User talk:TxMCJ
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Experts
[edit]Gnixon doesn't think experts "need to have their holy authority worshipped at every turn" |
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We were getting off-topic over there at Talk:Evolution. I'm not sure what your specific complaint is.
Surely non-experts can contribute to articles in some ways and experts don't need to have their holy authority worshipped at every turn?
If it's the creationist vandalism that you're thinking of, that's a separate issue, but I'm sure an encyclopedia article on Evolution can benefit from the input of creationists in order to properly address the social effects of evolution's ideas. As for language, again we have to remember that this is an encyclopedia, not a textbook. I've been trying to push for an explicitly technical version of the article, which an encyclopedia like Wikipedia has the luxury of providing through its virtually unlimited space. I hope you don't find it too personal for me to allude to your rollerderby and accordion interests that I came across during a quick Googling. Gnixon 22:53, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
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Tribalism
[edit]Graft and I find that we both have an evolutionary psychology B.S. button |
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Just disagreeing with your contention that our beliefs have always been "irrational, stupid", etc. I doubt this is historically true.
We haven't believed, for example, that keeping hot, burning coals in our trousers is a stupendous idea (by and large), or that we should stab our eyes out with sharp sticks as soon as we are able.
On the contrary, the beliefs you might label as "irrational" are most likely beliefs that you believe are dated - that is, a superior system of belief has since arisen that you feel should replace it, but hasn't yet. Unsurprising - even the most powerful selective sweep takes time (to run with your evolutionary analogies), and we shouldn't necessarily despise the stubborn, willful less fit variant for refusing to die instantly.
Furthermore, as with natural selection, it's not always clear that superior fitness comes at no cost - pleiotropic effects may be in play, especially for the sort of religious beliefs I think you're referring to. The resistance that comes to abandoning them perhaps occurs because they enable other sorts of social interaction that might be destroyed by their replacement. Atheists, for example, lack convincing social mechanisms for exhortation to moral behavior, something religion excels at. It's thus not necessarily clear that it's more "irrational" to be one as opposed to the other, all things considered. Graft 21:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
Consider this: working evolutionary biologists don't debate all these general concepts a *fraction* of the amount that the folks around here do. There is a lesson to be learned in that fact. And I won't get into this much here, but your whole attitude about Harvard is also a very common form of anti-elitism that many alumni have to struggle against their whole lives. Harvard has such a mythologial stigma attached to it that is inescapable, that most alumni do *not* wear their alma mater on their sleeve because of the anti-elitism they encounter their whole lives. In short: the public tends to judge Harvard alumni as elitist snobs MUCH more than those alumni actually hold themselves to be elite, or conduct themselves to be snobs. I'm no brandy-sipping, turtleneck wearing, Vivaldi-listening, trust fund kid. I'm a roller skater and a Texas cowgirl/punk rocker who got interested in Evolution and pursued a degree in it, and then came back to Texas. I will be the first to say that Harvard's biology program is not among the best in the nation, and having gone through their system is not necessarily something I'm proud of. Most aspects of those years were a royal pain in the neck. Yes, I had certain experiences, learned certain things, and met certain people that I value now, in retrospect, but I'll be the last person on Earth to say that Harvard is somehow "better" or "more elite" than other institutions, and it is not something I necessarily take a great deal of pride in. It mainly seems to be the *rest of the world* that can't shake the ominous Harvard mythology, and so alumni have to battle that attitude most of their lives, and constantly defend themselves. It's not much fun. My alma mater is something I put on my resume because I have to, but not something I actively advertise. Sorry again if I've made you feel "unworthy of debate", but like I said, my objection has more to do with the fact that some activities (like writing encyclopedia articles, perhaps?) are just not helped or enhanced much by debate between too many people. Thanks, and sorry again. TxMCJ 15:09, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
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Credentials, Schmedentials
[edit]What's more important, credentials or quality edits? |
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Welcome to Wikipedia!
[edit]In the words of Lee Marvin in Paint your Wagon: "Welcome to Hell parson". Seems that way around this Wiki at times-gnashing of teeth, etc. Actually it can be lots of fun (some funny stuff goes around) and there are lots of knowlegeable people who float in and out. For some idiotic reason there are lots of people who really believe that this can be a gold standard in Wiki's and encyclopedias (I wax and wane on that subject). I think it is all still evolving but I like the whole idea. Mechanically it still seems to need some work (maybe a hard copy that can only be changed by committee or something of that sort-some method to the madness). I would like to encourage you to continue editing evolution related articles, but be prepared for some resistance (just offer up some literature and justification). Some editors have encouraged me to stay after utter frustration with this process, so I pass it on. I tend to try and maintain a civil and courteous tone, although I can be vulgar at times (dirty ole man!). I think the medium often leads to miscommunication and tempers flare (much as the conversation above I gather). I was also encouraged to pursue other articles of general interest to lighten things up. Good luck and have fun!! GetAgrippa 16:56, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
- I understand that you have felt some frustration on Wikipedia. I appreciate that, and have felt the same sort of things often. I have countered it by editing things in which I am not an expert; it is too painful to edit articles in areas in which I am an expert and have to deal with assorted morons and dufuses (dufi?). I also am a past resident of Cambridge (and a few other enclaves of academia). I am the first to admit that I know zero about biology, being a dyed-in-the-wool mathematical physicist. However, I am quite interested in making biology articles accessible to those of us who number among the great unwashed, and at least trying to slow down the creationists a bit if not negate some of their influence. I admire your bravery in choosing your name and understand your interests in switching; I make sure that I leave very little trails on the internet if I can help it. Do not give up hope; it can be a rewarding experience to contribute here. Please stay and help some more. You are more than welcome and we need more people like you here.--Filll 21:38, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
A little something for you
[edit]The Original Barnstar | ||
Thanks for all your contributions and keep up the good work! Filll 21:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC) |
Hahaha, yaaay! I feel like a girl scout now having just earned a badge... TxMCJ 21:43, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
orangemarlin is no troll
[edit]It was I who called OM a troll. To be fair to OM, I should have said that his./her behavior on the talk page was trollish. In context, it was clear I was remarking on a specific argument between OM and GN and in that discussion OM was indeed being incredibly obstreperous and unconstructive. Slrubenstein | Talk 10:53, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Sincere Apologies in Advance, re: Gnixon
[edit]- I encourage anyone else interested in this topic to peruse the talk pages of Orangemarlin, Gnixon, Enormousdude, and the administrator FeloniousMonk, to see how Gnixon's (often POV-centered) editing without expertise has been maddening to editors of the Physics and Relativity articles as well. Not trying to witch-hunt, just trying to shed light on a pattern. TxMCJ 01:50, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
(Originally posted to Evolution:talk, then censored) |
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I recently reviewed the Evolution article contributions of another editor (Orangemarlin) who recently left here in total and utter exasperation with the incessant head-butting that occurs with Gnixon. Objectively, upon review, I generally found Orangemarlin's history of contributions to the Evolution article to be mostly high quality, on-topic, frequent, and helpful. He seems to work primarily on *the article*. On his talk page, (and I'm *really and sincerely sorry* to be doing this, I know it’s awful and possibly immoral, but in the interests of academic progress I feel that I must); Orangemarlin recently posted about Gnixon: “Hopefully, others will stand up to his POV pushing and ranting, and his subtle ownership of every article”, and also posted to Gnixon directly: “I cannot continue editing your articles. But I know what you're doing, and others will too. There are cooler headed individuals who will stand up to you. I don't have that kind of patience with an individual such as yourself, obviously intelligent, but with an agenda that is blind to what others believe. You are arrogant, loud and obtrusive--assuming good faith, maybe you think that's the way to force whatever belief set you have onto these articles” My goal here is not to point fingers or mud-sling. But at great risk of lighting a fuse to a huge bomb now, I am hereby volunteering to be one of those “others” Orangemarlin called for, to stand up to the abovementioned ranting and subtle ownership. Contrary to what Gnixon would have you believe, Orangemarlin is not a troll. Look at his contributions to this article. I do not “side” with Orangemarlin for any reason other than the fact that he has contributed meaningful scientific content to this article, and belongs here (like I do) more than people who do not contribute scientific content. If I get my head cut off for posting this little diatribe, fine, but Gnixon’s involvement has apparently always been in *both* the Evolution and the ID articles (and interests?), which is a bit peculiar given the fact that he contributes precious little to the content of the Evolution article. Gnixon, forgive me. But in the interest of academic progress, and by the indirect request from Orangemarlin who has contributed more to this article than many other editors have: I respectfully request that you back down significantly on your participation here. This is a *scientific article* and if you do not have scientific content to contribute, you will only continue to exasperate and infuriate hardworking contributors like myself and Orangemarlin. Thank you for the "facilitation" you do, but if you are not contributing meaningfully, it unfortunately becomes one-step-forward, two-steps-back. Forgive me for doing this, but “the call was put out there” and I just felt that I had to answer it. My intention is not to insult you, humiliate you, offend you, anger you, or provide a personal attack. My only intention is to help this high-profile scientific article develop and improve for the millions of people around the world who may read it, and I strongly second the already-strongly-voiced opinion that you are an obstacle to that end. To the others: thank you for listening and I hope you will trust in my sincerity and good faith, no matter how arrogant or elitist you may personally feel that I am. TxMCJ 03:45, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
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Request: Evo-Devo
[edit]Would you look at the article on evo-devo (it has its own article) and see whether you can improve it? I happen to think it is an important trend in evolutionary research, but I am far from an expert. Very few people have worked on this particular article and I think it could use the input of more knowledgable editors. Needless to say, a well-developed evo-devo article linked to the main evolution article is a good thing! Slrubenstein | Talk 10:10, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks for asking! I'd love to (and I will), but I have to remain vigilant over here as well... I'll check it out later in the day, and thanks again! TxMCJ 10:12, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
FYI
[edit]Gnixon tries to have me blocked -- I say "game on" |
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(copied from my talk page)
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From FeloniousMonk, re: Administrative request
[edit](Crossposted from the admin board)
I see no evidence of either harassment or wikistalking here. What I do see is one user, Gnixon, who's been an aggressive and overly assertive editor on a number of topics and all too quick to accuse others and be incivil himself, making allegations that appear to be exaggerated against an editor he appears to be in a simple content dispute with. If Gnixon is genuinely so unaware that he considers the behavior he's described to be harassment and wikistalking, then my advice to him is to become more familiar with the terms and grow a thicker skin (being unwilling to get as good as he gives). But if he thinks he can use this venue find clueless admins to waylay opponents in simple content disputes, then he may find himself hoisted by his own petard and the community's goodwill rapidly diminishing for any future claims he may bring here. FeloniousMonk 05:39, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks. Sorry for the hassle. TxMCJ 07:25, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
Followup from a second editor after Gnixon rejects FeloniousMonk as a non-neutral party |
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Some advice
[edit]Support and Advice from other Evolution editors |
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Gnixon has shown himself to be uncivil on a number of occasions. His personality type is to ignore his own issues, and transfer those issues to others. I fed him for awhile, but I just stopped. You should do the same, and focus on improving the article. I took a one-week break from editing these articles, so I could wait until other editors joined in. Many of those editors are admins who have little tolerance for bad behavior. FM has reprimanded me when I took a bad faith creationist to task, although, in the end, we discovered he was a sockpuppet, so I was right!!!! Just kidding. Anyways, relax. Don't feed bad behavior with your own bad behavior. I'd ignore him, trusting the fact that several admins have now taking note of his behavior. His latest ANI against you probably showed him in very bad light, but it doesn't exactly make you out to be an innocent party. You are a high-quality editor, someone we need on the Evolution article. Your credentials (at least as far as I can tell) are exemplary, and you have improved the article more than Gnixon will ever. Focus on that. Ignore Gnixon. Move on. Orangemarlin 18:26, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
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Where are you?
[edit]We miss you over at the Evolution article. Certain users have decided to move their POV pushing onto other articles. Orangemarlin 21:13, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks OM. The Gnixon thing exhausted me and I had to take a bit of a break. I've been busy finishing up teaching this semester (and traveling a bit), but I'm around and I do watch the page... things seem comparatively healthy on the article talk page right now, and for the most part I think everyone is doing a great job of holding down the fort. But lately I'm starting to worry more and more about possible futures of Evolution education in this country... I am mainly horrified and concerned that three of the candidates in the recent Republican debate raised their hands when asked: "who does not believe in Evolution?" There should be a constitutional amendment making people who reject science ineligible for public office... TxMCJ 05:53, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
- Not that I'd ever vote for a Republican in an election, but which three raised their hands? Orangemarlin 15:24, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
- Never mind. It's on YouTube if you want to know [1]. Well, Guiliani, McCain and Romney did not raise their hands. Of course, they all screwed up the Abortion question. BTW, welcome back. Gnixon is off messing up Big Bang; however, I don't pretend to be a physicist (as opposed to certain other editors, who think they can edit a Big Bang article). Tim Vickers has done an excellent job in cleaning up the article from the mess created by Gnixon. Orangemarlin 15:30, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
- Thanks, it's getting in pretty good shape. I've put it up for peer-review and invited comments from several outside experts, such as Steve Jones, PZ Myers and Mick Eldredge. Hopefully, once we've ran through all the suggestions it should be in good shape to go through the FA process. All the best. TimVickers 00:35, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
- I found your phylogeny image. :) TimVickers 00:53, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
Peer-review
[edit]Hi there, I've tried to address your comments on the talk page, if you had any other suggestions, the peer-review page is here. Thanks. TimVickers 22:09, 31 May 2007 (UTC)
- I've decided to be bold and submit as a FAC. TimVickers 01:57, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
- I haven't seen you around TxMCJ, but you deserve partial credit for this work. Remember battling GNixon? LOL, we cleaned up his mess!!!!! Orangemarlin 02:02, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Re: Texas Rollergirls article, please restore, pretty please?
[edit]Re: Texas Rollergirls article deletion. Hello, I think your speedy deletion was unreasonable, as I have been working on the article for less than twenty minutes!!! I fully intend to insert references, but you make it very difficult to do so by inserting speedy deletion tags and deleting the article before I even get a chance to finish it. I am not a very fast, skillful, or fluent wikipedia editor, but I do understand the principles. Please don't make the editing experience a race against a speedy-deletion editor. It would be reasonable and fair if you would give me time to insert the required references. The topic is noteworthy and the tone of the article is not promotional or self-aggrandizing in the least. Thank you.TxMCJ (talk) 16:01, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
- Please work on incomplete articles in a user subpage rather than the article namespace. Would you like me to restore the article to a subpage for you? Stifle (talk) 16:04, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, please! Thank youTxMCJ (talk) 16:08, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
- OK, moved to User:TxMCJ/Texas Rollergirls. Stifle (talk) 16:10, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
- Yes, please! Thank youTxMCJ (talk) 16:08, 21 April 2008 (UTC)
Evolution
[edit]Hello TxMCJ, I really appreciated the ball you got rolling in Evolution months ago. The Wiki process just drives me insane, and I appreciate your methodical approach and logic. The Evolution article itself could be used to model evolution-hee,hee. I haven't noted your comments of late and I was concerned you gave up or were just too busy. While many excellent biological scientists have contributed to this article, I really, really, really liked having a card carrying evolutionary biologist to give credence to the article. I realize it is just an encyclopedia article but I had hopes that this venue could be so much more. Everyone has seemed to read a few books on the topic and become an expert-LOL. This article has rehashed so many subjects and reinvented the wheel too many times. I hope you continue to visit and give guidance given an expertise. So you are a rollerderby gal-if only I were a few decades younger-a woman after my own heart. hee,hee,hee. Regards GetAgrippa (talk) 02:52, 19 June 2008 (UTC)