User talk:Spideog/Archive 2

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Infobox for Seamus Heaney Collected Poems

Regarding the use of "spoken word" vs. "studio" for the TYPE of album in the infobox... you are correct in saying that "spoken word" is a more accurate description of the album, but that is not what the infobox category is for. (I was the one who changed it to "studio" and you changed it back.) Album articles are categorized by the value in the TYPE field in the infobox, and "spoken word" is not a recognized category. See here: WikiProject Albums: Infobox: Type. The fact that the album is spoken word is clearly stated in the general description. The TYPE field is not meant to be an exact description, and for this album it should be either "studio" or "live" (if the radio station recording was live). Since you are clearly passionate about the article, I trust you can make a change appropriately. But note that the article is currently appearing in this list, which attracts the attention of other editors. DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 23:24, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

Noted, thank you. Article changed back to reflect standard Wikipedia category. --O'Dea (talk) 01:33, 26 April 2010 (UTC)

Presidenta

You are right about the use of the word presidenta. I looked some info after doing the edit and I found out that the word has been accepted and its use is considered correct. I do apologize for the wrong information, actually I was going to go ahead and revert my edit but I forgot it. I´m sorry for changing this, I was just misinformed, but thanks for all the examples clarifying my error. Sincerely, --Philip200291 (talk) 04:59, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Chinchilla

Hi Odea, I see that you and Therequiembellishere are engaged in a match over the usage of the Costa Rican president's name in the List of current heads of state and government page. Why is it such a crucial point for you to include 'Miranda' too in her name while the title of the article about her only says 'Laura Chinchilla'? ZBukov (talk) 00:02, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I have proposed a move of that article and you may follow my points in support at its talk page. But even in advance of any decision, it seems to me simply destructive of Therequiembellishere to undo undisputed factual information without offering justification or reason. I added the new president to a few relevant listings pages even before proposing the subject's page move and Therequiembellishere came along afterwards and simply truncated my work, which was not incorrect, without providing a justification. Indeed, my entries supply more identifying information and are thus more information-rich, than the result of his destructive pruning. I consider it very poor practice and bad faith to delete good information: it goes against the generous, voluntary, collaborative spirit upon which the existence and growth of the encyclopaedia relies. Errors or badly written material or other junk should be pruned, but it is bad manners to cut good material. --O'Dea (talk) 00:16, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but are you not going to respond to me now? After weeks of pestering me? After weeks of essentially wikistalking me? I feel almost cheated. No, wait--it's satisfaction. Therequiembellishere (talk) 15:00, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

What? --O'Dea (talk) 06:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Moore Hall, Co. Mayo

Hello Odea, I see you have been doing an awful lot of edits on an article I created on Moore Hall. I have just checked on the page views and I see now that there are hardly any page views on the article you have merged mine with. When I started the article I took much time linking the article to many other articles and now that you have changed the name of the article those links are you sure that the many links I created are still working? Because if they don't work the article is now as good as useless again and you will have to go into all the pages I linked it to and change all those links. There were a great many more page views to my article than to where you have moved it to now. My original article had between 6 and 20 page views per day - now the article you have integrated with it has mostly zero or only 1 or 2 page views a day. Maybe it would have been better to combine yours with mine rather than the other way around? Also, you still havn't added a picture to improve the article. I hope you can figure out some way of getting the Moore Hall article on a good footing again as its a great place. I see you've kept the video footage but as you have changed my article so drastically I think you had better add some pictures to make up. I understand an article I create is not mine but the annoying thing is that you have taken mine off which had by far the most page views and put it in along with yours which had hardly any page views at all. I initially had the article on Moore Hall in with the Barony in which it is situated - maybe that's why we seem to have overlapped in creating it or maybe its just coincidence?? I'm not sure, but I would like you to do a lot of work on making sure all the articles I made links to are still working. Thanks. Comhar (talk) 15:02, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Hello Comhar.

Thank you for starting the Moore Hall article which is a useful and informative contribution.

I am confused by your concerns. You repeat a few times, wrongly, that I "merged" "your" article and "mine". I have not merged any article with any other: I simply made adjustments to the existing article by creating sections to break up the text, performing some copy edits, contributing new information, and improving the coding of the links.

I did try to move the article from its original title Moore Hall, Co. Mayo to Moore Hall, County Mayo but I was unable to do so for technical reasons. I requested help from an administrator, and he kindly performed the move.

The move was done to rename the article for two reasons which I spelled out in my formal move request, as follows: 1. International readers can not be assumed to know what the abbreviation "Co." means. (You may think that is a joke, but I have met people in my foreign travels who frowned when I talked about Ireland: they had not heard of the country, as ridiculous as we might think that is, but Ireland is, in fact, a very small country and it is less notable to others than to its citizens.) 2. Renaming the article gives it a standard name, conforming to the naming convention used in articles about other Irish towns, including Mayo towns. The fully spelled out "County" is always used in such article names.

There is no need to be concerned that people will be unable to find the article because of the rename: the old name, Moore Hall, Co. Mayo, is now a redirect page which automatically and invisibly passes people to the new article location at Moore Hall, County Mayo. Old links to the article will continue to operate as if no change had occurred. If there has been a temporary drop in traffic, it is just part of the internet "weather". Renaming can not affect the popularity of the article: the redirect mechanism ensures that the article will continue to be found from old links: try them and see.

You complain that you spent "much time" linking other articles to this one, but there is evidence of only seven other articles linked to this one, as follows:

• County Mayo
• List of historic houses in the Republic of Ireland
• George Moore (novelist)
• Carra, County Mayo
• Lough Carra
• Moore Hall
• Maurice George Moore

These articles, above, continue to be linked to the article you began, so be assured your work was not wasted or destroyed, nor will you be obliged to re-code the link work you have done.

Finally, you are presuming too much in making unjustifiable demands concerning photographs. You say: "you still haven't added a picture to improve the article" and "I think you had better add some pictures to make up." Comhar, you must realise: 1. No editor can demand pictures from another contributor. 2. I own no pictures of Moore Hall with personal copyright that I can add. 3. What do you mean by saying, "you still haven't added a picture"? Your use of "still" is greatly presumptuous and imagines that I am obliged by duty to contribute a picture. No contributor is so obliged; I must reject your assumption; and you are free to supply your own pictures if you want any. 4. One does not barter in Wikipedia like this. If anyone edits an article, he is not in any way obliged to "make up" for his work by doing yet further work searching for pictures to "atone" for improving an article. Such logic makes no sense in Wikipedia.

I do have further edits in mind for the article when time allows because Moore Hall and its inhabitants are worth documenting well, and this article as it stands is a good beginning of a rich story. Wikipedia readers are obliged to you for doing so much work on it. --O'Dea (talk) 16:13, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Ok, thanks, take your point on use of County rather than Co. - and I have checked the links - they do work as you say. Had a previous experience where someone did similar and none of the links worked then. The article looks better today than it did yesterday - not that my version looked good - it did need more work because it was all in a single chunk. Do you too have difficulty in managing to use other people's pictures off eg. Flickr.com? I've never managed to work out how to do it - I thought maybe you know. There are several excellent photos on Flickr of Moore Hall. I've never been able to manage to put photos onto Wikipedia except by using my own and I don't have one of Moore Hall which is why I put those video documentaries on instead. It's looking good now - looking forward to seeing it improve all the time. Comhar (talk) 18:39, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

Promotion

Fergananim: I read with interest (and a little amusement) your remark at another talk page that, "Thanks to some surriptitious (but perfectly legal) work by yours truely, County Mayo is in the top five of irish country bios, numericaly."

How do you promote articles in a "surreptitious (but perfectly legal)" way? I am eager to understand. Also, where can one read such ranking statistics as top five or top ten anythings in Wikipedia?

Thank you. --O'Dea (talk) 05:42, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi there! Well, I'm sorry to say my surriptitious work was all hard slog, writing biographical articles on Mayo people AND remembering to include the category People from County Mayo at the bottom of each one. If you click on said category at the bottom of any such article, it will give you a list of all other Mayo people included in the category, listing the numbers at the top. While on that page, you can click on the category People by county in Ireland and it will display the number of bios by county.

Please feel free to add more, just so long as you abide by Wikipedia guidelines. Keep them short and sweeet, so you can add more material as you go on. Ideally, I would like to see ALL counties with a minimum of 300 biographical articles.

Galway is top of the list, with 1432 articles on people from the early centuries AD to the present, with several in each interveaning century. Dublin is second with 1317 but has very little pre-1600. Cork is 3rd, Tipperary is 4th, and Mayo is 5th. I tend to write articles on Irish people, from whatever county, from before 1700 because there was so little on such people. Also, whenever I find a article already written but does not include a county category, I add it. Keeps our numbers up, and compares very favourably with other nations. Fergananim (talk) 01:43, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi Fergananim, thanks for the insights. I had some hunches along those lines myself when I reflected on the question. I must look at some of those category pages you mentioned. --O'Dea (talk) 03:30, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Regional Roads template

Hi, I have replied on my talk page. Snappy (talk) 11:34, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Moore Hall photograph

I got this from Flickr but am not sure that it was uploaded correctly from that source. I see there is some sort of notice about its copyright licensing (Wikimedia Commons) if you double click on photo. I have tried to get photos from Flickr before and this is the first I've ever managed to get off it. (I'd also like their photos of lighthouses on Eagle Island, Blackrock Island, Ballyglass and Blacksod but have failed to manage to get them to load to the commons site.) I hope this stays on the Moore Hall article but I still can't work out how to upload any but my own photos onto Wikipedia (and that took me several months to work out!) It may be ages before I can get as far as Moore Hall to take some photos myself. Fingers crossed. Comhar (talk) 17:55, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I saw "your" new picture just a while ago and I thought it was nice to have it in the article, but then I clicked on it to see the larger size and saw you had been challenged to provide proper licensing for it. I didn't say anything to you because I don't know how to go about doing that. You could research it in Wikipedia Help or ask any Administrator, who has helped you in the past, to advise you. I found good pictures of Moore Hall in Flickr last week but since I didn't know how to grab them in a valid way, I just admired them and moved on. Good luck. --O'Dea (talk) 18:23, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I really don't know what to do. Have asked other editors before but I still don't understand how to get pictures off Flickr legally. Supposedly it can be done but the details are so ambiguous that I can't make head or tail of them. If its removed, I'll go to Moore Hall myself and take some photos. If its a nice day tomorrow I might get out there n see what's new in Ballinrobe at the same time!!

Articles for deletion nomination of R830 road

I have nominated R830 road, an article that you created, for deletion. I do not think that this article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and have explained why at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/R830 road. Your opinions on the matter are welcome at that same discussion page; also, you are welcome to edit the article to address these concerns. Thank you for your time.

Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. Shadowjams (talk) 09:56, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

Flume Ride

A ride at a waterpark, similar to a Log flume (attraction).

Space Race article rewrite

Hi Odea:

I'm rewriting the Space Race article, if you could contribute, please do so. At the rate I am going, the article will likely be over 200k, so it will have to be segmented, and necessary abbreviation will be needed to keep the main article within Wikipedia norms for article length. You seem to have educated knowledge of the American Space Program from the 1960s and early 1970s -- the period covered by the Space Race -- so I invite you to look over my edits, and contribute what you can. I understand you have similar issues with User:JustinTime55 as I do, but I think that person means well, though obviously is uniformed and can't write if their life depended on it. Hope you can help, since your lineage seems to be the APSJ., which I own, thanks to Spacecraft Films (Mark)

Take care, --Abebenjoe (talk) 04:40, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

That space race article is badly bloated and should be made more approachable with some heartless pruning. I believe people as a rule come to a site like this looking for explanations of things that won't eat up half their day, like those didactic guys who won't give you a simple answer but clear their throats, mount their hobby horses, and deliver a learned but ponderous lecture when all you need is an introduction or a simple answer. It is possible that a helpful summary of the whole era could be written at the beginning to spare people having to brave the entire thing.

An alternative approach would be to write a much shorter space race page and branch off to separate articles that delve into greater detail for those who need it. This is a common approach for big subjects, like nation articles: Separate sections introduce a topic but also provide links to separate sub-articles such as History of Armenia, Geography of Armenia, Politics of Armenia, branching off as children of the main Armenia article. This yields a result which serves every need: the main article offers an overview while the offspring articles cover matters in delicious detail for those who want it. I appreciate both kinds of article for my varying needs. For now, this article runs to an entire 13 pages as a PDF booklet before the References section is reached.

I am genuinely surprised to see the space race defined as lasting from 1957 to 1975; in all my reading on the subject, I have never seen it proposed in that way. I would amputate that statement, too, because the race ended spectacularly and definitively in 1969. Salyut, Skylab and ASTP were products of the race, but not part of it, and quickened the pulses of only a dedicated minority. I would remove the latter parts of the article dealing with those programmes because I don't believe they belong there.

I am reluctant to begin editing the article if you are intent on building it up beyond 200K when I would be likely to tear out chunks of it to make it something more people might read. I have no appetite for the confrontations over content that go on here: they are often futile and eat up your life.

It is unclear what you mean by "your lineage seems to be the APSJ., which I own". I don't know what the APSJ is but I have done work on the ALSJ which does not belong to you but to NASA, and through NASA it is free to the world. I do not imagine that the agency will relinquish ownership of a project which was created by volunteers and made available online at no cost. A four-year-old, out-of-date snapshot of the site can be bought in disc form by anyone who wants it, but I am certain the curator of the site would be alarmed and offended if he thought anyone might claim ownership of years of his dedicated voluntary work, and that of his large team of volunteers. It is a collaborative labour of love for all involved in its creation and is not owned by an individual; rather, it is a gift to the public by volunteers and the copyright is retained in his own name by the curator who began the project.

Perhaps I will look over the space race article but its length is forbidding. I imagine I would pick at it here and there, once in a while, rather than risk performing wholesale rewrites that might activate passionate objections. Time will tell. And the first thing I would do is rename the article to Space race and convert every instance of Space Race in the article to lower case because I am passionate about good English! --O'Dea (talk) 11:40, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I own a copy of the APSJ DVD-ROMS from Spacecraft Films, not implying ownership of NASA;) I agree the article is a bit bloated, and intend to par it down into separate articles, which have already begun to do. However, I have to take time away from Wikipedia to complete a contract with my actual job. I will likely write it out to about 200k, and then segement into about four or five articles, then summarize them into an article no more than 60K. I agree with you about the length of the Race, but it seems that 1975 is the Wikipedia Consensus because they feel ASTP was the final event in the race. Many scholarly books would agree. It's a Canadian-Americancentric view that it ended in 1969 apparently. Take care, and look forward to your edits and comments.Abebenjoe (talk) 13:09, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Photo

I found your photo insertion in the Central Bank's entry very funny but unfortunately as an Irish taxpayer my chuckle did'nt last long when reality came back to me. An image speaks a thousand words! Best wishesSkreen (talk) 21:18, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Glad you liked it. --O'Dea (talk) 04:48, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Moore Hall

Finally got some pictures taken at Moore Hall. I have loaded them all the same way but for some reason, the article currently is only showing the one of the house I took this afternoon. The site says there is some problem with some pictures and tells you not to remove them but hopefully the technical staff will have the hitch fixed shortly. Hope they do as when you click on the links shown the pictures do appear - they're just not on the article. I'll give it a day or two and see what happens unless you can see some error I've made or something? Hi Odea again. It seems most of the pictures have sorted themselves out. The one of the interior I don't understand. I have just reloaded it from Wikimedia Commons and still it needs to be clicked on before it loads. If you have a cure or any further knowledge, please apply it. Thanks. Comhar (talk) 07:38, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

The picture display problem appears to have been resolved except for the last picture with the caption "Inside Moore Hall" which will not display. I don't know why that is and I suggest you chase it up with some friendly Wiki-technician. I viewed that picture at its original Wikicommons page and it looks normal and uncorrupted in any way, so I don't know why it fails to show up at the Moore Hall page when you call it over, like the others. <shrug> Nice pictures, though. They brighten up the article. --O'Dea (talk) 08:10, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Mind you, as a little extra to getting these pictures. I took the trip down to Moore Hall on Sunday morning with just my camera and my dog. It is up a walk through old established forestry and pretty remote up there. No cars in car park so I assumed I was alone. Took some photos when I got up to house and went around the back of it into the gloom of forestry sunlit from far above. I was just about to photograph the servants passageway under the back of the house when, to my horror, out from behind an outbuilding at the rear of the house lurched a large middle aged man who appeared drunk. He made a beeline straight for me and I never did get that photo because I had to flee the scene down a different avenue back to the car park. He followed me all the way down but when he came to the car park he cut across through the forestry and headed back towards the house up the small pathway. We're lucky we have those photos cos' I won't be heading back there in a hurry unaccompanied. As I was forced to flee I turned and photographed him coming after me, a photo I've given to the Gardai in case someone else gets intimidated in the same area (unfortunately he tucked his face down to his chest as I took it, so positive recognition is not possible, but its better than nothing. Lovely place, unfortunate incident. Comhar (talk) 10:00, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Just a note before I reply: Don't forget to indent your talk with colons, one colon for every indentation you want to make in conversation (see source of this chat to see how it works). And don't forget to "sign" your talks with four tildes (~~~~) so your name and timestamp will be automatically appended when you save your entry. I have inserted colons and a signature retrospectively into your last contribution, above, to give it a standard indentation and timestamp.

As for your adventure by the lake, you were lucky you were quick on your feet and that the man's drunkenness may have slowed him down. It must have been frightening and I can imagine your heart thumping as you drove away. I hope your dog, even if normally docile, would develop teeth and a low snarl for the occasion if you were assaulted. You were lucky to make it out undamaged. I wonder how many others have faced actual danger in order to spruce up a web article? I'm glad you're okay. --O'Dea (talk) 10:39, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

My dog is what stopped me panicking. She's a large black labrador (who seems to have the knack in getting into many of my photos and appears many times on Wikipedia for that reason as below) and I was pretty sure that if he caught up and reached for me or anything, she would have thrown herself well and truly into any tussel. 86.42.17.57 (talk) 18:51, 31 August 2010 (UTC) (oh sorry, on someone else's computer and not signed in (Comhar)

The story continues: At Moorehall last Monday a man was seriously assaulted and is badly injured. Two men have been arrested and appeared at Westport District Court on 2nd Sept. They are currently locked up awaiting trial. Can't get any more info but have to give a fuller statement to Gardai tomorrow. They don't know where the photo is now that I gave them and want me to bring it again. Think I must have nine lives! Comhar (talk) 21:57, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

You would think a place like Lough Carra would be safe and civilized, but apparently not. I am curious to know if either of the men arrested is the one who chased you. It's all quite strange. The one thing that annoys me is how the coppers lost your picture. Bloody incompetents, losing evidence like that. --O'Dea (talk) 19:37, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm agreeing more and more - incompetents is right. they were to contact me re. taking a statement etc... - it's now 10th September - I'm still waiting! Maybe now they have lost my contact details as well - or don't they care? Little worthwhile for them nowadays unless its lying about sunbathing and torturing the folks of Kilcommon parish in North Mayo because they get extremely well paid many times over to do that. This country is gone to hell!!Comhar (talk) 16:54, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Possibly unfree File:St. Pius X school crest.jpg

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:St. Pius X school crest.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. --Eeekster (talk) 23:45, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

File:St. Pius X school crest.jpg was proposed for deletion, then deleted. Following discussion here and again here, the file was restored. --O'Dea (talk) 02:23, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Deletion nomination of Template:Mountains and hills of County Dublin/doc

blanked page

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Lists of places in Ireland

Hey. I notice you've recently been making navboxes and lists of townlands for each county. I've made a few navboxes myself and hope to make more whenever I get the time. You might find this list useful in that it shows what already exists and what else needs to be done. It would also be worth our while making sure the same layout is used on each article.
Keep up the good work. ~Asarlaí 00:24, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Malton image

The image is of what is now City Hall and was previously the Royal Exchange in Dublin, on Dame Street. It is 100% certain. The image is also displayed outside City Hall on their Malton Trail. It may look the like Theatre Royal you referred to, but it unambiguously Dublin City Hall. An original copy hangs in the chamber of Dáil Éireann in Leinster House, another of the buildings on the Malton Trail.

The building is pretty much the same as in the image, albeit the steps are now different as the Malton image steps collapsed in the 19th century, killing some people. Victorian steps in a different design replaced them. The Georgian buildings in the background no longer exist, having been replaced by a Victorian bank. FearÉIREANN\^(caint) 19:40, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

Ah! So it is. My vision was prejudiced by working with a woman from Newcastle a few years ago who kept an engraving of her home town by her desk. When I asked her why she had a picture of O'Connell Street (showing "the GPO and Nelson's Pillar", I thought) she told me it was Newcastle. The similarity was so strong that it felt uncanny, like finding out Dublin had a doppelganger in the English northeast. It took me a few days to get used to it and I kept going over to look at her picture. Finally I asked her to let me photocopy it and I took it home. --O'Dea (talk) 21:30, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Townlands

Hi. Can you red link/dab every of your lists like List of townlands in County Antrim. I be happy to stub the townlands of Ireland by county.Starzynka (talk) 21:56, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the offer but I have all the counties ready to go and I am uploading them right now. All the work is already done so no stubs are needed. Thank you. --O'Dea (talk) 22:04, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Spideog. You have new messages at Ww2censor's talk page.
Message added 23:10, 23 September 2010 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

'gypsy' or 'Gypsy'

Gypsy can be either a common noun (uncapitalised) or a proper noun (capitalised), depending on context. When referring to the Roma, or Romani people it is generally capitalised. RashersTierney (talk) 09:08, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

I consulted the unabridged, definitive Oxford Dictionary before making my edits and cited it in my edit summary. The OED head word is spelled uncapitalised: "gipsy, gypsy" and the first of the defintions says, "A member of a wandering race (by themselves called Romany). This naming of the race is thus defined in lower case. I have posted a screenshot online of the OED gypsy entry for you to see to confirm the validity of my uncapitalised citation (expires in seven days; click thumbnail to see full-size). --O'Dea (talk) 09:48, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Language usage changes over time. The entry you give dates from 1989 (and evidently, the definition dates from long before that), while that using capitalisation for the ethnic group is the 2010 on-line version. Even the term 'race' in this context is clearly from another age. RashersTierney (talk) 18:18, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Issue taken to Talk:Romani people. RashersTierney (talk) 17:33, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

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