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WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - July 2019

Delivered July 2019 by MediaWiki message delivery.
If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an N to the column against your username on the Project Mainpage.

23:08, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Backup

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Backup. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

ISO 9000

The only reason I still watch that page is that it's a common magnet for SEO spam, quite useful as a honeypot. Thanks for your revert there, —PaleoNeonate – 21:02, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

​Yeah - looking at the history, it seems to attract quite a lot of that sort of thing. Think I'll watchlist it too ;)

Having said that, since I started doing CVU stuff, my watchlist has grown to an unwieldy 15,000 pages; it's not as useful as it used to be in the good old days when I just watched pages I give a damn about! It's basically like a somewhat filtered version of recent changes nowadays. There was a proposal on meta (here) to allow temporary watchlisting, so you could keep an eye on a page for a week or so after doing a revert, but I'm not sure whether it's going anywhere :( GirthSummit _(blether) 21:31, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, mine is about 5k page/talk pairs and I regularly have to shorten it, —PaleoNeonate – 21:34, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Hello

Should you ever encounter any form of harassment on the English Wikipedia, feel free to contact me for help. I have been working on this issue for twelve years, and am the person ;who coined the term "hounding". Jehochman ^Talk 00:44, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

​Hi, and thanks for the message. I am (or think I am) keenly aware of the negative effects that harassment can cause, and if there is anything that I've said or done in that area that you think is deficient in any way, I would genuinely welcome specific feedback as I do care about this, and want to get it right.

I actually have been peripherally involved in what I believe to he a very serious harassment situation recently. A former CVUA student of mine has been the target of multiple, and apparently credible, threats of physical violence as a result of their counter vandalism work - there's a loooong back story, and the WMF Emergencies team are looking into it, but the key points were outlined on Drmies's talk page - (this was the last edit to the thread, I think). The editor in question has been off-wiki for about a month as a result of the harassment - I've been in semi-regular e-mail contact with them, this evening they told me that Emergencies recently updated them to say that they were still investigating. If there's anything you can suggest, beyond been done already, I'm sure they would be grateful! Thanks GirthSummit _(blether) 01:18, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

In real life I am an expert witness. I work for law firms, tech companies and the US government to investigate malfeasance on the Internet. If they want help, they could contact me and I would donate a chunk of my time. Last year I donated about $20k worth of services to help a woman developer who was targeted by severe online harassment. Jehochman ^Talk 02:02, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi again Jehochman - sorry I didn't respond sooner, but that's a very kind offer. I'll drop them an e-mail to inform them of this discussion - would you be happy for them to e-mail you if they would like to request assistance? (They're staying off-wiki for the moment.) Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 21:28, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi again Jehochman - I spoke to my colleague by e-mail, and he would be quite keen to talk to you about the issues at some point - can you confirm that you would be happy for him to e-mail you using the link on your userpage? Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 07:40, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Yes, that’s fine. Jehochman ^Talk 09:45, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Cullen Old Church

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Cullen Old Church you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of J Milburn -- J Milburn (talk) 10:21, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Need help

Hello sir I need to talk to you MDPMHG (talk) 07:36, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

MDPMHG Go ahead - how can I help? Is this about the issue you mentioned at the teahouse? I'm about to go offline for a few hours (walk the dog, work stuff), but if you explain what the problem is I'll look into it as soon as I can. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 07:38, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

An IP user reverted my edit that I don't mind really. Wikipedia welcome everyone. The thing which matter is. The IP user is referring me to the User:AR.Dmg. Whom I don't know really. Nor I'm a sock. I'm a undergraduate student of BCA. Admin cyphoid told me to declare my WP: paid I don't actually work. I'm studying. I like movies, series, games, music and contributing is my hobby. What to do to prove my authenticity sir. Please help me. MDPMHG (talk) 07:40, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

MDPMHG Having seen the conversation on your talk page, I don't think there's much advice I can offer you that the various admins commenting haven't already said. The only additional thing I'd add is that people don't much like having their time wasted. I might have spent quite a bit of time investigating this, only for you to admit later that you are in fact socking, and the IP's accusation was accurate. I expect you'd have a better experience here, and win more respect from people, if you were honest with them. GirthSummit _(blether) 16:11, 6 July 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Electronic cigarette

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Electronic cigarette. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 7 July 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Cullen Old Church

The article Cullen Old Church you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Cullen Old Church for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of J Milburn -- J Milburn (talk) 20:02, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks J Milburn - I really appreciate all the pointers you gave me for improving this article, you were very supportive throughout. Cheers! GirthSummit _(blether) 20:04, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Girth Summit, congrats! Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 20:06, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Barkeep49 - it was you who put the idea in my head a while back about investigating good articles - glad I followed your advice! GirthSummit _(blether) 20:07, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Closing cases at ANI

Hello, Girth Summit,

While non-admins are permitted to close cases at ANI, I'd appreciate it if you could include {{nac}} when you archive a case, somewhere in your closing summary, perhaps after your signature. Otherwise, it gives many editors who've brought the case the impression that their complaint has been closed with no action by an admin. You'll see that most other non-admins who close or archive cases include it. Thank you. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 04:37, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi Liz, sorry for the omission, and thanks for the tip. I once had my time wasted trying to help a sock of Nsmutte who was asking pointless circular questions - I thought it better to close that thread quickly once the sock had been identified, in case others spent time offering explanations. However, I can see that I should have been a bit less hasty and actually checked how to close it more carefully. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 05:31, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Your thread has been archived

Hi Girth Summit! You created a thread called Problem with a map at Wikipedia:Teahouse, but it has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days. You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please create a new thread. Archival by Lowercase sigmabot III, notification delivery by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} (ban this bot) or {{nobots}} (ban all bots) on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:00, 9 July 2019 (UTC)

Page deletion

Hi. I see that you have deleted our page. I wanted to know why my page was deleted and what I can do to get it back. I structured the page similarly to 'Toscotec' which is a business similar to the page I created. Thank you in advance! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Paperdudes2019 (talk • contribs) 06:56, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi Paperdudes2019, I nominated your page for deletion, but it was Fastily who deleted it, under the U5 speedy deletion criteria, so you'd need to speak to them if you want to recover your text. Please see our user page policy however - I can't think of a valid reason for a user page to feature a description of a company, beyond perhaps a brief note about what you do professionally. GirthSummit _(blether) 08:12, 10 July 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Electric smoking system

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Electric smoking system. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Page Content Deletion

Hi Girth Summit, I see you have deleted the content that I added to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedanta_Society_Of_Southern_California,_Ramakrishna_Monastery. Wanted to check the reason for the same and if I can pull it back by providing more references like: https://patch.com/california/missionviejo/the-ramakrishna-monastery-a-meditative-retreat-in-orange-county and https://dissenttheblog.blogspot.com/2008/12/ramakrishna-monastery-aldous-huxley-in.html Please let me know and I can bring the original page up with the new refs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vinitp2004 (talk • contribs) 23:21, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi Vinitp2004, thanks for reaching out. I removed the material because it was not cited to a reliable, secondary source (indeed, it was not referenced at all). Looking at your sources above, straight off the bat, I'd say that your second source is a blog, and so inherently unreliable; your first source may pass muster, I haven't checked yet. You can confirm that yourself by weighing it against the requirements at RS. As an aside, it seems from what you've said so far that you have some sort of connection to the subject of the article - you should read WP:COI and WP:PAID, assess whether they apply to you, and take the necessary steps. Best GirthSummit _(blether) 23:55, 11 July 2019 (UTC)

Please restore Singularitarian Technologies Corporation

I do not think my page qualifies for speedy deletion and should be reviewed by a human to see if it violates the G11 article rules. JohnLasheras (talk) 14:25, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi JohnLasheras - your draft was reviewed by two humans, myself and the administrator RHaworth. I believed that I met the G11 criteria, which is why I nominated it for speedy deletion; RHaworth apparently agreed with me because he deleted it - if you want to argue your case you need to take it up with him, I am not an administrator and so can no longer see the page now that it has been deleted. A better approach might be to start from scratch and write a draft that does not contain any promotional prose, and limit what you say to content that can be supported by reliable, secondary sources that are independent of the subject, as outlined at WP:CORPDEPTH. I would be happy to review such a draft and let you know if I think it would pass muster as an article, if you like. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 15:26, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Infobox

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Infobox. Legobot (talk) 04:26, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Bitcoin Cash

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Bitcoin Cash. Legobot (talk) 04:27, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your review

Hi Girth Summit,

Great to meet you. Thanks for reviewing my article Jonathan Harris (chartered surveyor) so quickly and for the useful feedback. I'll work to improve the page!

Krstan (talk) 16:51, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

No problem Krstan. I remember reviewing it - basically, my thoughts were that if the subject is in Who's Who, and was president of the RICS, then he is undoubtable notable and we should have an article about him; I was a bit concerned, however, that some of the material is sourced to his own website - see WP:SPS, ideally that information should be sourced to secondary sources - for example, the 'Careers Research & Advisory Centre' award, if the only source we can find for this is his own personal website then it's probably not sufficiently significant to include in the article. Hope that makes sense, cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 17:17, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

Speedy Deletion?

[1] While searching through some users who edited in the sandbox, I came across this user page and wanted to know if this falls in the G11 criteria... (If it does, I will tag it immediately.) James-the-Charizard (talk) 03:34, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

James-the-Charizard, Yes, it looks like a likely candidate to me - it's basically written like an advert. Would you like to nominate it, or would you like me to do it? GirthSummit _(blether) 05:28, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

​To be specific, this should be tagged with G11 'promotional user page under a promotional username'. The page will be deleted, and the user will likely be blocked for promo. GirthSummit _(blether) 11:37, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

​I see that you reported - the page has been deleted, and the user blocked - nice catch! Just for next time (and this is nit a criticism, I just want to save you time!), there's no need to G11 and report at UAA - the investigating admin will block the account when they delete the page if they agree that the username is problematic. If you see an obvious advert in user space, just G11 it; if the username is problematic, but their edits are to an existing mainspace article, or they're writing a draft about their company but it's not blatantly advertising, that's when to use UAA. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 23:59, 21 July 2019 (UTC)

@Girth Summit: thanks for that one, sorry about forgetting to reply back. ^v^' James-the-Charizard (talk) 00:37, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Supernova

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Supernova. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

New DEXPI article

Dear Girth,

I talked to several people in the meantime and so have been able to add more references concerning DEXPI. Please review the article again and kindly approve it. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AxWaCov (talk • contribs) 09:36, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

AxWaCov (talk) 09:38, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi AxWaCov - I'm going to leave this for another reviewer to look at, since I'm already somewhat involved in having made the original decline, but I've taken a look and will give you some points to that might help you make further improvements.

• First and foremost, I'd say that I come away not really sure what the article is about. The first sentence says that DEXPI is an initiative - that's a bit vague. Is it an organisation? The history says that it was founded in 2011 and gives a few companies that were involved in that - is it a project managed by those companies, or is it now an independent organisation? Are those still companies still in charge? I think this needs clarifying to help the reader understand what it is we're talking about.
• Your references are not in-line citations. That isn't a strict requirements, but it makes it a lot easier for reviewers to check your content matches up with your sources. I'd recommend using in-line citations, using the 'Cite' tool above the editing window.
• You have an external link in the body of the text, linking to Github. That needs to be removed. It could potentially be moved to the 'External Links' section, but definitely shouldn't remain in the body of the text.
• When trying to determine notability, we look for secondary, reliable, independent refs (as described at WP:NORG. I would automatically disregard anything published by the organisation itself, so that excludes numbers 4, 5 and 6 which are all cites to the DEXPI website. Number 1 is hosted on Wordpress which implies that it's a blog, so I have also disregarded it (see WP:RS). That leaves 2, 3 and 7.

• Number 2 only appears to mention DEXPI once, in passing - that doesn't seem to qualify as 'significant' coverage.
• Number 3 is better - if has a section describing DEXPI, which would probably qualify as significant coverage. I'm not familiar with the publication, or with the author. If you can confirm that this is a reliable source with a reputation for fact-checking, and that the author is not connected to DEXPI in any way, then this is probably a good source.
• I don't have access to number 7, so I can't comment on that.

• So, If you're confident about numbers 3 and 7 then the notability would probably be established, but it might take a specialist to access number 7. If I were you, I'd attempt to find some more independent, secondary reliable sources that give coverage to the subject, to make the notability more obvious.
• Finally, I just want to draw your attention to our guidelines at WP:COI - I'm not accusing you of anything here, but if you have any connection to the subject you need to be aware of these.

Hope that's helpful. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 11:08, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Ceredigion Historical Society

Hi, No problem at all! Regards finding independent citations, well not as easy as I would have thought. What I have found may be of use: The Transactions and archaeological record were published from 1911 to 1938; it was an English-language academic journal containing articles on historical and archaeological topics. https://journals.library.wales/browse/1177372

In 1951 Ceredigion: Journal of the Cardiganshire Antiquarian Association started. In 2002 it was renamed Ceredigion: Journal of Ceredigion Historical Society. It contains historical articles and book reviews. It includes society notes. It is mostly in English but there is some Welsh-language content. It was published between 1951 and 2002. https://journals.library.wales/browse/1093205

The last public lecture delivered by Geraint Gruffydd was at the annual general meeting of the Ceredigion Historical Society in April 2008, and it was on ‘Dafydd ap Gwilym and his patrons in Ceredigion’. https://www.thebritishacademy.ac.uk/sites/default/files/13-Gruffydd.pdf

Collaboration with Other Institutions Meetings and seminars were held at the Centre during the year by the Ceredigion Historical Society, Seminar Cyfraith Hywel, the Cambrian Archaeological Society, and the National Library of Wales. https://cymru.ac.uk/Resources/Documents/Centre/2017/AdBlyn2015-16.pdf

Charles.rcahmw (talk) 15:23, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi Charles - thanks for digging those out. I'm about the log off, but those sources look pretty good, I'll have a look at adding them to the article shortly. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 16:55, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Post-classical history

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Post-classical history. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

SocioViz

Hi and thank you for your notes regarding SocioViz page I've just created. I've read the WP:COI guidlines. In particular I'm one of the beta users that helps and adviced the team to implement the platform. I use socioviz and other similar tools for social research in university during seminars to students. Alezonin (talk) 09:23, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi Alezonin - thanks for replying so frankly. I think that you clearly have a COI with regards to this subject, so my advice to you would be to put the necessary disclosure statement on your userpage, and not to make any further direct edits to the article. I haven't read through all the sources carefully yet, but I suspect that the subject is probably notable - we may just need to make a few tweaks to make it come across more neutrally, less like it's promoting the subject.

I'm travelling at the moment, but will try to get onto it in the next couple of days if nobody else deals with it first.

Regards

Deletion of Tim Tech Consults

Hello I kindly request you to help to solve the issues that may lead to the deletion of the above mentioned page. I am currently facing the problem of having my articles deleted. This waters down my efforts as an editor. Waiting for your parental assistance. Warm regards Agaba Perez (talk) 13:40, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Agaba Perez, hi - the problem with this particular article is that it is about a company, but the available sources don't show that it is notable. Before starting to write an article, you should start by collecting all available published sources, and asking yourself whether the subject is notable. If it's not, it will likely be deleted. The notability guidelines for companies are particularly stringent, so they're a tricky thing to start out writing about - you need to make sure that you have multiple independent secondary sources giving them significant coverage - press releases (or short articles written around a press release), or announcements about a particular deal won't do I'm afraid. I hope that's helpful - take a look at the WP:TUTORIAL for more useful tips. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 16:09, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Your thread has been archived

Hi Girth Summit! You created a thread called Canvassing at AfD at Wikipedia:Teahouse, but it has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days. You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please create a new thread. Archival by Lowercase sigmabot III, notification delivery by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} (ban this bot) or {{nobots}} (ban all bots) on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:02, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Urolagnia

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Urolagnia. Legobot (talk) 04:26, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

30 July 2019

Please comment on Talk:Neolithic Subpluvial

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Neolithic Subpluvial. Legobot (talk) 04:26, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Leni Wylliams

Thanks for your previous suggestions! Though I haven't broken my LENI WYLLIAMS article into sections, I have made considerable adjustments. Would much appreciate your taking a look and providing any further input. Thanks again!

Paynethymaya (talk) 00:16, 31 July 2019 (UTC)Paynethymaya

Hi Paynethymaya - I can see you've added wikilinks for people and institutions that we have articles on - that's good. You've gone a bit too far however, including external links to other websites for some people. We don't do that - if there isn't an article here, don't add an external link (but you might consider writing an article about them that you can link to!). I was a bit confused by some of the links actually - for example, with Donald Byrd, you linked to an encyclopedia.com page, but we have an article about him - why not link to ours?

Another point I'd make is that there are too many quotes praising Wylliams' work. You don't need to tell us at the end of each paragraph what critics thought of him - I'd honestly advise you to remove all of that commentary from the main section of the article, and add a 'critical reception' section at the end that gives just two, or at most three, pieces of commentary - probably from the most significant critics or commentators. You also need to lose descriptions of him like 'master teacher' - it's still a WP:PEACOCK phrase. Try to stay totally neutral and dispassionate - just say 'Wylliams taught dance in Russian, East Germany, Asia and the United States.' Keep it factual.

One last point - while Wylliams' murder was of course an unutterable tragedy, we can't call it that. Again, we need to stay neutral and factual - we would simply say 'Wylliams was murdered in September 1996'. Part of trying to write an encyclopedic article is to stay away from telling the reader how they should feel about something - even when it is truly dreadful. For an extreme example, take a look at our article on the Holocaust - all the information is there, but nowhere do we actually say that it was a tragedy, or even a bad thing - we just present the facts.

I'd be happy to do some work on the article myself, if you like. I'll tell you now that I'd cut away most of the praise and the minor details, which will probably reduce the length of the article significantly, but that will probably happen quite quickly anyway if we were to publish this as it currently is. Let me know if you'd like me to do that, or if you'd prefer to continue working on it yourself. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 18:07, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - August 2019

Delivered August 2019 by MediaWiki message delivery.
If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an N to the column against your username on the Project Mainpage.

01:43, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Are these problematic?

[2] I'm not sure if these count as problematic edits... (I had reverted an IP who made the same edits on the ground as unsourced.) James-the-Charizard (talk) 13:48, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

​Yes - problematic on a couple of grounds. First they were using his own website as a source of information about him - it's a self-published source, so not reliable. Also, the text was directly copied and pasted across, along with the images - that's a copyright violation. I've reverted, and requested a copyvio revdel. Nice catch. GirthSummit _(blether) 17:20, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Thank you. Also I don't know if you were ever pinged, but I finished the last two parts on that CVUA. James-the-Charizard (talk) 17:32, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Ah - no, I didn't get a ping, I'll go and take a look at them now... GirthSummit _(blether) 17:33, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately I mistakenly forgot to sign my post when I commented that I was finished... I take the blame on that one. >n< James-the-Charizard (talk) 17:35, 2 August 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Rheumatoid arthritis

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Rheumatoid arthritis. Legobot (talk) 04:27, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Editing

The non-NPOV was pointed out to me, I had the time to check over a portion of the article and edited to better conform. If you have a problem with it not leaning toward your own personal bias that's on you. Believe me, the article still leans pretty heavy away from mine. I've done my three. I'll be back to see what kind of hate is continued to spew at me again for showing facts not feelings.

I genuinely have no idea what you mean in most of this. I'm not sure what bias you think I have, but the simple fact is that if you edit a page, and are reverted, you are expected to discuss the changes on the relevant talk page and seek consensus, rather than attempt to reinstate your change. GirthSummit _(blether) 06:37, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Coxton Tower

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Coxton Tower you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Gog the Mild -- Gog the Mild (talk) 13:22, 3 August 2019 (UTC)

For improving Wikipedia

		The Good Article Barnstar
		By the authority vested in me by myself it gives me great pleasure to present you with this barnstar in recognition of your classy Good Article Coxton Tower. More please. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:20, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Coxton Tower

The article Coxton Tower you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Coxton Tower for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Gog the Mild -- Gog the Mild (talk) 18:21, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

​Great! Thank you very much indeed for your responsiveness and helpful advice throughout - really appreciate it, I'll be sure to remember the tips you've taught me. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 18:24, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

You are most welcome. Gog the Mild (talk) 18:25, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

MacGibbon & Ross

Yes, it is a useful resource. Vol 3 is available online. Papamac (talk) 17:36, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

we are messengers

Hi Girth, appreciate you looking out for the accuracy of the we are messengers band wikipedia page. I understand the concerns around conflict of interest but simply want a professional band shot in that top image section, I really dont like the image that is currently there. Can you please update it with this one or at least allow me to do so. This is our current approved band image.

Hi Darrenjames79, thanks for reaching out. I don't have a problem in principal with replacing the image, since the one you have uploaded is indeed better. I have a slight problem however in that I can't know for certain that you are who you say you are, and thus that you genuinely are the copyright holder of the image, which has obviously been taken professionally. I'm sorry for being so cautious, but you'll understand that anyone could claim to be yourself, and present themselves as the owner of an image they'd copied from your website. We need to be careful about hosting such images. What I'm going to do therefore is tag that image as 'No permission' - you should receive a notification, and you will have the opportunity to e-mail your credentials to a team of volunteers, who will verify that you are indeed who you say you are. Once we've confirmed that, I will be more than happy to replace the photograph in the article.

In future, should you wish to make any changes to the article, you should make an edit request on the article talk page, indicating what you want to change and providing an independent source. You really shouldn't be editing it yourself.

I hope that's all clear - please forgive me for being cautious, but I hope you can see that we have to do this to protect the intellectual property of people like yourself. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 22:55, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Carron Bridge (River Spey)

On 6 August 2019, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Carron Bridge (River Spey), which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the Carron Bridge (pictured) was the last cast-iron railway bridge to be built and used in Scotland? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Carron Bridge (River Spey). You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Carron Bridge (River Spey)), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 00:01, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Odd mention...

I got mentioned by you in something... But I have no clue what it is. ^v^' James-the-Charizard (talk) 17:16, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Sorry James! I've changed the way I do the course a bit since I started out, and I was putting together a new standardised page where I can copy/paste new sections from. I copied the first section from your page, and didn't notice that it still had a ping to you in it when I hit publish. Don't worry, I've removed it now, I'm not going to ping you every time I take someone else through the course... Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 17:19, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

(@James-the-Charizard: Ironically, I forgot to ping you appropriately above, while apologising for pinging you inappropriately. GirthSummit _(blether) 17:22, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

It's alright. Sorry if I sounded...insensitive there. James-the-Charizard (talk) 17:24, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

​ Not at all - if someone had pinged me to a page for a course that I'd already been through, I'd have wanted to know what was going on too. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 17:26, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Aviation. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Request on 14:33:35, 9 August 2019 for assistance on AfC submission by M998877

• M998877 (talk · contribs)
  • Draft:PDFTables (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

Hi - I created a PDFTables draft page. I've acknowledged your comments however I'd like the content back if possible? I can then work from that to improve the page :-)

M998877 (talk) 14:33, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi - I nominated the page for deletion, but it was another editor - Hut8.5 - who deleted it. If you click on the red link to the draft above, you'll see a link to their page - it's them you'll have to ask. You should make sure you're familiar with our WO:COI policy. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 15:27, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Satoshi Nakamoto

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Satoshi Nakamoto. Legobot (talk) 04:26, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Cloudflare

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Cloudflare. Legobot (talk) 04:27, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Niagara Health System

Hi Girth! My name is Anna. I work in Communications at Niagara Health. You recently reverted the changes made on the Niagara Health article page. The information currently on the page is outdated and I noticed several links do not work. I understand there are some guidelines I need to follow since I do have a COI. I want to make sure I follow the right process and was hoping you can provide some guidance on how I can make a request to update the information. I have several good references that I'm able to include. Thank you so much!

--Ancobi (talk) 16:05, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi Ancobi, thanks for reaching out, and for acknowledging your COI. I see you've made the necessary declaration on your user page too, which is great.

The next step is for you to read about how to make an edit request. Then, go to Talk:Niagara_Health_System, and make your edit request. Keep it simple - say 'Change X to Y', and provide a link to your source. Another editor will assess the edit, check the source, and make the necessary change. I hope that's clear - let me know if you have any difficulties. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 16:12, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the quick response and thank you for the guidance. I will attempt on making a edit request on the page :)

I will definitely reach out if I have any issues. Much appreciated!!--Ancobi (talk) 20:04, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

No problem Ancobi. Just so you're aware, that talk page isn't something I'm personally likely to look at - I only got involved because of the COI issues - but there should be editors who are watching it, and they should be able to respond to your edit requests. If you don't get a response to your edit request within a couple of days, feel free to drop in here again and I'll take a look at it for you. I'm not a subject-matter expert, but I should be able to address any straightforward requests, and I know where to go if we need someone with expert knowledge. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 20:14, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi Girth Summit, I'm working on making some changes to the Niagara Health article page and was wondering if you think it would be best if I sumbit all the changes at once or if it's best to do bit by bit. Thank you! Ancobi (talk) 20:23, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Ancobi, your best bet might be to copy the entire page into your sandbox and work on it in there, then make an edit request linking to the text in your sandbox - that way a reviewing editor can assess them altogether, and discuss them with you. Be sure to cite your sources to support the changes you want to make. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 21:52, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

CVUA course

Hello Girth Summit, I'm interested to start a CVUA course with you. Please confirm if you are available. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 13:53, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Hi ZI Jony, thanks for dropping by. I've got three students on the go at the moment, which is more than I'm generally comfortable with; however, one of them is on their final exam, so should be graduating soon, and the other two have gone a bit quiet, so I think I'll be able to make some time for you - please be aware though that we might have to go slowly, don't worry if I don't respond to your work immediately. I'll set up the training page and ping you from there. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 15:08, 14 July 2019Please

Girth Summit, Please see here. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 12:21, 6 August 2019 (UTC)

Girth Summit, Please see here. I don’t know why it’s not working when I ping you on that page. Warm Regards, ZI Jony ^(Talk) 13:28, 14 August 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 09:42, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie

The article St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 10:41, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie

The article St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 20:01, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:U.S. Route 131

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:U.S. Route 131. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Block needed?

I'm on the fence of this IP [3] whom I gave a level 4 warning earlier today and later in the day, someone gave him a level 1 warning. Should this IP have been reported to AIV? James-the-Charizard (talk) 23:34, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi James, you're right - the user at that IP address was editing very disruptively, changing subjects' names at multiple articles and screwing up infobox templates, and were warned by four separate CV editors including yourself - they should have been reported to AIV when they did it again after the Level 4. Their last edit was half an hour ago, so they may have stopped for now, but I've reported to AIV just to make sure. I'll drop a note to Mc Eduard Figueroa just now to explain about going to AIV after a Level 4 rather than dropping back to a Level 1. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 05:09, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Iglesia ni Cristo

The user 152.32.96.193 has made more edits this evening and then reverted a number of them. I noticed this because of a remaining reference to the Far Far Away in the article. I was looking for information on Iglesia ni Cristo after spotting its Facebook videos on its activities in Japan claiming to be an Evangelical Mission. Note also the peculiar change to the article by 65.74.89.248 on 30 July referring to the "Far West". This may or may not be vandalism. From the point of view of the Philippines perhaps the places described (particularly Hawaii and California) ARE the Far West, though Rome, Jerusalem and Athens would hardly qualify. PS re your bio/intro, I lived much of my life in Ross-shire but am now in County Durham!--PeterR2 (talk) 20:51, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi PeterR2, just spotted this in my talk page and realised that I forgot to get back to you! I don't think it's vandalism exactly - it looked to me like they were replacing the sourced content with their own unsourced opinion, which is treated slightly differently, but ultimately is not acceptable. I've checked the page again and it looks like another user reverted their changes already, and they haven't edited since, so I'll just leave it, but if they start up again with that feel free to either ping me, or just revert them yourself if they're carrying on with the same unsourced changes. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 05:22, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Knockando Woolmill

On 17 August 2019, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Knockando Woolmill, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that woollen fabrics have been produced at the Knockando Woolmill since the 18th century? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Knockando Woolmill. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Knockando Woolmill), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

valereee (talk) 12:02, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Thanks for creating Victoria Bridge, Aberlour.

User:Barkeep49 while examining this page as a part of our page curation process had the following comments:

Testing the message feature

To reply, leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|Barkeep49}}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~ .

Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.

Barkeep49 (talk) 00:12, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Barkeep49, hi and thanks for the review. I received this (as I'm sure you already know), but I think there was something broken with the messaging system yesterday - I reviewed Jamie Loftus, and typed out a message for the author (just about using articles in Forbes by 'contributors' as sources) but it doesn't seem to have showed up on the author's talk page. Whatever, obviously working again now. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 05:16, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Girth Summit, you now have to press the button to send the message. This is separate from marking it reviewed. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 12:48, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Ah, OK, that makes sense - I probably didn't do that. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 13:35, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of St Margaret's Church, Aberlour

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article St Margaret's Church, Aberlour you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 09:02, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of St Margaret's Church, Aberlour

The article St Margaret's Church, Aberlour you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:St Margaret's Church, Aberlour for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 11:01, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

Your kind words...

...have been duly entered in the Great register. EEng 02:51, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

​ Truly, I have attained immortality! GirthSummit _(blether) 03:02, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Reasons

I've probably said it a million times at this point in different user talk pages... Eric was uncivil towards me. That's why I was filed. It's right in the case request under the section titled "Amendment". –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 00:34, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi MJL - I tried to avoid any criticism of you in my recent post, and I hope you don't think I was having a go at you - that wasn't my intention. I haven't read through everything he's ever written, but I'm prepared to believe that EC has been uncivil towards you in the past - that's what I meant about him being a grumpy so-and-so - but he's been blocked (more than once) since then.

Just so I can avoid being accused of making any personal attacks, let's consider a hypothetical person who is:

• (a) an excellent writer, who both produces great content and is an effective copyeditor, and
• (b) is a self-important arse, who can be uncivil towards people he disagrees with.

Do we want such a person to contribute to Wikipedia? I would say that we do - we need their writing skills. We don't want their self-importance and incivility, and we should try to work with them to moderate that, but we shouldn't feel the need to chase them away from the project.

I can completely understand why you would feel angry about this - it's easy for me to sit on a moral high-ground, since I haven't been personally insulted by anyone here. But please look at the moderation in behaviour. SW's intervention on EC's talk page served absolutely no purpose; I don't like the word baiting, but I can't think of any other reason for it. But EC didn't respond. At all. He didn't even revert (which I would have done) - he left it there for someone else to deal with.

EC has been sanctioned - repeatedly - for his behaviour. I wouldn't be making this argument if that wasn't the case. But if, after the latest sanction, he makes steps to back away from the behaviour that led to the sanctions, I think we must give him a chance to make good on that. His interactions with you were all prior to his most recent block. I'd urge you to let the water flow under the bridge, and step away from this. Wikipedia is a big place - I've managed never to cross swords with him, and I wasn't even trying - the chances are you'll never cross his path again, if he decides to return.

The right to bare arms

-EEng

Those are my thoughts anyway. Feel free to reply, or not to, as you wish. I bear (or is it bare? I always get confused by that word) no ill will against you for raising the case, and hope to have the chance to work productively with you in the future. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 01:01, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

[Thank you for the ping] This was merely a response to this line of your statement: What then led to this proposed case? A report about someone else leaving unnecessary snark on EC's talk page. Sorry if I sounded... disinterested or upset. It just becomes tiring when folks seem to ignore my own personal reasonings for filing (not saying you did, but I know others have).
SW doesn't need me to defend him, so I'll just link this statement he made earlier.

As for the other things you have said,
(1) I don't think you were being hard on me in any way. If this had been the case, I would not have posted here. I sincerely like you and value your feedback as an editor.
(2) Concerning content writers, well.. what you say just feels... odd. To believe a good content writer who is grumpy shouldn't be chased away from the project, for the most part is to also believe its inverse: that if someone who is not as good at content writing (like me) gets terrorized away from the project, then that must be an acceptable outcome. To accomodate editors like Eric, it's essential to allow them leeway in how they deal with other editors. It's only realistic to assume that it will come at the detriment of new editors.
(3) How many chances has he already been given? When has he indicated he plans on changing who he is? Why should we expect him to on this one count despite the overwhelming history he has to the contrary?
(4) Why should I yield to an editor who was mean to me when I, myself, have done nothing wrong and broken no rule?
(5) I Googled it, and it's bear apparently (it means to carry when spelled that way). I thought it would've been "bare" too. lol –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 01:34, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Talk page watcher here. Few somewhat disjointed thoughts. MJL I don't think the inverse of two is what you describe. Instead it's some perfectly polite who can't master writing on Wikipedia. That person faces a CIR ban on the regular. And you're not the inverse of Eric, whatever that might mean. You're each your own people. And of course it's not ok for editors to terrorize others, but even though I don't think you were given a fair shake when you brought up content concerns nor would I have chosen the word terrorized. If that's what it felt like to you, I'm sorry to hear that. As for when you should yield to another editor, I have two different thoughts. First what you're describing as yielding, could be described as walking away from a part of Wikipedia that's making you unhappy. This is a volunteer project. Do what brings you joy and makes the encyclopedia better. Second, if you are staying in the content discussion yield when you think the other person is right on the merits. If they're nice and wrong don't yield. If they're a jerk but right go ahead and yield. With content we should all be striving to serve our readers, by upholding our policies. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 01:56, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

@MJL: OK, so there's a bit of ground to cover here. I'll start by saying that I'd already read SW's statement at the case, and I still don't understand how it sheds any light on anything. At best, it seems to be saying 'He was rude to other people, so I was rude to him' - which is really not the standard of behaviour we should be looking for in our administrators, regardless of which 'side' we're on in any conflict. It's the kind of behaviour that would make me vote 'Oppose' in an RfA - but realistically I can't see SW being desysoped for it, and I'm not about to start trying to lead a campaign for that to happen.

Thank you for setting out your other points in handy number using the br / templatey thing; I wish I understood that well enough to respond in kind, and I hope that bullet points will suffice.

• Thanks. The feeling is mutual - I haven't been here for much longer than you have really, and generally I think you're a voice of sanity and reason. I'm afraid that we differ in this particular case, but generally I have no kind of beef with you.
• I see where you're coming from, but I think you're putting words into my mouth there. It's not acceptable for anyone to be chased away from the project, and I never said that it was. But at the same time, the project really needs excellent writers. If I may digress slightly from the subject, my younger brother comes to mind. He is a thorough researcher, an excellent writer, a precise grammarian - and a right-royal pedantic pain in the arse. What is even more annoying is that if I show him something that I've written, he will not only find the spelling mistakes in it, and rephrase it so that it flows better, but he will gloat about it afterwards. I forgive him because he is my brother, and I love him, but if I came across him in an impersonal, text-only environment like Wikipedia, I would probably want to kill him - because he is a total twat. Oh, but did I mention that he has Asperger syndrome? That doesn't make him less of a self-important dick, but it's there. And here's another thing - if I submitted an article for GA review (or whatever), and my brother reviewed it, it would be better for his input. Whatever he said to me, however he made me feel (probably intensely angry!), he would have improved the content. So let me please be very clear about what I'm saying: I do not think that the likes of EC should get away with terrible behaviour just because they are excellent writers; I do think that we need excellent writers on the project; I do think that we should work sensitively with people who exhibit behavioural issues to help them contribute more constructively. I do not think that we should treat Wikipedia like a battleground, where we have to vanquish foes - yes, we remove vandals and spam merchants, but I'd rather we try to find a better way to handle constructive, talented editors who have behavioural issues than just banning them. I realise that this has been a bit of a wall of text, but I want to add to the end of it that I also think it is vital that we do not lose editors such as yourself - this does not need to be a 'one or the other' scenario, as I hope I made clear in may last post. I have gone my entire Wikipedia career without bumping into EC - we don't need to pursue grievances like this unless it's really, really necessary.
• OK, number of chances - I don't know. Lots. He really ought to have learned by now. Blah... Seriously though - look at his behaviour since his last block. Yes, a couple of spicy comments to EEng, but seriously, he can take it. And when SW put a blatant provocation on his talk page - nothing. Not even a revert with a curt edit summary. You have to allow people the chance to change. And if I may, I'll mention my brother again here. If he knew that the entire world was watching him and waiting for him to screw up, I promise you that the first thing he would do would be to drop his trousers - just to get it over with. The fact that EC held back on commenting on SW's post tells me that he was making a conscious effort to reform after their last block - that has to count for something.
• I don't think you should yield to anyone, in any area, if you are adding well-written content supported by sources. I'm certainly not saying that you should avoid EC and any article he has ever worked on. Having said that (and seriously, do not discount what I just said because of what I'm about to say) - if EC disagreed with me about the interpretation of a source, I'd think twice about it. Not because he's rude or sweary, but because he's good. (I know - annoying! Imagine growing up with my brother...)
• Yeah - I thought so - I was on the verge of checking it myself, but I thought that would spoil the spontaneity of the post. Given the time I just spent typing this, that's a busted flush already!

Long and short - I truly wish that EC would rein in his attitude, and it's clear that he can be a pain to be around; having grown up with someone almost exactly like him however, I hope that we will all be able to see past the rudeness and the bullshit, see the steps towards improvements, and allow him to return.GirthSummit _(blether) 02:43, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

@Girth Summit and Barkeep49: sorry, I'm not at my best with words right now. Please disregard some of what I said about being terrorized by Eric. A lot of stuff has started to blur together as this process moves on. That's really been the real terror.. I was certainly strong at first, but I'm on night 3 of this. It just doesn't end.
Let me recompose myself and get back to this, please. I'm really tired. –MJL ‐Talk‐^☖ 03:26, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

(a) I'm on night 3 of this. It just doesn't end – Just wait until the Arbcom case opens, should we all be so unlucky that it's accepted. (b) Let me recompose myself – Here's a joke: What's Beethoven doing right now?

Unhide for answer
He's decomposing.

EEng 03:57, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

MJL, I can't speak for Girth, but I'll say on my end that I don't know that you should feel any need to come back to this if you don't want. :). Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:41, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

MJL, Barkeep is right - please don't feel that you need to return to this if you don't want to. I set out my feelings above because you came here, but you don't owe me an explanation for the way that you feel, and you certainly shouldn't feel that you have to respond to everyone who posts anything on the case request. It sounds like this is all excessively stressful, so my advice to you right now would be to take it off your watchlist and go do something else. (I've got a few DYKs awaiting promotion ;-)) If anything happens there that requires a response, they'll surely ping you. Having said that, you're welcome here any time, whether it's to discuss this further or just blow off some steam. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 10:58, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Paid editor disclosing

Hi Girth!

I commented on the message you left me for the article I created for Blue Sky Architecture. I've been trying to declare my COI or paid contribution but I'm afraid it's not making a whole lot of sense. I understand what I'm supposed to do but I just can figure out how to do it correctly. Maybe after publishing someone comes and checks it? Or am I filling out templates incorrectly? Please any help would be appreciated (and any other advice). Thanks much! Quettal (talk) 04:33, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Quettal - it looks to me like your disclosure on your user page is fine - it makes it clear who has paid you, and which article you have a conflict of interest with. Just ensure that you put the article through the AfC process rather than attempting to publish it directly. If it is accepted, remember that you may no longer edit it directly - you may put edit requests on its talk page, but someone else needs to make the changes.

If you want my advice on the article, I'd say that it still reads as being too promotional, and would suggest trimming it further:

• There are still phrases there that sound like you are trying to make the firm sound significant, rather than describing it neutrally - for example, the phrasing of not just in BC but in other areas of Canada as well as the USA would be more neutral if it just read 'various parts of Canada and the US'.
• There are external links in the sentence about where their work has been published - those need to go, we only do links to Wikipedia articles in the body of the text. To be honest, I'd cut that sentence entirely - it doesn't add anything, other give an air of 'this firm is important, they've been published in magazines', which is not what you want to convey.
• In the 'Projects' section, you describe the projects on the proceeding list as 'notable' - according to whom? If an independent, secondary source has not used that word, you shouldn't either. I'd probably trim to list to remove anything that isn't discussed in an independent secondary source.
• The same goes for the 'Notable awards' section - notable according to whom? You should trim this by removing anything that isn't supported by an independent source - and by independent, I mean independent both of Blue Sky Architecture, and of the body that made the award. If an award isn't picked up by independent media, it's probably not worth mentioning here - we're an encyclopedia, not an advertising billboard.

Hope that all makes sense. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 11:25, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Your thread has been archived

Hi Girth Summit! You created a thread called Cursor jumping when copying or cutting text at Wikipedia:Teahouse, but it has been archived because there was no discussion for a few days. You can still find the archived discussion here. If you have any additional questions that weren't answered then, please create a new thread. Archival by Lowercase sigmabot III, notification delivery by Muninnbot, both automated accounts. You can opt out of future notifications by placing {{bots|deny=Muninnbot}} (ban this bot) or {{nobots}} (ban all bots) on your user talk page. Muninnbot (talk) 19:04, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of St Margaret's Church, Aberlour

The article St Margaret's Church, Aberlour you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:St Margaret's Church, Aberlour for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 19:42, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Abortion

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Abortion. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

• [4] EEng 04:31, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

​ You need a break from all this. I know - why don't we have a go at getting Holocaust denial up to FA? GirthSummit _(blether) 18:25, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

That should be a gas! EEng 18:32, 21 August 2019 (UTC) And see [5]

​ Joking aside, that was actually an interesting read, thank you. GirthSummit _(blether) 19:41, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Taboo humor is a special interest of mine. In 2006 I wrote a paper on it for this guy; the specific topic was my observation that, at the time, one was beginning to see just the first glimmers of humor about the September 11 attacks. So far, since then, it's been following exactly the course I predicted it would. No one has the slightest objection to the quip, "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play", even though the death of Lincoln is perhaps the single more catastrophic event in American history; I can now (in a circumstance where one might conventionally wonder rhetorically whether the pope is Catholic or a bear shits in the woods) freely ask, "Does Rose Kennedy have a black dress?", which I would have to have taken some care with in the 1970s; but one must still be quite cautions about when, where, how, and to whom one makes a World Trade Center joke. We are now coming to the end of a kind of middle stage, see Humor_based_on_the_September_11_attacks (I should probably get involved in that):

In 2016, comedian Billy Domineau uploaded a spec script to the Internet that he had written for Seinfeld,[14] which had aired its last episode in 1998, set in New York during the days after the attacks. He said later that it had started when he suggested "a 9/11 episode of Seinfeld" to a student as an example of "an exercise in bad taste" for a class.[15] In his episode, the show's four main characters follow plotlines typical of them, all related to the attacks: Jerry becomes convinced that dust from the fallen towers is contaminating his food; Elaine, initially relieved that she won't have to break up with a boyfriend who worked at the Twin Towers, finds herself engaged to him when he unexpectedly survives; George basks in the glory after he is mistaken for a hero who rescued people, and Kramer attempts to recover the high-quality box cutter he loaned to Mohammed Atta.

That's just perfect. I'd really like to shake Mr. Billy Domineau's hand. EEng 22:16, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

​ The first glimmers? I fondly remember the Onion's 2001 "Holy Fucking Shit" issue - particularly the story entitled "Not Knowing What Else To Do, Woman Bakes American-Flag Cake", or indeed God's byline about how he thought he'd been quite clear on how killing people was not OK. They got the tone spot on. GirthSummit _(blether) 22:32, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

The Onion's in a class by itself. EEng 23:20, 21 August 2019 (UTC)

Artist information

Hi Sonu is a Punjabi Song writer, Composer, He generally associated with Punjabi Industry And he Has Worked with Speed Records (Label), and Punjabi's Famous Artists like Jassie Gill, Bpraak, Ammy Virk etc. And in 2019 he released his Album. Hello Here are the some Sources of the artist "Sonu". Kindly review and then you can Support or delete The Article.

Thanks 

Jass Manak, Digital Marketer Speed Records and eyp creations

Google Knowledge Panel https://g.co/kgs/R5hH5J

Apple Music : https://music.apple.com/in/artist/sonu/1468948730

Spotify : https://open.spotify.com/artist/1QjMpK7bPWd2Y2C5FE5uBB?si=M7MS6bchS8urLHsla4Ls_A

MusicBrainz : https://musicbrainz.org/artist/f6cdd3fe-fbfd-4581-834a-3181bf97b4df

Medium article : https://medium.com/@PSBMEDIA/latest-track-of-sonu-trappy07-is-out-now-fa7b55da99a3 Ijassmanak (talk) 09:26, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

@Ijassmanak: Hi - I'm not sure whether you've read our guidelines on notability and on reliable sources? I'm afraid that none of these sources help establish the subject's notability. Apple Music and Spotify are commercial sites selling his music - they're not independent. MusicBrainz is user generated, and so not reliable (also, it's just a directory listing, so doesn't give significant coverage). The Medium 'article' is just a brief release - not independent, and too short to be considered significant anyway. I'm not sure where Google get the content for their knowledge panels from - a lot of their products are partially user-generated, which would concern me - but again, it's too brief to be considered significant coverage. What you would need would be some full-length reviews of his work in reliable, independent media in order to pass WP:GNG, or some evidence that he would be notable under the WP:NMUSIC criteria. With regards to the other artists and companies he's worked with, I'm afraid that's not really relevant because notability is not inherited - we are looking at him, as an individual, and I can't find anything that convinced me he's notable. If his album gets some decent reviews, that might change. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 09:57, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Slots

You keep adding new CVN students around every two months or so while no "Student slots open" ever opens up. People are waiting for this to happen to apply since applying out of the blue while there aren't any slots available isn't proper etiquette. What's going on? Rctgamer3 (talk) 03:16, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

@Rctgamer3: You make a good point, and ask a fair question. When I started doing counter vandalism training, I never intended to have more than one trainee on the go at any one time. As I've taken more people through the course, I realise that the system of 'slots' isn't really ideal - some trainees are very active, and it takes a lot of time to keep up with them; others go much more slowly, only updating a task once a week or less, and so it's fairly simple to have quite a few of them on the go at any one time. I haven't been advertising additional slots, but I am pretty bad at saying no to people - generally if someone expresses an interest in doing the course, I say yes, but warn them that I may not respond quickly with feedback since I've got other students on the go.

I've been wondering whether we should do away with the system of slots, and start a sort of 'queue' on the relevant page. Instead of waiting for a trainer to have a slot open, people could just express their interest on the page, noting their time zone, and trainers could then approach them about doing the course when they have some time. I might propose trying that at some point.

Anyway - as you can see, I've just taken on a new student; one of my existing students is quite active, but the other two are going slowly, so if you would like me to set up a page for you and do the course, I'll get the ball rolling. You should start by reading WP:VANDALISM carefully. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 12:14, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

About fighting vandalism...

I have the pending changes reviewer right, but I have not officially gone through the Wikipedia:CVUA. Is that something I should do? I do know about templates and how to use them, even though I've been trying to be more personal when I can lately. Clovermoss (talk) 22:09, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Clovermoss - CVU training is not something that you should do; consider it as something that you may do if you are interested. There are lots of great counter-vandalism operatives who have not been through the course, and have learned what to do by reading the policies and just doing the job; however, the course will direct you to all the relevant policies, and help get you up to speed more quickly.

I would be happy to take you through the CVU training course if it's something that you're interested in. Note though that it isn't for everyone. Counter vansalism work is a largely thankless, repetitive task, and it does open you up for abuse from internet trolls; it is, however, absolutely vital for the encyclopedia to maintain its high standards. If you would be interested in going through the course, reply here and I'll create a training page for you. The amount of time the course takes varies from student to student; a typical guess would be around 20 hours of effort, spread out over four to six weeks, but as I say it varies greatly. Let me know if you're interested, cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 22:24, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Okay, I'll try it. I'm usually on Wikipedia more when I'm bored, but I'm around quite regularly. I might be around less starting in September because of school obligations, but I think I have a good track record of letting others know when I'm busy. Clovermoss (talk) 22:29, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Yeah - come September I'll have school obligations of my own, but I think I'm on the other side of that! Year 6 won't teach themselves...

I'll ping you from your training page. Please go through this at your own pace - there is no obligation to respond to any task in a fixed amount of time, and I'd rather that you take you time and go slow than rush it. Also, if you search hard enough, you'll probably find some previous trainee's training courses, and you may be tempted to copy their answers to the questions - please do not attempt to do this. There is no timescale for finishing the course, and short of deleting the main page you can't really fail it. I'd much rather you give your own answers, in your own words, and allow me to help you fill in any gaps, than copy the 'right' answers from another trainee's page. GirthSummit _(blether) 22:40, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Just letting you know that I'm totally fine with waiting longer for replies. I'm kind of used to asking a bunch of questions instead of answering them, but I understand that the process can be time consuming. Clovermoss (talk) 15:37, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Re: Edits to Tim Pierce's WIki Page

I don't I understand why my edits were reverted entirely by you. What is currently claimed about who played guitar parts on Jon Bon Jovi's Runaway there is incorrect. I simply wanted to set the record straight and thought I did so by providing the necessary citations.

What should I do differently to avoid this happening again? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Touchofsharpedfour (talk • contribs) 19:29, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Touchofsharpedfour - I left a note on your talk page shortly after reverting you - I'll expand further on this there, just so we keep the correspondence in one place. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 19:32, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Re: "Ways to improve Th. Mann & Co."

Good evening.

Thank you for your message.

Yes, as I wrote in the edit-summary, it is indeed a translation of the (mainly by myself written) german article, which I translated today in a hurry. Concerning the references: I wasn't sure, whether or not the german tag-words could be used in engl. wiki, so I left them out. There are relyable sources and I will insert them into the english article, together with several photos I took and pictures I created, respectively images, which are taken out of digitalized and copyright free books/newspapers/journals.

With kind regards

-Dante aurelius (talk) 20:29, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Dante aurelius - thanks for the message, and sorry I missed the comment in the edit summary! It's an interesting article, thank you for translating it. German sources are fine to support the information - English sources are preferred obviously, since it is obviously more likely that our readers will be able to access them, but non-English sources are acceptable. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by 'tag words' - are you referring to categories? If so, then you're right - German-language categories won't work here, but there are probably English-language equivalents that could be used instead. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 20:45, 24 August 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Campus sexual assault

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Campus sexual assault. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

DYK for St Thomas's Church, Keith

On 26 August 2019, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article St Thomas's Church, Keith, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Charles X of France donated a painting of the incredulity of St Thomas by François Dubois to St Thomas's Church in the small Scottish town of Keith, Moray? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/St Thomas's Church, Keith. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, St Thomas's Church, Keith), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 12:02, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

DYK for Coxton Tower

On 27 August 2019, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Coxton Tower, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Coxton Tower (illustration shown), despite having been uninhabited since the 1860s, was used to house Canadian troops stationed in Scotland during the Second World War? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Coxton Tower. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Coxton Tower), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 12:01, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

I'm really enjoying your recent articles about Scottish listed buildings Thank you so much. No Swan So Fine (talk) 12:15, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Thanks No Swan So Fine - really nice to be appreciated! I've been enjoying creating content greatly, it took me a while to come across a subject I was interested in that hadn't been extensively covered already, but then I happened upon the list of category A buildings in Moray, and realised how many didn't have articles, and thought 'hey, thus could be interesting...' I'm planning to do a road trip next year, hopefully will be able to get some photographs to illustrate them a bit better, especially the interiors where possible. Thanks for the new image of Coxton by the way - I assume you photoshoppes the original? I'm afraid my skills are lacking in that department. Cheers. GirthSummit _(blether) 12:42, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Abortion

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Abortion. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Paul Atherton COI & Notability

Hi Girth,

I noticed, that you've re-applied the COI and Notbaility tags(?) to Paul Atherton which were removed a few weeks ago and then seemingly reinstated by a vandal.

It seems there is little movement on the discussion on the talk page but as the Paul Atherton page has been in existence for over ten years does the notability not hold from the time the page was created?

"Notability is not temporary; once a topic has been the subject of "significant coverage" in accordance with the general notability guideline, it does not need to have ongoing coverage."

I notice lots of sources have been removed from that time as the links are dead and it predated archiving.

Equally going through the edits it would appear the article has had some major clean-ups from experienced Wikipedian editors during that period and it is diffiult to see where the neutral point of view has been breached and why if it has, it has not already been addressed?

The subject has more than five films in the permanent collections of two major institutions BFI & Museum of London which if I've interpreted the Personal Notability criteria correctly would possibly be sufficient alone to comply with the criteria.

"People are likely to be notable if they meet any of the following standards... Cretive Professionals (d) been represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums."

But equally

"On Wikipedia, notability is a test used by editors to decide whether a given topic warrants its own article. For people, the person who is the topic of a biographical article should be "worthy of notice"[1] or "note"[2]—that is, "remarkable"[2] or "significant, interesting, or unusual enough to deserve attention or to be recorded"[1] within Wikipedia as a written account of that person's life. "Notable" in the sense of being famous or popular—although not irrelevant—is secondary."

The subjectivity of words like "interesting" or "Unusual" certainly blur things further. For instance I would argue that a politically campaigning homeless producer/director would certainly tick the boxes on both.

Secondary journalistic sources from whole television shorts (4thoughts, Channel 4), through long radio interviews (Homeless, Colourful Radio) to full page articles (The Big Issue) and a chapter in a book (Crippled: Austerity and the Demonization of Disabled People by Frances Ryan) have been cited on the subject. It reads as it the original notability came from the coverage of the short film on the coca-cola billboard at Piccadilly Circus though.

Would be gratfeul of some guidance? 82.11.191.239 (talk) 07:14, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi IP user. Before we begin, would you be prepared to state for the record whether you are the subject of this article, or have any connection with him? Obviously I have no way of determining whether you have or not, but I'm prepared to assume that you will be truthful.

With regard to the COI tag, that was added by an administrator back in March, and I could see no substantive changes to the content that would justify its removal, which was done by an IP editor without an edit summary or talk page discussion in July. I think that the tag is valid - the article is written in a rather promotional manner, and despite the large number of sources, their quality is generally poor - there are tabloid newspapers, primary sources (e.g. court documents), and even some instances of using his own personal website. In my view it has the hallmarks of an article written by someone with a COI, and I think that tag has to stay until someone re-writes the article with content supported by reliable, secondary sources.

The notability tag appears to have been added after a discussion at AfD discussion failed to establish a consensus on whether the subject it notable or not. Again, it was removed without any explanation in an edit summary or talk page discussion, and later reinstated, presumably on the grounds that the editor thought that notability was uncertain. I agree with you that, if it can be established by reliable secondary sources that his work does feature in the permanent collections of several nationally significant galleries or museums, he would be notable under the NCREATIVE guidelines and the tag should be removed. The article asserts that his work is in the collection of the Museum of London, but that is cited to the subject's website, which is insufficient. On searching just now, I was able to find this source, which supports that assertion, so that's a step in the right direction, but so far that's just one museum, which would not establish notability on its own. I don't know enough about the BFI to have an opinion on whether it not it would count as a gallery or a museum - does it have a building, where you can go and watch Atherton's films? Or are they just stored in an archive somewhere, which perhaps also contains every film anyone has ever made? If it is actually on display, and you can demonstrate that with an independent source, then I would agree that would be another step in the direction of establishing notability.

Finally, a note about vandalism. You said above that the tags were reinstated seemingly by a vandal. WP:VANDALISM has a specific meaning at Wikipedia, and it's quite a serious charge to level at someone. I see no reason to think that this was vandalism, and you should be cautious about casting aspersions like that. The editor who put them back on there appears to be in good standing, and added the tags in good faith; you may disagree with them on that, which is fine, but you mustn't accuse people of acting in bad faith unless you are prepared to support your allegations. I hope that's clear. GirthSummit _(blether) 11:21, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Girish

As a Londoner I am aware of Paul Atherton's work but have no direct connection with him.

In respect to the BFI it is a national archive of films but by no means holds all films ever made. As has been made mention by other wikipedia contributors the collections policy is quite strict

• An extract from the British Film Archive Collecting Policy to be found as a Download

4.2 Cultural significance

25. The overriding criterion for acceptance into the national collection of moving image material for the United Kingdom is that the work should be of cultural and/or historical importance to the British people, recognising the diversity of British communities.

26. Because this is the national collection of moving image material in the UK, acquisition of British-produced and British-related material will be prioritised over non-British material, especially for the preservation collection. However, much non-British material is also of cultural importance and some non-British material may be highly relevant to particular cross-cultural audiences for the reference collection.

27. The bfi does not aim to hold a comprehensive collection, even for British- produced material. It aims to collect works that have or had real cultural impact, or historical significance, or that are highly representative of production, society or cultural values, or which are valuable for educational purposes or as information resources for study. Examples include: - High quality productions, where the production values and treatment are of a high artistic merit or information content.

The presentation aspect of the archive is in the BFI Southbank what was formally known as the National Film Theatre or NFT in Waterloo. Archive material is often displayed on the main cinema screens there or made accesible in especially designed booths for individuals to watch them by request in the [BFI Mediateque].

Atherton's Ballet of Change films stored in the BFI archive are

1. Trafalagr Square

2. Leicester Square

3. Piccadilly Circus

4. London Bridge

Am I to draw from your "tabloid" comment, that the Sun, Daily Mail, Guardian (now it too is a tabloid and no longer a Broadsheet) are not acceptable independent sources? I'd certainly like to assist in cleaning this article up if you're open to it?

I also notice that the London Live (TV channel) reference you changed was for this news article, which I've found on the broadcasters own website.

Apologies for the vanadlism suggestion, I'd misread the editing when accessing the changes.

82.11.191.239 (talk) 16:49, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi again IP, no worries about the vandalism remark - I'm glad you've retracted that, and now you're aware for the future.

So, I'm not 100% sure about the BFI - this is probably something that would warrant further discussion, should he ever be nominated for deletion again. One the one hand, from your description the BFI seems to me more like a library than a museum/gallery - and authors are certainly not made notable by their works being held in the collection of a major library; on the other hand, the points you raise about their collections policy are potentially valid - national libraries aim to collect everything they possibly can, whereas the BFI obviously has their own notability criteria. So I'd say it's not a cut and dried question. However - a better way to put his notability beyond question would be to find significant coverage of his work in RS - if everything in the article is true, and was supported by reliable secondary sources, I don't think that anybody would be questioning his notability; however, the sourcing is so poor that it isn't clear to me.

I'd be delighted if you wanted to work on this article - it needs some attention! Even the layout is awful - all those single-sentence paragraphs running down the page, each containing their own little fact without really following a thread, jumping back and forth in time. It's not clear why some things are in the 'Personal life' section rather than the 'Career' section, and a lot of the material is pretty trivial. It looks like people (or perhaps just one person, I haven't dug through the history) has been adding fact after fact as they came across any kind of material about him; no one appears to have ever sat down and said 'I am going to write an article about this person', read all the sources, then written something in a coherent fashion. If you're willing to undertake that task, it would be fantastic.

You will need to try to identify better sourcing that the article currently has. When I referred to tabloids, it was more of a shorthand for the style of writing (sensationalist, with a poor reputation for fact-checking) than the physical format it's printed in. The Sun and Daily Mail in particular have each been individually and explicitly deprecated here as generally unreliable - see WP:Perennial sources for more on this. The Guardian is fine though, as is the Times (and, while the Telegraph isn't mentioned in Perennial sources, I've never seen anyone criticise its use).

Other problematic sourcing in this article (random assortment from clicking on a few of them...

• Numerous blogs - anything on Wordpress, or similar blogging platforms, should not be used (there are occasional exceptions for this, for example if a widely respected academic writes a blog about their area of expertise, but I'm not seeing that here)
• Primary sources - for example, the Muybridge short film festival fact is supported by the Muybridge short film festival's website - that's not absolutely forbidden, but it's not ideal - it's probably not worth mentioning here if no independent media picked up on it, this is an encyclopedic article not a CV.
• YouTube - see perennial sources again. We have to be very careful about linking to YouTube videos, which are often uploaded in breach of copyright law. YouTube is very poor about policing that, but we hold ourselves to higher standards, and we are not allowed to even link to a potential copyright violation (let alone host it ourselves).
• His own website. Self published sources are best avoided, and should only be used to support the simplest of assertions - we generally don't even allow their use for things like date of birth (which people sometimes fib about!). It's used frequently here in this article.

With regard to the London Live video you mentioned above, it's not an ideal source for a couple of reasons. First of all, it's a video - you've got to watch it to verify the information it's being used to support, which might take a bit of time if the information is a few minutes in - written material, like the one I added, is better. Secondly, it's an interview with the subject - again, this isn't forbidden, but it's a bit of a contentious area as discussed at WP:Interviews. The source I replaced the assertion with is, in my view, slightly better, since it only takes a second to check that the information it's supporting is true.

I hope this is all helpful - let me know if you have any questions or need any help when working on the article. By the way, it's a lot easier to communicate if you register an account (apart from anything else, it will allow you to use the notification system). Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 16:53, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Girish

Obviously took your advice and created an account. Thought my Username should reflect the daunting prospect ahead as someone about to tackle an entire entry rather than tweaking pages. Many thanks for the offer of support.

Slightly bemused by the BFI thing in truth. A Gallery is a collection of art of note, a museum a collection of objects of note and the BFI is a collection of film of note. I personally can't see the difference between the three? Though do take your point about citiations and notability. I hate the written style of the entry too.

The article was obvoiusly created by User:Amanda_Paul on 19 April 2009. Wiki-Editor User:MichaelQSchmidt during it's first deletion nomination 22 September 2008 said "tagged for cleanup and rescue, No qquestion of notability per sources available online." Obviously much, if not all, of that online content will not exist today as previously mentioned. How does one go about rekindling that information, if it's not accessible online?

Many thanks. Itsallnewtome (talk) 21:32, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Welcome @Itsallnewtome: - hopefully you've just received your first notification message, so you'll see what I mean about it being useful. Whenever you ping someone (as I just did here with you), they will get a notification, provided you remember to sign your post with four tildes - it's the signature that triggers the software to send the ping, so try not to forget. There is more useful stuff about talk page communication at THREAD and PING.

I think the I'd say that a gallery or museum is slightly different, in that they do not just collect but also display the collections, whereas a library or archive collect then, and provide them to users upon request. Anyway, if the notability comes down to this question, we can have a centralised discussion about it some place and get other people's views on it. I expect though that if you can tighten up the sourcing on the other stuff, notability concerns will evaporate. WP:GNG just needs the subject to have been given significant coverage in independent, reliable secondary sources - if you can find a couple of pieces about him and/or his work in papers like the Guardian or the Telegraph, we've probably got notability covered. (Note that interviews aren't ideal for this, per the link I provided before - but reviews of particular pieces of his work, or about his entire body of work, notability is assured.)

If you look at the article's history, you'll see the date of each version of the article is a blue link - if you click on that link, it will take you to the state the article was in after that edit was made, including links to any sources that it used - every version of every article is stored for posterity, nothing is ever really deleted (although you will occasionally see edits that have been hidden by administrators - that's called revision deletion, or revdel for short, and it's usually done because of copyright violations or offensive vandalism). So, you could look in earlier versions of the article to see if there's anything useful there. If there is a weblink that no longer works, you could try to see if it's been archived at the Internet Archive - the interface is pretty intuitive, just bash in the URL and it will tell you if it has any old versions of websites at that address. Archived webpages are fine to use as sources, provided the website is a reliable source.

You could also use the links in the notability tags - news, newspapers etc - to perform searches for sources. You've probably already read it, but WP:RS describes what you're looking for.

Let me know if you need any assistance with adding sources once you've got them - there should be a 'Cite' tool just above the editing window that lets you choose from a few templates, it's much easier than adding them manually. (I can't remember if the toolbar is switched on by default - let me know if you're not seeing it, you can toggle it on and off in your preferences, if it's not there I'll tell you where to find the option). Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 22:12, 25 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Girth Summit: (Hope I've done that correctly),

Thanks for the advice, much appreciated.

In respect to the BFI & The BFI Mediatheque, they work identically to a museum. The BFI Archive is the collection. The BFI Mediateque is the Gallery, but by the very nature of the medium the visitor needs a screen to navigate the galleries rather than physically walking aroud them.

As I'm sure you discovered upon visiting the iink to the BFI Southbank Mediatheque, the themes of galleries avaiable through the screens are curated and selected,just as if they were in a museum or art gallery. The archive can be accessed as a research tool, as a museum or gallery can, but that is done in their location off Totenham Court Road, the physical archive is housed in Berkhamstead, but as mentioned the public display is the Mediatheque on Southbank. In exactly the same way the National Portrait Gallery is the curated public display of its collection (much of which is housed in their basement) but equally has a library and research centre.

The BFI Curated Collections currently contain for example "This Working Life" a collection of documentaries that examine work in the UK through history, "The Truth About Love" how love has been depicted on large and small screen over the decades and a retrospective of famed working class director Ken Loach. These displays change throughout the year, exactly as an exhibition in a Museum or Art Gallery.

Anyway, lets begin with what notability we are dealing with here? As I understand it, the page was created on the basis of Atheron's The Ballet of Change event in Central London. This got news coverage, including from what I've read on the edits, a report on the 6pm BBC news. The link was provided to that story, but the link back in 2007 was to the dated news of 23 November 2007 and whilst, like London Live News (as we showed with the interview with Atherton about the launch of the exhibition about him and his son in the Museum of London) the BBC do log some of their news stories to access later, this predated that, so this link just takes you to the most recent news (in this case today). As this would be deemed an excellent secondary source, if I've understood the RS correctly, it would seem important that this is cited again. Any ideas of how I'd go about that from a source that only probably existed for a week?

Equally, Am I looking for information about him or his work. It's become unclear whether the notbaility is because of his work or him as a person now (as I said who defines what is notably "interesting" or "unusual")? Guidance would be massively appreciated. Thanks Itsallnewtome (talk) 08:35, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Itsallnewtome - regarding the ping, first (sorry, I should have told you this!), the one place you don't need to ping someone is on their own talk page - you're automatically notified about any changes to that. However, your ping wouldn't have worked, because of the typo you put in my username in your first edit. You fixed it in the second edit, but since you didn't re-sign with four tildes, the ping wouldn't have been triggered. I know - it's kind of frustrating, but it makes sense if you think about the fact that all you're really doing when you edit the page it updating some text. When the software sees four tildes, it compares the new version of the page with the old one; if it recognises any new, valid pings, it triggers a notification. If the ping was invalid (as in your first edit), it doesn't know who to notify; if there aren't four new tildes, as in your second edit, it doesn't look for pings. Hope that's clear(ish).

You make quite a compelling argument for allowing the inclusion in the BFI to count towards notability from a NCREATIVE perspective. I am not sure I'm quite over the line yet on fully agreeing with you, but I suspect you might be able to generate a consensus that the inclusion at the Museum of London and the BFI between them could establish notability. If properly-sourced information about the BFI inclusions were to be placed into the article, you could remove the notability tag, but if you choose to do that you should put an explanation on the article's talk page explaining your action. If you are reverted, you would need to have a discussion on the page, basically repeating the arguments you've set out here.

If I were you, I would hold off on removing the tag until I'd done some work on improving the article. There is no policy-based reason for me suggesting this - the quality of the content ought not to affect people's judgment about his notability at all - but I think it would be the strategic move. At the moment, any editor looking at the page is frankly likely to be offended at how bad the prose is and how poor the sourcing is - the article is an absolute eyesore! - and they are likely to be prejudiced against it. If you put some effort into improving the prose, cutting out the rubbish sources and replacing them with quality ones, I think people would sincerely appreciate that and be more inclined to agree with you. Not how things ought to work, but at the end of the day we're dealing with human nature.

I'm not sure how much reading you've done around notability here - you've quoted from a few guidelines, so I assume you've read them, but I think you're getting hung up on certain phrases that don't tend to come up all that often in notability discussions, at least in my experience. Sourcing is usually what makes the difference. There are a bunch of different notability guidelines, used for different subjects, and he doesn't need to meet all of them - just one. I think the best should would either be WP:GNG or WP:NCREATIVE.

• GNG calls for coverage in multiple reliable, independent, secondary sources. There are a few things to unpick there. 'Multiple' is sometimes interpreted simply as 'more than one' - if the sources are cast-iron quality, and the depth of coverage is good, you can normally get away with just two. Reliable is covered at WP:RS, and as discussed previously, tabloids, freesheets, gossip columns and the like tend not to count. Independent is self-explanatory, but secondary can be a tricky one as interviews are often considered to be primary sources in discussions about notability (since the information is coming direct from the subject, and the journalist isn't checking the assertions, just reporting their words). Lots of half-way notable people (chief execs of minor companies, minor celebs and the like) don't actually get written about, but they manage to get puffy interviews in industry/celebrity mags - that tends not to convince people they are notable.
• NCREATIVE has a few different criteria, and we have been focussing on criterion 4(d) about the museums/galleries, but 4(c) is another popular one - significant critical attention. That's vaguely worded, but in my experience is interpreted in a similar way to GNG, but for their work - if multiple independent, reliable secondary sources have discussed their work, that establishes their notability as a creative professional. I've been involved in a number of discussions about authors, and generally speaking if you can find a few reviews of their books in respectable publications, they are deemed notable.

So, essentially you're looking for significant coverage of Atherton himself to get past GNG, or of his work to get him past NCREATIVE. I haven't been able to find a working link to that BBC news article that you linked - it's one of the problems with using bare URLs as sources, it makes it very difficult to find them again when the website hosting them gets rejigged.

Now comes the bad news - I thought I'd help you out by doing a search for sourcing myself, but I'm afraid I'm drawing an almost complete blank. There's this, but it's just a passing mention. Nothing at all on a Google newspapers or books search. On a general Google search, I found some stuff from the Disability News Service, but I'm pretty sure that would fail as an RS - their 'About us' page indicates that it's a one-man show without editorial oversight - basically a blog. There's nothing else I can find on-line, but I admittedly only spent fifteen minutes looking.

I'm not sure what else to say at this point. What we can show from the reliable sources I've seen is that he is a film producer, whose work might arguably get him over the notability line based on its inclusion in the institutions you've mentioned; what we are lacking is biographical information about him in reliable sources. If it were me, I would probably strip the article back to a very short stub, just a couple of sentences, saying that he is a London-based film maker, whose work is exhibited in the museum of London and the BFI, and listing the works. I'd remove everything else - stuff sourced to the Sun or interviews in local press, to videos that are no longer available, to press releases, even the stuff about the Picadilly Circus billboard (which is currently sourced to an article that doesn't mention Atherton once) - none of that is really verifiable. We don't need our articles to be as detailed as we can possible make them, filling in the blanks with dodgy sources; rather, we aim to summarise what reliable sources have to say, and stay silent when they don't say anything.

If you are able to find sources I've missed, of course, then this would be a different story - my newspaper searching skills aren't top class, and there might be stuff out there that I haven't seen. I hope this makes sense, cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 11:34, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi again Itsallnewtome - just by way of an example of a perfectly acceptable article about a notable writer, take a look at Elisa_Biagini. There really aren't any biographical details - it just says who she is, why she's notable, and lists her works. That's the kind of thing I'd expect to see for someone like Paul Atherton, and I think if that's what his article looked like, it would be pretty uncontroversial and nobody would be arguing about COI or notability. Just a thought. GirthSummit _(blether) 12:31, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Girth Summit

Really appreciate the indepth answers to my questions, but I don't want to weigh you down, so going to hopefully be able to ask you some closed questions moving forward. I've found some reviews of Atherton's first television docudrama "Silent Voices" when it launched on DVD in 2008 in the publications Empire (film magazine) & DVD Monthly (now no longer) neither obviouslly exist online, but the publications have been scan copied and those copies published online to a document sharing website (e.g. Keep & Share).

Firstly, if a publication has a page on Wikipedia does it mean it is acceptable as a secondary source (being itself notable enough to warrant an inclusion in the encyclopedia)? And secondly, if so, when citing the publication should I put the link to the copy of the publication or should I just make it an offline reference?

Many, many thanks. Itsallnewtome (talk) 14:01, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Itsallnewtome, they look like good finds. It isn't whether or not they have an article that matters - the Daily Stormer has an article, and it's flat-out banned - it's whether it's independent, reliably published, with a reputation for reliability, etc. I'd have thought that an Empire magazine review would definitely be usable for these purposes; I haven't heard ot DVD Monthly, but assuming it's a proper review (not just a press release or a one-sentence micro-review) I'd have thought that would be fine too. The sources do not need to be available online - it's great if they are, but it's not required, just use an appropriate cite template and give the date, volume number etc. DO NOT link to the scans - they are probably a copyright violation, we can't link to them. Nice work on finding them! Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 14:34, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi Itsallnewtome (talk)

Sorry for the dealy. This editing thing is quite time intensive isn't it? I've redrafted the opening paragapah in my sandbox, but can't figure out how to get the citations right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Itsallnewtome/sandbox. Would you be good enough to take a quick look and let me know if that's an acceptable tone for Wikipedia and equally how i can fix the errors? Many thanks as ever.

Itsallnewtome (talk) 23:16, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Duodecimal

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Duodecimal. Legobot (talk) 04:26, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Concern at a user page...

So this is me playing it safe, but is there any problems with the user page of this user? [6] (My gut tells me there may be but I wanted to check with someone with plenty of experience, as a safety precaution.) James-the-Charizard (talk) 02:32, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Hi James, this looks like the use of a user page as a Web host - you could probably nominate FOR CSD U5, but in this instance I probably wouldn't - it's got a link to his personal website, but there isn't much else there to concern me - he's not advertising his services or appearing to write an article about himself yet, I've seen far worse than that. He's maybe just editing his user page to figure out how to edit. GirthSummit _(blether) 06:45, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Yeah second thought, good faith applies here, I’ll let him be. James-the-Charizard (talk) 10:20, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

WikiProject Yorkshire Newsletter - September 2019

Delivered September 2019 by MediaWiki message delivery.
If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an N to the column against your username on the Project Mainpage.

21:45, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

DYK for St Margaret's Church, Aberlour

On 4 September 2019, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article St Margaret's Church, Aberlour, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that the construction of St Margaret's Church in the small town of Aberlour, Scotland, was largely paid for with the proceeds of slavery in Jamaica? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/St Margaret's Church, Aberlour. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, St Margaret's Church, Aberlour), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Century

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Century. Legobot (talk) 04:26, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

CVUA

Hey Girth, I would like to start a CVUA course with you.Andrew Base (talk) 13:08, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Hi Andrew - thanks for reaching out. I had a quick look at your contributions, which show that you are already doing good counter-vandalism work, so I would be very keen to help you expand your knowledge and to take you through this course. However, I need to warn you that I am pretty busy in real life at the moment - I'm a teacher, and our new term has just started, so I'm not going to be able to spend much time on Wikipedia for a while. I would be happy to take you through the course, but I won't be able to be as responsive to you as I normally like to be with students. If you are happy to take the course slowly, please respond below and I'll set up your training page. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 07:10, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

Girth, I have no problems with that please set up my training page. Andrew Base (talk) 10:06, 3 September 2019 (UTC)

@Girth Summit: Have you set up my training page? If you have please ping me there.Andrew Base (talk) 08:05, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Andrew Base, hi Andrew, I haven't had chance to set it up yet. I'll try to get onto that soon. If you want to get cracking straight away, give WP:VANDALISM another close read-through from beginning to end, as that forms to core of the first part of the course. GirthSummit _(blether) 09:37, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Hey Girth, set up my training page according to your time. In the meantime, I will continue my vandalism patrolling and will read WP:VANDALISM and will then start the course.Andrew Base (talk) 09:44, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

DYK for St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie

On 5 September 2019, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that James Kyle, Roman Catholic bishop of Aberdeen, designed a Buckie parish church so grand that it is known locally as the Buckie Cathedral (pictured)? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 12:01, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Precious

teaching about historic buildings

Thank you for quality articles about historic buildings such as St Margaret's Church, Aberlour, Coxton Tower and St Peter's Roman Catholic Church, Buckie, for expert reviewing, helping out newcomers and for kind advice, - you are an awesome Wikipedian!

You are recipient no. 2278 of Precious, a prize of QAI. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:12, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

How well deserved! Congrats Girth! Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 13:16, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks so much Gerda Arendt - that really means a lot to me, and I'm glad you've been enjoying the articles. Thanks too Barkeep49 for the kind words - the way things are going, I hope to be congratulating you in a very similar form of words in about six days! GirthSummit _(blether) 16:11, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Girth Summit, no need to wait - I got my precious in January :). Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 16:21, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

RfA

You should consider it. I'm sure you'd have your choice of noms. TonyBallioni (talk) 18:51, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

I endorse Tony's statement. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 18:54, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Me too. – Levivich 19:54, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

@TonyBallioni: I'm flattered that you would suggest that - if you don't mind, I'll respond to your suggestion by e-mail once I've had time to think about it. Thanks too Barkeep49 and Levivich. GirthSummit _(blether) 08:58, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Paul Stamets

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Paul Stamets. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

New Page Review newsletter September-October 2019

Hello Girth Summit,

Backlog

Instead of reaching a magic 300 as it once did last year, the backlog approaching 6,000 is still far too high. An effort is also needed to ensure that older unsuitable older pages at the back of the queue do not get automatically indexed for Google.

Coordinator

A proposal is taking place here to confirm a nominated user as Coordinator of NPR.

This month's refresher course

Why I Hate Speedy Deleters, a 2008 essay by long since retired Ballonman, is still as valid today. Those of us who patrol large numbers of new pages can be forgiven for making the occasional mistake while others can learn from their 'beginner' errors. Worth reading.

Deletion tags

Do bear in mind that articles in the feed showing the trash can icon (you will need to have 'Nominated for deletion' enabled for this in your filters) may have been tagged by inexperienced or non NPR rights holders using Twinkle. They require your further verification.

Paid editing

Please be sure to look for the tell-tale signs of undisclosed paid editing. Contact the creator if appropriate, and submit the issue to WP:COIN if necessary. WMF policy requires paid editors to connect to their adverts.

Subject-specific notability guidelines' (SNG). Alternatives to deletion

• Reviewers are requested to familiarise themselves once more with notability guidelines for organisations and companies.
• Blank-and-Redirect is a solution anchored in policy. Please consider this alternative before PRODing or CSD. Note however, that users will often revert or usurp redirects to re-create deleted articles. Do regularly patrol the redirects in the feed.

Not English

• A common issue: Pages not in English or poor, unattributed machine translations should not reside in main space even if they are stubs. Please ensure you are familiar with WP:NPPNE. Check in Google for the language and content, and if they do have potential, tag as required, then move to draft. Modify the text of the template as appropriate before sending it.

Tools

Regular reviewers will appreciate the most recent enhancements to the New Pages Feed and features in the Curation tool, and there are still more to come. Due to the wealth of information now displayed by ORES, reviewers are strongly encouraged to use the system now rather than Twinkle; it will also correctly populate the logs.

Stub sorting, by SD0001: A new script is available for adding/removing stub tags. See User:SD0001/StubSorter.js, It features a simple HotCat-style dynamic search field. Many of the reviewers who are using it are finding it an improvement upon other available tools.

Assessment: The script at User:Evad37/rater makes the addition of Wikiproject templates extremely easy. New page creators rarely do this. Reviewers are not obliged to make these edits but they only take a few seconds. They can use the Curation message system to let the creator know what they have done.

DannyS712 bot III is now patrolling certain categories of uncontroversial redirects. Curious? Check out its patrol log.

Go here to remove your name if you wish to opt-out of future mailings.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:15, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

A kitten for you!

Thanks for introducing me to this wild world of wikipedia! Kittens for your kindness :)

KnowledgeGoddessDC (talk) 19:12, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank you!

Thanks for your help and the wiki welcome :) I'll review the resources you shared on my page and hopefully improve my editing skills. Appreciate the tutelage. KnowledgeGoddessDC (talk) 20:27, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Are IPs permitted to blank their own talk pages?

An IP blanked a warning I gave them regarding disruptive editing... James-the-Charizard (talk) 20:35, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

James-the-Charizard, hi James, in general, users are allowed to remove material from their own talk page, and I'm not aware of any guideline that distinguishes between registered accounts and IPs in this respect. It does not mean that the warning doesn't stand though - indeed, it's usually seen as a confirmation that they have read and understood the warning. If they continue to be disruptive, escalate the warnings as you would if they were still on the talk page, and report to AIV if necessary - any investigating admin will look at the page history, not just the page itself. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 21:14, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

NPP training

Hey Girth, it's been a pleasure to work with you in CVUA and the course was very enjoyable and helpful. Now since I have graduated from CVUA, I was thinking of a NPP training. Should I ask Barkeep49?Andrew Base (talk) 12:00, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Andrew Base So, this is up to you really. Personally, my advice to you would be to carry on with the counter vandalism work and spend a bit of time getting experienced with Stiki and Huggle, while also learning about how everything works on the site. You might think about doing some content creation - it's fun, and there are plenty of subjects that don't have articles about them yet - I tend to write articles about notable buildings, since that's a subject that interests me and there are hundreds of listed buildings in the UK that don't have articles. Familiarity with how articles are written, our with rules around sourcing and notability, and also with how discussions at AfD work, would all be useful to you if you decide to get into page curation via NPP. When you feel you're ready, by all means apply for some training at NPP school. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 12:08, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Fine Girth, I will check out Huggle and Stiki.Andrew Base (talk) 12:10, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Roger Norris-Green (author)

Regarding my article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Roger_Green_(author): I'm really surprised that the significance of the person is being questioned. This is author who has written 140 books during the 60 years and sold millions worldwide, translated into many languages like Swedish and Finnish (my country). So isn't this notable article? Well, now I added two more references on my article, as requested (book review and The Sydney Morning Herald). I hope that references enough. Or is it so that nothing is good enough? I'm lost, if this not good. Please help me, if necessary. September 14, 2019 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Gari_Jugarin — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gari Jugarin (talk • contribs) 15:26, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Gari Jugarin, hi. Please take a look at our notability guidelines, especially WP:GNG and WP:NAUTHOR. From what I can see, the sources you've added are a review on a blog (not reliable), and an entry on a database (not significant coverage). What you want are sources that are reliable, independent and give significant coverage. There don't have to be many - two would probably be enough - but I'm not seeing any yet that tick all the right boxes. I'll leave it for another editor to review, but to be honest I would not pass it at present, based on the strength of the current sourcing, sorry. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 18:06, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Gari Jugarin I owe you an apology - I missed the Sydney Morning Herald article. That might be a suitable source, but without a URL I can't access it to confirm. If there is an online copy, that would help reviewers out - as I said, I'll leave it now for another to review. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 18:45, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Yes, there are some strong sourches (the book named "Sold by the Millions: Australia’s Bestsellers" and the Sydney Morning Herald article). Besides, I added two more references now, another is Yorke Peninsula Country Times article. I hope these are good enough, because I'm done. I can not do better or more than this. Kindly, Gari Jugarin September 14, 2019 —Preceding undated comment added 19:05, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Gari Jugarin, thanks for adding a link to the Sydney Morning Herald article - unfortunately, unless I've missed something, it doesn't mention this author anywhere. The Peninsula County Times article is just a couple of sentences saying he will be attending a book signing - that's not significant coverage. I can't comment on the Australian Bestsellers source, since I can't access it, but if it's just an inclusion in a list then it wouldn't help - again, what we want is significant coverage of this particular person, or their work, in reliable, independent media. I hope you are able to find it, I have no interest in stopping you publish this article, but it needs to demonstrate notability according to our guidelines. Good luck. GirthSummit _(blether) 20:03, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Transgender

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Transgender. Legobot (talk) 04:26, 15 September 2019 (UTC)

Oliver Maloba

Hi,

I created the page Oliver Maloba which you proposed for deletion - and it was later deleted! Originally it did not have references which I later added but seems it was too late.

Help out please - putting up a page takes hours. You must know a lot more than I do on this streetsTipkorir (talk) 05:29, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Hi Tipkorir, we have a strict policy that no biographical article of a living person is permitted to exist without sources. I can no longer see the article, so I can't comment on the history here, but if you contact the admin who deleted it they may be willing to email you the text for you to recreate with sourcing.

If you want my advice about writing articles, I always work on them in draft space until they are ready - including having plenty of reliable sources to support my assertions and to demonstrate notability. Cheers GirthSummit _(blether) 05:50, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Super Audio CD

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Super Audio CD. Legobot (talk) 04:24, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Special Task Force - South African State Security Agency

Hi GS,

Thank you. I do need some help here with this concerning content. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.113.33.59 (talk) 06:44, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

I've replied on your talk page, but basically you need sources to add content like that. GirthSummit _(blether) 06:59, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Hi GS, Thank you, I got it. It's ruining my life though. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.113.33.59 (talk) 07:35, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

I don't really understand what you mean by that, but I'm sorry if this is causing you any distress. Just try to find some reliable published sources to support your claims. GirthSummit _(blether) 15:16, 20 September 2019 (UTC)

Huggle

Hey Girth, I have downloaded Huggle and logged in. It shows a list of recent unhelpful changes but which button will I use to revert changes when it is unhelpful?Andrew Base (talk) 09:00, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Andrew Base, I'm on mobile at the moment, but the drop-down menus along the top allow you to select different reasons for reverting (or to choose whether or not to warn, or to mark the edit as a good one). There are short-cut keys for each of the options, but I can't remember off the top of my head what they are - I think the menus tell you though? GirthSummit _(blether) 17:41, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Andrew Base, hi - I'm back home and in front of my PC - have you been able to figure this out yet? GirthSummit _(blether) 20:03, 19 September 2019 (UTC)

Hey Girth, I've figured it out and started using huggle and it is working fine. Are IP users allowed to remove warnings from their talk page?Andrew Base (talk) 08:56, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Andrew Base, see my comment above to James the Charizard - users are allowed to remove messages from their talk pages, and while WP:OWNTALK makes no mention of IP talk pages, I'm not aware of any guideline or policy that would cause us to treat IP talk pages differently in that regard. However, the removal of a warning is often considered an indication that the user has read and understood the message, so in the case of repeated vandalism you should escalate your warning when there have recently been warnings issued, even if they have been removed - if you end up reporting to AIV, and investigating admin will look at the talk page history, not just what's currently on the page. GirthSummit _(blether) 09:43, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Margaret Macpherson Grant

Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Margaret Macpherson Grant you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Gog the Mild -- Gog the Mild (talk) 22:01, 21 September 2019 (UTC)

Please comment on Talk:Marvin Minsky

The feedback request service is asking for participation in this request for comment on Talk:Marvin Minsky. Legobot (talk) 04:25, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Question about revert at Ad Astra

why would the English for a movie title in Latin be "unnecessary"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.88.118.86 (talk) 15:11, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Hi IP editor, thanks for reaching out. As you can see, I've moved your comment to the bottom of the page, and given it a new section.

So, I guess my edit summary of 'unnecessary' was a bit brief. What I meant was 'unnecessary in that sentence, and also slightly ungrammatical'. You added Latin for _to the s stars,_ into a sentence about when and where the film had its world premier - aside from the typos, that wasn't the right place to add an assertion like that. The subject of the sentence is the film itself, but your assertion was about the phrase it takes its name from - they don't fit together in a single sentence, the two subjects are obviously related, but distinct from each other. I wouldn't have an issue with an assertion about the meaning of the film's title being added at an appropriate point in the article. Hope that makes sense. GirthSummit _(blether) 06:32, 23 September 2019 (UTC)