Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser/Settings]] page while looking around there. It was orphaned from the project pages. I have linked it into the Find/Replace page so people can find it again. That way they can locate useful settings such as yours appears will be when you are ready to have others use it (if you want them to). Makyen (talk) 05:38, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. That page could use more publication because I'm sure that there are many more scripts out there that others might find handy.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:04, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

Please comment

Please comment at Template_talk:Medieval_Lands_by_Charles_Cawley#hiding_the_template.27s_output. Debresser (talk) 01:04, 26 December 2013 (UTC)

Certify request to usurp

Certifying the request to usurp User:monkbot. I think. Primarily this talkpage comment is intended to remove a rather large red error message from my usurp request. That error message is: "You have not added a confirmation link! Replace this message with the url that confirms that you hold the SUL for monkbot." I do not hold the SUL for monkbot.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:35, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Ok, go ahead and register it now. –xeno^talk 23:57, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

@User:xeno: Thank you. But there's a problem. Isn't there always? I'm not allowed to create User:Monkbot because it is apparently too similar to User:MonkBot. Do I need to usurp that account also? Or is there some other way around this issue?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 00:24, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

I can't usurp that account to you because it's part of a global account, that bot has 100k edits on its home wiki but looks inactive since 2011. I don't think it would be a huge problem for me to force create the account for you if you still want 'Monkbot', because of the inactivity and the fact that the bot doesn't operate here. Do you plan to only operate on en.wiki? –xeno^talk 14:21, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

I have no intention to operate anywhere other than en.wiki. If it is, or looks to become, a huge problem for you to force create User:Monkbot, don't do it. But, if you can without too much trouble, I would appreciate it. Thank you.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 14:55, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

I'll give you the name on the condition that if the oper of the de.wikibooks ever objects you would change it to something else. Email me so that I can create the account and have the software send you the password by email. –xeno^talk 15:08, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Agreed. Email sent. Thank you.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:12, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

Got it. Thank you.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:42, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

No problem. Happy botting, –xeno^talk 16:54, 3 January 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Barnstar of Diligence
	For your hard work in fixing technical issues. Jianhui67 talk★contribs 10:57, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	For your work in protected templates and other coding. Epicgenius (talk) 02:44, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

A Tesla Roadster for you!

	A Tesla Roadster for you!
	Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia! Gg53000 (talk) 12:48, 9 January 2014 (UTC)

Monkbot regex suggestions

Monkbot may want to look at User:Jonesey95/AutoEd/month.js for suggestions on regex patterns to include. I am not a regex wizard, but I have used this script to merge month and year in many hundreds of articles. I have never had it operate incorrectly, to my knowledge; I check every edit before saving. Each of the patterns was created to match and fix an actual text pattern in an actual article in an actual citation. Feel free to steal any of the code or the general idea behind any of the regex patterns. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:54, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Monkbot 1 seems to be bogged down in the approval process for some reason inexplicable to me. I've used it to make thousands of supervised edits without error.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:16, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Approval sometimes takes time just for someone with adequate authority to get around to it. It's all volunteers, many of us with other responsibilities. Patience. It seems like a long wait, but a few days is not much in the scheme of things. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:12, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Template:Acad

As you and I are the only ones who seem to be interested in the template. please see Template talk:Acad#Displaying the id parameter -- PBS (talk) 09:40, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

Comparing module with sandbox 2

We briefly discussed Module:Convert/tester, see your archive. I have added some features so it is now easy to make a table showing the status of modules (or templates if "Template:" is entered).

{{#invoke:convert/tester|compare|Convert|Template:Convert|Citation/CS1|ConvertNumeric}}

• Module:Convert • Module:Convert/sandbox • same content
• Template:Convert • Template:Convert/sandbox • different (diff)
• Module:Citation/CS1 • Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox • different (diff)
• Module:ConvertNumeric • Module:ConvertNumeric/sandbox • different (diff)

The following examples use built-in keywords.

{{#invoke:convert/tester|compare|cs1}}

• Module:Citation/CS1 • Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox • different (diff)
• Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration • Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration/sandbox • different (diff)

{{#invoke:convert/tester|compare|cs1all}}

• Module:Citation/CS1 • Module:Citation/CS1/sandbox • different (diff)
• Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration • Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration/sandbox • different (diff)
• Module:Citation/CS1/Whitelist • Module:Citation/CS1/Whitelist/sandbox • different (diff)
• Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation • Module:Citation/CS1/Date validation/sandbox • different (diff)

If using this, a line saying "To see the current results, it may be necessary to ." should be included. Johnuniq (talk) 06:00, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Excellent! I've added it to Module:Citation/CS1/doc. Well done!

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:17, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Fixing CS1 ISBN errors

Hi, re this edit - all that you did was to alter some spaces to the hyphen-minus character, and both are valid in an ISBN - the validity is not affected by the spacing or hyphenation, it's the digits that matter. Looking at the previous version, there is a showing for the Goode book, which you didn't touch; but not for either of the two {{cite book}} which you altered. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:09, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Since that edit I've changed the script to allow spaces as separators so what you see there shouldn't happen again.

The script is a simple search and replace that is looking for certain commonly occurring groupings of the ISBN digits: 1-333-55555-1, 1-4444-4444-1, 22-333-4444-1, etc. That Goode ISBN 09508239/2/9 doesn't match any of the commonly found patterns so it was, rightly I think, ignored.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:21, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

The ISBN in the article 09508239/2/9 is a clickable link, and it takes you to a Special:BookSources which has no error message. A quick check of some links there - like the WorldCat one - shows that it goes to an entry with the appropriate author and title, so I presume that it's the correct ISBN for the book concerned. Accordingly, I fixed it by changing the slashes to hyphens, and I also inserted one more hyphen after the first digit. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:02, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

The script that sends the ISBN to Special:BookSources strips out everything in the string except numbers and the letter "X" when it forms the ISBN that it uses for searching. It is quite tolerant of malformed ISBNs; as long as all of the numbers are there in the right order and there are no extra numbers, Special:BookSources works.

Citation software that extracts parameter values using the COinS metadata may not be as tolerant, which is why CS1 citations report ISBN errors for any character except numbers, X, hyphens, and spaces. – Jonesey95 (talk) 17:20, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Yes, ISBN 09508239/2/9 is clickable in a CS1 citation because Module:Citation/CS1 supplies the link to Special:BookSources. You'll notice that the Wikimedia magic link doesn't. The code behind Special:BookSources strips anything that isn't a digit or an 'X' from the ISBN string and then validates the clean string of digits.

Because the position of the separators (dashes or spaces) has meaning depending on the values of the adjacent digits, were it up to me, I would have simply removed the two slashes because I don't know that the 1-7777777-1-1 grouping is correct for that publication without I see it from the source. ISBNs without separators are correctly formatted.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:22, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks, I just noticed that the ISBN that I copypasted here didn't click so I amended it. Regarding grouping: for an ISBN-10, there are always three groups; the first and fourth groups are always one digit each; the size of the middle two varies but taken together they total 8. As a general rule, the higher the number, the greater the size of the second group and hence the third group is correspondingly smaller. In this case, I got the specific grouping from ISBN#Pattern. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:31, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Monkbot & deprecated parameters : question

Hello Trappist: I see Monkbot fixes deprecated date parameters. And Help:CS1 errors mentions other errors, like coauthor=. But the dropdown template for citations lets us fill in citations like this: <ref>{{cite book|last=Last name|first=First name|coauthors=Why does this allow coauthors?}}</ref> Shouldn't the easily accessible template be fixed? (Sorry if my non-technical mind is being vague.) Thanks. – S. Rich (talk) 18:34, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Updates for Atomic tests listing pages

Sir Trappist, I'm the updater for sites with lists of atomic bomb tests on them, some 90 or so. I recently updated the entire set, and used the wrong sort of deprecated date thing for all the tests dates; they came out as mdy rather than dmy. I've fixed the error in my templates, and all of them will be updated when I sweep all the pages again. Just letting you know; your bot seems to be a bit put out that someone updated the pages since last time he came through. Thanks for all you do. SkoreKeep (talk) 19:38, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Later: Oops, sorry. The bot was correcting something I didn't write. Please excuse what I said above. SkoreKeep (talk) 19:41, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Mongol Armenia?

Please look at Talk:Mongol Armenia and consider the proposed change of name.--DThomsen8 (talk) 01:13, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Admin's Barnstar
	Thank you for your hard work on CS1 deprecated date parameter errors. Well done! Daniele.tampieri (talk) 10:46, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Go Monkbot!

There are 162,713 articles in Category:Pages containing cite templates with deprecated parameters at this writing. – Jonesey95 (talk) 19:40, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Still need a bot flag, but that will happen in due course.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 19:50, 12 January 2014 (UTC)

Hi. Just randomly saw one of your bot's edits in Huggle: ref – You may want to fix the spacing that's removed. Not all that important, I know, but it kind of messes up the look of the template source. Cheers! ~ | twsx | ^talk_cont | ~ 12:14, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

What you're suggesting may not be possible; not all citations have been nicely dressed so that all parameters have uniform spacing. Monkbot task 1 assembles a single |date= parameter from usually two, but sometimes three, separate parameters; all of which can be spaced differently: |day = 13| month=January |year =2014. What's a poor bot to do? Which is the preferred style?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:28, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Extensive Regex should be able to do the trick. I don't know your patterns and all that, thought I'd mention it in case it's an easy fix. However, seeing as it is not, better to have it done with a not all that important space removed, than not having it done at all. ~ | twsx | ^talk_cont | ~ 12:40, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

The patterns are here: User:Monkbot/Task 1: CS1 deprecated date parameters.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 15:13, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for running this bot. It is through the actions of this bot I learned about the deprecated date parameters. - - MrBill3 (talk) 10:33, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

First pass done!

Monkbot's first pass through the category has just completed. There are currently 115,085 articles in Category:Pages containing cite templates with deprecated parameters, a drop of almost 50,000. A few thousand of those articles were added by the job queue after Monkbot began its initial run through the category, so I believe Monkbot removed over 50,000 articles from the category. A second run through the category is probably the next logical step.

Monkbot made 73,543 edits in 18.5 days. That's an average of 166 edits per hour, including rest periods. – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:24, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Addendum: I see that the second pass was kicked off while I was writing this. Bon voyage, Monkbot! – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:25, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Second pass is done, nearly 8,000 edits in 13.5 days. There are 108,424 articles in the category. Nice work, Monkbot. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:53, 14 February 2014 (UTC)

Is Monkbot breaking things? / Why did it did it break apart and mix up the dates on Palestine?

Is Monkbot breaking things? / Why did it did it break apart and mix up the dates on Palestine?
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Palestine&curid=1114732&diff=592738300&oldid=592632828 DigDeep4Truth (talk) 07:02, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't think that Monkbot has broken anything. To take the first fixed citation as an example (leaving out |quote= for clarity):

{{cite journal |title=Palestine and Israel |journal=Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research |first=David M. |last=Jacobson |editor-first=James M. |editor-last=Weinstein |number=313 |year=1999 |month=February |publisher=The American Schools of Oriental Research |issn=0003097X |pages=65–74 |jstor=1357617 |accessdate=28 February 2012}}

was changed to:

{{cite journal |title=Palestine and Israel |journal=Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research |first=David M. |last=Jacobson |editor-first=James M. |editor-last=Weinstein |number=313 |date=February 1999 |publisher=The American Schools of Oriental Research |issn=0003097X |pages=65–74 |jstor=1357617 |accessdate=28 February 2012}}

In the above, the |year=1999 |month=February was changed to |date=February 1999.

Comparing the rendered results:

Jacobson, David M. (1999). Weinstein, James M. (ed.). "Palestine and Israel". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (313). The American Schools of Oriental Research: 65–74. ISSN 0003-097X. JSTOR 1357617. {{cite journal}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)

Jacobson, David M. (February 1999). Weinstein, James M. (ed.). "Palestine and Israel". Bulletin of the American Schools of Oriental Research (313). The American Schools of Oriental Research: 65–74. ISSN 0003-097X. JSTOR 1357617. {{cite journal}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)

This is, I think, just what Monkbot is supposed to do. Are you seeing something that I am not?

—Trappist the monk (talk) 12:54, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I am not sure breaking is the right word, but superfluous might be better. It changes nothing in the appearance, both are correct and the difference therefore is a style issue which I am not sure should be changed throughout. I guess what I am saying is, isn't there better things to be focused on. I only enter the discussion because a similar thing happened to Amdo, an article have been revising.speednat (talk) 23:46, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Are there better things to focus on? Undoubtedly. I chose to focus on this relatively minor issue so that Monkbot task 1 coud be a learning experience.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 11:59, 14 February 2014 (UTC)