This is an archive of past discussions about User:Airborne84. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Hyborian War/TFA

PBM

I started Hyborian War as a stub a while back and I watched with fascination as you worked on it. :) I had been wondering if you had an interest in PBM games in general, or just that game, but based on your recent activity I think you must have some interest in the general subject area? I started most of the stubs under Category:Play-by-mail games around the same time as Hyborian, and most of them are undeveloped as well, and most have survived to this point (although Battle of the Gods (play-by-mail game) was just deleted at AFD; if you want to do a sandbox or draft of that one at some point let me know and I will provide it for you). Space Gamer covered PBM pretty heavily throughout the 1980s, so you may find that a valuable source if you look it up on archive.org like I did to start all those articles. Lords of Destiny was an Origins Award winner so I added that, and in fact there were winners every year for several years; see Wikipedia:Requested articles/Arts and entertainment#Charles Roberts Award winners for the ones that do not have articles yet! At some point I am going to turn Illuminati (play-by-mail game) into an actual article, as that may be one of the PBMs that does not yet have an article but which is most deserving of one. ;) That one may have won the most Origins Awards! Anyway, I don't have any interest in PBM myself, outside of the general promotion and improvement of hobby games articles on Wikipedia. I just figured you might be interested in where things stand, to give you some ideas on what to pursue next. :) BOZ (talk) 13:38, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the note BOZ. I'm mostly interested in Hyborian War at this point, but I decided to tinker a bit with a few others since I had some older sources like Paper Mayhem on hand. I don't mind continuing to tinker a bit, but won't go beyond that, I think. I'll take a look through what I've got in the coming week on Battle of the Gods and Illuminati to see if I have anything on them. Perhaps we can resurrect the former and bring about the latter if I can find some secondary sources. Will advise. Thanks again! --Airborne84 (talk) 16:47, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Sounds good. :) I don't have any particular interest in the topic either, just to build up here and there for people who might be interested. BOZ (talk) 00:29, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

Good work so far. :) If you were interested in starting more PBM articles, I figure award-winners are a relatively safe bet, so I went through the rest of the Origins Award winners for PBM and came up with this list:

~~It's a Crime (play-by-mail game) (Adventures By Mail) - 1986~~ & 1989
~~Kings & Things (play-by-mail game) (Andon Games) - 1988~~
~~Beyond the Stellar Empire: The New System (Adventures By Mail) - 1989~~
~~Monster Island (play-by-mail game) (Adventures By Mail) - 1990~~
~~Quest: World of Kharne (Adventures By Mail) - 1993~~
~~Forgotten Realms (play-by-mail game)~~ (Reality Simulations) - 1994
~~Starship Command (play-by-mail game)~~ (Elite Simulations) - 1996
Dungeon (play-by-mail game) (Madhouse USA) - 1998
Button Men Web Game (Cheapass Games) - 2002
~~Fall of Rome (play-by-mail game)~~ (Enlightened Age Entertainment) - 2004

If you see any interesting ones that you can find other reviews and sources for, then I say go for it. :) I may start some or all of them in the future. BOZ (talk) 00:25, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

Thanks @BOZ. Off the top of my head, I remember seeing articles on most of those in some of the Paper Mayhem magazines I have. There are four or five others that kept recurring. Alamaze and CTF2187 were in just about every other issue, for example, and were probably in the others like Gaming Universal and Flagship as well. Midguard and a few others had multiple articles/reviews, showing that people liked them enough to keep submitting articles, and they also did well in the reader-generated polls in Paper Mayhem. Interestingly, although sometimes Origins Awards correlated with placing high in the Paper Mayhem rankings, other times, they did not. Anyway, I'll probably keep tinkering with this topic a bit in the future, but it'll be off and on. Thanks again and happy editing! --Airborne84 (talk) 02:24, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

There's no rush at all, take all the time you need. :) Alamaze has an article, by the way! BOZ (talk) 04:21, 24 February 2020 (UTC)

If you want to develop it at all, there is one more PBM magazine stub that I started a while ago, The Nuts & Bolts of PBM. BOZ (talk) 11:28, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

@BOZ, interesting. I saw something on that when I was rummaging around. Have to think on where it was.... --Airborne84 (talk) 19:34, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

Further Congrats

Further congrats on Hyborian War - featured article !!!! - I helped to get the Legends (PBM) and Middle-Earth Play-By-Mail to a state where they were unlikely to be deleted - and some editors fleshed those out a fair bit - but then someone came through with a pruning saw chopping out stuff without decent references, so mostly I'm wondering how/where you found all your reference info for Hyborian War - and whether you had any tips (watching this page for a couple of weeks for possible replies) EdwardLane (talk) 11:07, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the note and congrats EdwardLane. For Hyborian War, the main sources were Paper Mayhem magazine, which is out of print (but you can find issues online), White Wolf Magazine which was not a PBM magazine but ran PBM articles and even issues, Suspense and Decision the current online PBM magazine, the publishing company's website itself (only when no secondary source was available), and some others. As far as Legends (PBM) and Middle Earth Play-by-Mail, I added some Paper Mayhem articles in the Bibliography sections. They will help with the history of the games if you can get copies. I recommend also searching the online copies of Suspense and Decision at its website. You may find some articles in them that are readily available for use. You might find something in an old issue of Space Gamer/Fantasy Gamer or White Wolf. Can't hurt to check, except the former is searchable and viewable online while the latter you can search but you have to buy hard or digital copies. Linking @BOZ in too. Hope that helps! Airborne84 (talk) 16:35, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks - I'll have a look at those, wasn't sure that small publishers counted as reputable sources for references, but it looks like they do - cool EdwardLane (talk) 11:59, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Hyborian War

Hi. would you mind posting Hyborian War at GoCE Requests, where I will pick it up and work on it. This will mean that it will formally go down to my credit there. GoCE is where I started when I first became active on Wikipedia. And while, in truth I am too busy with content creation and reviews to pull my weight there, I like to feel that I am still paying my dues, as it were. Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:33, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

You bet Gog the Mild. Enroute. Airborne84 (talk) 00:57, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

Just a suggestion, but you might want to see if you can find some sources to beef up the Reality Simulations article before putting in the FAC again, just in case anyone wants to question the notability of the company. (Some of the other major PBM companies - like Schubel & Son at the very least - need articles at some point, but that's a project for another day.) BOZ (talk) 15:08, 11 June 2020 (UTC)

If you have anyone who may be interested in reviewing this at FAC, now would be a good time to give them a firm nudge. Gog the Mild (talk) 13:54, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Will do Gog the Mild. Sent a nudge last night. Will send a couple more as well. Thanks! Airborne84 (talk) 15:39, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Got a couple of reviews going now Gog the Mild, and someone to sign up for a review in the next few days as well. Will keep working it. Airborne84 (talk) 01:23, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Hyborian War scheduled for TFA

This is to let you know that Hyborian War has been scheduled as WP:TFA for 19 August 2020. Please check that the article needs no amendments. If you're interested in editing the main page text, you're welcome to do so at Wikipedia:Today's featured article/August 19, 2020. Thanks! Ealdgyth (talk) 14:06, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Great. Thanks! Airborne84 (talk) 15:01, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Good deal. :) BOZ (talk) 15:42, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

Just saw this on the main page - congrats!! - Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 02:49, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Much appreciated! Thanks for the assistance! Airborne84 (talk) 02:54, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the article, explaining "Conan the Barbarian is the central figure in this sword and sorcery play-by-mail/email (PBM/PBEM) game which occurs in the Hyborian Age created by Robert E Howard. The game launched in 1985 and has been available for play for 35 years, one of the longest-surviving games of the PBM genre."! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 05:29, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Hyborian War

Thanks for this. Can you point me to the relevant text? --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 14:55, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Hi Dweller. Thanks for your interest in improving the article. For the tag on the periods in the early years and 21st century in which the game won multiple awards, the details are in the first and last paragraphs of the Reception and legacy section. E.g., No. 1 and No. 2 Best PBM Game in Paper Mayhem in 1987 and 1998, etc. as well as the Origins Award winner for Best Play By Mail Game in 2008.

The other tag removal was an error on my part as it is not explained in detail in the article. However, the source says a "sizable body of players". I am not aware of any exact estimates of the number of players by reliable sources, including the company itself. Charles Mosteller, the source of the quote, is the editor in chief of the online PBM magazine, and is probably in the best position to provide an estimate and he only provided that wording. I believe there are wide-ranging estimates by players on the Road of Kings website, but I wouldn't consider those reliable. If you would like that tag readded, I would simply strike that part of the sentence in the lead and remove the conclusion sentence of the article. However, that would remove all mention of the player base size for the reader. Let me know what you would like to do. Airborne84 (talk) 00:55, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

"Sizable" is WP:PEACOCK. Is 1,000 players "sizable"? 100,000? 10,000,000? We should just remove it. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 08:39, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. That's certainly understandable. However, since it went through the Featured Article process, I'll first add this discussion to the talk page so others can comment. Thanks again for your interest. Airborne84 (talk) 11:36, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Per WP:FAOWN you may wish to ping the FAC reviewers at the article talk page. (This discussion is how I handled a recent change to an FA I had nominated. I am not saying that this is how others should handle similar situations, just using it to flag up a possible way of amending the FAC review consensus.) Gog the Mild (talk) 22:11, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

FAC

Spare time on your hands?

If so, if you fancied reviewing my current FAC Battle of Adys, which seems to have stalled a little, I would be grateful. Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:25, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

You bet Gog the Mild. Lots of spare time? No. But I carve out time for people who made time for me. Will review within the next 72 hours! Airborne84 (talk) 20:03, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

No rush, but thanks; I appreciate that. Gog the Mild (talk) 20:44, 24 June 2020 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Hyborian War advertisement from 1985, year of inception.jpg

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Hey

Would you possibly be interested in reviewing an important eastern Pacific storm that is a three-way collaboration? It was the most important storm for the year 2018 in the eastern Pacific. Noah^Talk 23:34, 28 June 2020 (UTC)

Sure Hurricane Noah. Which one? Airborne84 (talk) 00:52, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Guessing Hurricane Willa. Will start reviewing that one. Please advise if you meant something different. Airborne84 (talk) 00:57, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, let me know how it is. Noah^Talk 20:58, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Will do, slowly working through. Might take a couple of days. Airborne84 (talk) 21:08, 30 June 2020 (UTC)

Nomination of School of Advanced Air and Space Studies for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article School of Advanced Air and Space Studies is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/School of Advanced Air and Space Studies until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Chris Troutman (talk) 22:17, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Congratulations

Congratulations on your FAC passing! Have you thought about making a topic of play by mail games? I notice you have written a lot of articles about them. I know it wouldn't be easy to accomplish as I have been working on the 2018 Pacific hurricane season topic for quite some time now. I will have to rework some of the GAs to get them up to par/FAC ready, but this topic is coming along nicely. Noah^Talk 02:50, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Hurricane Noah. I hadn't thought about it, actually. I kind of gradually came into the genre while working on this article (I enjoy the game) and just tinkered a bit since I had the sources. Perhaps BOZ has thought of it; he's written a bunch as well. I've also noticed you've worked quite a bit on the 2018 Pacific Hurricane season. Great work! Thanks again. Airborne84 (talk) 14:25, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

I'm not sure what would be involved in that, but I would be happy to help organize. BOZ (talk) 15:04, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

Every play by mail game would have to get good article status and 50% must be featured (in the case you want to pursue a FT). You would need some kind of main article for the topic as well. Airborne, I am working on the main article right now for the 2018 EPAC season. That bad boy is going to be massive! I probably will spend tomorrow summarizing preps/impact + aftermath (if needed). I'm thinking the prose may end up over 60k bytes. Not really that bad considering there are 27 storm sections. Noah^Talk 00:45, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining Hurricane Noah. First I have heard of the Featured Topic actually. Probably wouldn't work for the play-by-mail genre right now since there are hundreds of play-by-mail games and a few dozen have articles in stub or start-class forms. But it might be possible to carve out a portion of them to focus on, such as 1980s play-by mail games or the like. Will keep it in mind, thanks! Airborne84 (talk) 14:00, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

That sounds like it would be a very massive undertaking, and very unlikely to succeed if they would expect you to get every PBM article up to GA at minimum! Still, a cool thought, who knows what could be accomplished in the future. Yeah, a subsection of them may work; maybe the easiest thing would be "PBM games by Reality Simulations"? Then you would need to get the company article, Alamaze, and Duel2 up to GA, maybe start article on their Forgotten Realms PBM and The Next Empire and get them up to GA, and then with a total of 6 articles you would need 2 more of them to be FA? It would be plenty of work, but it sounds actually achievable. BOZ (talk) 19:52, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

That's possible. Another possibility would be PBM Games from 1985 (or another year). Or Open-ended PBMs of the 1990s. Or Computer-moderated PBMs of the 1980s. I haven't checked any of those possibilities out yet, nor do I have time in the near future to work on a Featured List, unfortunately. I'm just throwing out some ways one could carve up PBMs to create a manageable Featured List using the criteria in the play-by-mail game article and some other aspects like publishers that you mentioned. Airborne84 (talk) 21:34, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Any topic is a possibility as long as it has at least three articles and has a main article linking them. Also, I finally finished that season article... It was a brute to do. Here are the statistics for that page. Noah^Talk 21:32, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Hurricane Noah, three articles—that's good to know. Manageable. And I checked out that article you noted. Significant indeed. Thank you for your efforts on it and to improve Wikipedia! Airborne84 (talk) 22:59, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

Hey

How are things going for you? Noah^Talk 03:17, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

All good Hurricane Noah. I'm on Wikipedia infrequently nowadays. Check in once every week or two. Hope the storm articles are going well! Airborne84 (talk) 00:48, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

This is where it stands currently. I am fixing up my older GAs that aren't in good shape. Noah^Talk 01:13, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

This is an archive of past discussions about User:Airborne84. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.