User talk:ToBeFree

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The Blue Rider, Helping at WP:VA

Hi there,

I just noticed that User:The Blue Rider got blocked recently and you seemed to have an understanding conversation with him/her. I don't normally approach the admins so I apologize if this isn't the proper forum; I don't know the details about why they were blocked either.

Next time their block is being reconsidered though, I just wanted to add that The Blue Rider strikes me as a helpful participant at WP:VA, where I mainly interact with them. The VA project in particular is under-appreciated, involves a lot of cat-herding, and inevitably brings out WP:FAN behavior. So every fair and reliable contributor there makes a big difference. I just wanted to let you and your colleagues know so you can factor that in, especially if there's a possibility of making their block partial in the future. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 21:03, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Zar2gar1,

Thank you very much for the kind feedback in favor of a user's return. This is rare and valuable. To me personally, at the moment, The Blue Rider's behavior has left me without short-term hope for a way for them to return to editing without disruption. Some users write wonderful featured articles and end up being banned for their uncivil behavior. Some users are great template coders and create wonderful technical improvements yet end up being banned for their uncivil behavior. To me personally, this is a sign of a healthy community with working measures and institutions against disruption, attacks and harassment. To me personally, someone working productively and collaboratively in one narrow specific area while starting fights in multiple other locations needs to remain blocked. Whether that changes, we'll see; I'll definitely take your point into account if the discussion comes up.

Best regards and thanks again,
~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:54, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) I haven't looked closely enough to have an opinion on The Blue Rider's block and don't plan to, but User:Pppery/The iceberg is worth a read in situations like this. I would say that as a general matter the community has gone too far in the deletion of banning otherwise productive people for incivility and is sabotaging itself as a result. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 00:38, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi Pppery, I generally agree with the idea that a "this user can be replaced" mentality in a large volunteer project can lead to the loss of the only person who cared about a specific topic, or one of the few people who patrolled a specific noticeboard or something similar. I disagree with the idea that bans are part of this issue, as bans result from the community dealing with actual disruption in a situation where other people would start leaving the project if the behavior remained unsanctioned. A "we need this editor's contributions despite their behavior" mentality is what ArbCom exists to steer against, what "discretionary sanctions" have been created to counter (preventing quick unblocks made with exactly this reasoning), et cetera. This view can become a real problem if too many members of a community loudly have it. And regarding this specific editor, the emotional blackmailing that hit me and those watching their talk page yesterday is something you can be happy about not having looked at. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 01:14, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

I appreciate the reply, and I agree 100% that you have to run a tight ship. Like I said, I don't know the details of what led to the block; I only noticed it because I planned to respond to something they wrote at VA.

I felt I should bring this up just in case you decide later that the problems can be limited to specific areas of Wikipedia. I can only vouch for my own impression of their behavior at VA, which has always seemed positive to me, and AFAIK nobody there has ever raised any significant complaints.

Anyways, thanks for taking the time to reply, and best wishes. It's a tough gig being an internet admin, not something I'm cut out for, so you have my respect. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 01:58, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you ~ ToBeFree (talk) 02:10, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Fwiw, I worked in a toxic environment for years because the manager would not take action because the toxic individuals, "did a good job." it's hard to balance all of the needs involved. -- Deepfriedokra (talk) 08:54, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello. As the editor who templated User:The Blue Rider [1], which initiated the most recent ANI discussion, I'd also like to add my support in favor of future return of User:The Blue Rider. User:The Blue Rider will need to completely stop uncivil comments such as this [2]. If this condition is met, I think they can be a benefit to the project in the future, after a bit of a cool-down period.

Even though I disagreed with The Blue Rider in some of the WP:VA discussions, I also think The Blue Rider makes positive contributions there. A lot of people ignore WP:VA, but I think it's useful in organizing and prioritizing Wikipedia articles.

Also note that after this exchange [3][4], The Blue Rider and I still had a calm debate here: Wikipedia_talk:Vital_articles#RfCs_for_nominating_articles. The Blue Rider provided a study that is favorable to aspects of WP:VA [5] (here's the study: [6]).

I also understand their comment. Template:Contentious topics/alert/first indeed says You have recently edited a page related to .... The fact that talk page discussions are covered under Wikipedia:Contentious topics/Arab–Israeli conflict is not in the template.

I know this discussion is early. But if there is a future discussion about unbanning this editor, and if I miss it, please include my support and this diff. But my support is conditional on complete stop of uncivil comments. Thanks! Bogazicili (talk) 18:15, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Hello Zar2gar1 and Bogazicili, has The Blue Rider sent you a message or asked for support somewhere? ~ ToBeFree (talk) 21:46, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Not to me no. I had put their user page to my watchlist and saw what happened, including edit summaries. Bogazicili (talk) 00:12, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

No, he / she did send me a welcome-back message a couple weeks back after I came back from a wiki break.

I edit Wikipedia as just a periodic hobby & writing practice so I try to avoid any drama or edit wars. This is the first time someone I've interacted with over time got a block though.

I was a little hesitant because I understand processes like this shouldn't have any personal biases. Just in case you were on the fence about a limited block someday though, I felt it was only fair that someone vouched for them away from whatever precipitated the block. Zar2gar1 (talk) 00:24, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for the clarification! This is very kind of you both. I personally currently lack the hope needed for even a partial unblock, but we'll see. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 02:54, 14 November 2024 (UTC)

Reminder to participate in Wikipedia research

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BGerdemann (WMF) (talk) 00:18, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Unblock account

2months back account got blocked. Now terms and policies are understood and will be followed. Kindly unblock my ip and account Ruben015 (talk) 07:57, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Contentious topics/anchor

Template:Contentious topics/anchor has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Gonnym (talk) 13:53, 13 November 2024 (UTC)

WP:PERM/EC

Hello, @ToBeFree,

Could you please look at my contribution and give me your opinion? Have I gained the necessary experience that the community expects from me? Thank you in advance for your opinion, it is important to me. --Alex091981 (talk) 15:03, 13 November 2024 (UTC)