User talk:Mvcg66b3r/Archives/2022/April
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WCCT
You recently edited this page to remove my updates to the ATSC 3.0 "channel" box. (I appreciate you adding the comma I missed in the text section!)
I characterized the programming for each station as "ATSC 3.0 broadcast of Main [CALL SIGN] programming / [NETWORK]" for each of the 5 stations being broadcast.
My position is that the ATSC 3.0 signal is not being broadcast somewhere else - making these the ATSC 3.0 broadcasts - not simulcasts.
Even if you don't agree with that, you also changed my listing for WCCT (which I had as: "ATSC 3.0 broadcast of Main WCCT-TV programming / The CW") to: "Main WCCT-TV programming / The CW." Based on your logic this is incorrect as well. You should have it read: "ATSC 3.0 simulcast of WCCT / The CW," because the "Main" (ATSC 1.0) broadcast of WCCT is now being hosted by WTIC-TV. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johnnyacid (talk • contribs) 15:25, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Sammi Brie: What's your take on this? Mvcg66b3r (talk) 15:28, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- Hi @Johnnyacid and @Mvcg66b3r, this is where things get straaaaange. I'd recommend you take a look at KJZZ-TV#Subchannels; if you like it, I will bring that formatting over. I'm not a fan of all those "ATSC 3.0 simulcast of..." in the box, though. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 17:08, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Sammi Brie The primary argument we were having was whether to use the word 'broadcast' or 'simulcast.' And then whether the programming of the station that the page refers to should also be described that way, or simply as "Main" programming. The page you referenced (KJZZ) had it listed the latter way. It does get confusing with the ATSC 3.0 Lighthouse model.
- Also just a quick question about terminology - Are all the XX.X channels "subchannels?" To me it seems like XX.1 is the "main" channel with XX.2, XX.3, etc. being the subchannels. Is this not how the they are referred to? Are they all called subchannels?Johnnyacid (talk) 17:55, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Sammi Brie I was also just thinking that a better solution may be to have a title over the box (like KJZZ) that says "Subchannels of WCCT-TV (ATSC 3.0)" and then have the "Programming" column items just read "Main W***" or "Primary W***" since the "ATSC 3.0" is taken care of in the title and "Programming" is taken care of in the column heading.Johnnyacid (talk) 18:06, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- The way we've written articles, even the .1 is a subchannel. Also, yes @Johnnyacid, every table needs a caption for accessibility purposes (MOS:TABLECAPTION). Let me give this a coat of paint and see what you think. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 18:12, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Sammi Brie I like the changes! The only comment/question I have is about Note 58. It was my attempt to have a reference source for the 'lighthouse' concept - so should it be up in the header after its first appearance?Johnnyacid (talk) 18:36, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- No, you generally shouldn't put a citation in a section header (though they can go in data tables). Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 18:49, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Sammi Brie I like the changes! The only comment/question I have is about Note 58. It was my attempt to have a reference source for the 'lighthouse' concept - so should it be up in the header after its first appearance?Johnnyacid (talk) 18:36, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
- The way we've written articles, even the .1 is a subchannel. Also, yes @Johnnyacid, every table needs a caption for accessibility purposes (MOS:TABLECAPTION). Let me give this a coat of paint and see what you think. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 18:12, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
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Numberguy6 (talk) 18:53, 6 April 2022 (UTC)Look at YouTube
Ok 2600:8803:5902:2B00:E512:E524:29BF:8324 (talk) 21:58, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Il9Ftm7KZfc&feature=youtu.be
- @2600:8803:5902:2B00:E512:E524:29BF:8324: That's just a segment on the noon news. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 22:09, 12 April 2022 (UTC)
KEYE TV
If you tune to 14.2 and 14.3 in Austin TX the displayed RF channel is from RF channel 34. It's a shame that my valid edits are removed that are correct. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2603:8080:1E03:1A48:B5C2:47B9:88E6:DF4B (talk) 21:32, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
- No mixing and matching; see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Television/Television_stations_task_force/Archive_10#Denoting_ATSC_1.0_simulcasts_in_infoboxes_and_subchannel_tables Mvcg66b3r (talk) 21:35, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
- So if I format it as the same thing as WMBQ-CD you won't delete it again? 2603:8080:1E03:1A48:B5C2:47B9:88E6:DF4B (talk) 21:49, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
- I'll look at it and make changes as needed. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
- Okay, it's my first edit on Wikipedia. Just wanted to help make things right! 24.55.25.74 (talk) 21:56, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
- I'll look at it and make changes as needed. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 21:51, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
- Just formatted this the right way. It's a bit convoluted to do correctly. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 23:56, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
- It's got the wrong subchannels. It's supposed to be 14.2 and 14.3. Not 14.1 and 14.2 2603:8080:1E03:1A48:B5C2:47B9:88E6:DF4B (talk) 01:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
- Fixed. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 01:45, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
- Oops, my bad. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 02:38, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
- It's got the wrong subchannels. It's supposed to be 14.2 and 14.3. Not 14.1 and 14.2 2603:8080:1E03:1A48:B5C2:47B9:88E6:DF4B (talk) 01:44, 18 April 2022 (UTC)
- So if I format it as the same thing as WMBQ-CD you won't delete it again? 2603:8080:1E03:1A48:B5C2:47B9:88E6:DF4B (talk) 21:49, 17 April 2022 (UTC)
templates
For TV templates, just list the stations like they would show up on people's TVs.
I get that some stations piggyback of other's spectrums and all that good stuff, but to mix and match subchannels on these templates just makes things a muddled mess.
When someone wants channel 11, they just press 11 on their clicker.
Vjmlhds (talk) 13:47, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- Basically, for the templates, just list the stations by their channel number like they would appear on people's TVs. I get channel 11 might have a couple of subchannels on channel 27's stick, but on Joe Blow's TV at home it would come up on display as 11.1, 11.2, 11.3, and 11.4. Don't put 11.3 and 11.4 under channel 27 even though they're getting a free ride on channel 27's antenna. Just keep it simple and basic - list the channels by the number they appear as on Joe's TV, and talk about the technical stuff on the station's article. Time and place for everything, no need to muddle the waters when they don't need to be. Vjmlhds (talk) 13:59, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Sammi Brie: Your take? Mvcg66b3r (talk) 14:23, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- In these templates, we list the stations by their virtual number - the number as it appears on people's TVs. In the majority of cases, the virtual number is different than the actual physical number (though once in a great while, a station will luck out and have both the same physical and virtual channel). For instance, in the analog days WXXX-TV in Fillintheblank West Virginia was on channel 11, but when they had to convert to digital, they set up shop on physical channel 2, but via PISP still appeared as the old familiar channel 11 that everybody knows and loves. Years later, WXXX converts to ATSC 3.0, and makes a deal with competitor WYYY channel 27, where XXX allows YYY to use their 3.0 spectrum in exchange for YYY allowing XXX and its subchannels to hitch a ride on their 1.0 spectrum. WYYY's physical channel is 4, but they map to 27 as that was their familiar channel number from the analog days. So that leaves both WXXX and WYYY using physical channel 4, but showing up on screen as 11.1 (and all their subchannels) and 27.1 (with assorted subchannels) respectively. On these templates, they would also appear separately as WXXX (11.1, etc.) and WYYY (27.1, etc.) as they are separately licensed stations, but made a deal to share technology. Both stations exist individually under their respective virtual numbers, which when you get down to it is what people identify them as. Long story short, we always went by virtual number in these templates for listing stations, so there's no need to upset the apple cart now, as the actual physical channel never mattered before, and shouldn't now. Vjmlhds (talk) 15:09, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- Please forgive me if I seem like I'm babbling on and on, but I'm just trying to make a point...taking the example of our mythical Fillintheblank West Virginia, let's say there are 6 full power stations. Even if all 6 stations were sharing the same spectrum, they would still get listed separately under their individual virtual channels, as they are all separately licensed stations doing their own thing - they just happen to share the same antenna/physical channel, thus it makes no sense to lump them all under one listing. Vjmlhds (talk) 15:56, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- In these templates, we list the stations by their virtual number - the number as it appears on people's TVs. In the majority of cases, the virtual number is different than the actual physical number (though once in a great while, a station will luck out and have both the same physical and virtual channel). For instance, in the analog days WXXX-TV in Fillintheblank West Virginia was on channel 11, but when they had to convert to digital, they set up shop on physical channel 2, but via PISP still appeared as the old familiar channel 11 that everybody knows and loves. Years later, WXXX converts to ATSC 3.0, and makes a deal with competitor WYYY channel 27, where XXX allows YYY to use their 3.0 spectrum in exchange for YYY allowing XXX and its subchannels to hitch a ride on their 1.0 spectrum. WYYY's physical channel is 4, but they map to 27 as that was their familiar channel number from the analog days. So that leaves both WXXX and WYYY using physical channel 4, but showing up on screen as 11.1 (and all their subchannels) and 27.1 (with assorted subchannels) respectively. On these templates, they would also appear separately as WXXX (11.1, etc.) and WYYY (27.1, etc.) as they are separately licensed stations, but made a deal to share technology. Both stations exist individually under their respective virtual numbers, which when you get down to it is what people identify them as. Long story short, we always went by virtual number in these templates for listing stations, so there's no need to upset the apple cart now, as the actual physical channel never mattered before, and shouldn't now. Vjmlhds (talk) 15:09, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- @Sammi Brie: Your take? Mvcg66b3r (talk) 14:23, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- Basically, for the templates, just list the stations by their channel number like they would appear on people's TVs. I get channel 11 might have a couple of subchannels on channel 27's stick, but on Joe Blow's TV at home it would come up on display as 11.1, 11.2, 11.3, and 11.4. Don't put 11.3 and 11.4 under channel 27 even though they're getting a free ride on channel 27's antenna. Just keep it simple and basic - list the channels by the number they appear as on Joe's TV, and talk about the technical stuff on the station's article. Time and place for everything, no need to muddle the waters when they don't need to be. Vjmlhds (talk) 13:59, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- When a channel is distributed in such a manner, we list it, ideally, in two places. I'm going to use KJZZ-TV as the example since it's an ATSC 3.0 outlet.
- We list all the subchannels provided by that station, along with their hosts, in one table in the article. So there's a 14.1, 14.2, 14.3, 14.4 table. This is where most people expect it to be.
- Then, we list (below a line, ideally) the subchannels that another station broadcasts on their behalf in that station's article. This is of use for people who have antenna problems and typically comes with some mention of ATSC 3.0 in the prose.
- I felt I had a good solution for how to handle this, and I still do. It is not 1995 or even 2015. TV transmission arrangements are more complicated, but we can represent them in a straightforward manner while not sacrificing precision. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 17:27, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- Sammi, if you're talking about something like you did for WVPX-TV on that particular article, that's fine and I have no issue with that. The discussion here dealt with templates such as {{SF TV}}, where if you look through the recent edit history, you'll see the difference in what Mvcg66b3r's and my philosophy is. For that type of template, my view is just to list things by virtual number like we always have, and save the technical details for the stations articles themselves (as I said like you did for WVPX...that's aces) Templates like the SF TV one are really just quick channel lists, and not the place for the mix and match stuff. Vjmlhds (talk) 18:31, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, we're talking about navboxes. In that case, I concur. For those navboxes, they should be listed with the license. Sammi Brie (she/her • t • c) 04:43, 21 April 2022 (UTC)
- Sammi, if you're talking about something like you did for WVPX-TV on that particular article, that's fine and I have no issue with that. The discussion here dealt with templates such as {{SF TV}}, where if you look through the recent edit history, you'll see the difference in what Mvcg66b3r's and my philosophy is. For that type of template, my view is just to list things by virtual number like we always have, and save the technical details for the stations articles themselves (as I said like you did for WVPX...that's aces) Templates like the SF TV one are really just quick channel lists, and not the place for the mix and match stuff. Vjmlhds (talk) 18:31, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
- For me when I edited for example KEYE-TV which has in Wikipedia that it transmits on UHF channel 34 I would expect the station listing to show all of the sub channels supplied under the call sign KEYE-TV. That's how the FCC defines these channels and their transmissions. I had my edits reverted.
- If you want to delete the KEYE and go with a generic Austin TV market channel listing that has no call sign associations for defining all of the sub channels in a given market, that's another idea.
- I cannot pick up the RF channel 27 for KBVO virtual channel 14 in this part of Austin TX. Yet there is 14.1, 14.2, 14.3, and 14.4. To add to the confusion 14.1 and 14.4 come from yet another RF channel 23 (KNVA) at least for my part of Austin. Those sub channels should really get added to KNVA.
- Anyway it was my 1st edit to Wikipedia. If you all want to be God's on this, that is fine. But somehow this stuff should be right somewhere! Have a great day! 2603:8080:1E03:1A48:94C2:394A:E525:F5EE (talk) 17:52, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
The ztv logo in the capital of LA is outdated
The logo dates back to 20122600:8803:5902:2B00:9979:3717:10A9:4C4E (talk) 01:33, 22 April 2022 (UTC) File:KZUP19.png
- Where's the link to the new logo? Mvcg66b3r (talk) 01:35, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
The TV https://www.brproud.com/tv-schedule/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8803:5902:2B00:9979:3717:10A9:4C4E (talk) 01:36, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
- It's the same one. Mvcg66b3r (talk) 01:41, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
Yes it is I saw a couple promos form 2022 or 1 using the logo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8803:5902:2B00:9979:3717:10A9:4C4E (talk) 01:45, 22 April 2022 (UTC)