User:Penubag/Archives/graphics
This is an archive of past discussions about User:Penubag. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current main page. |
- User:Penubag/graphics#Gold_medallion
- User:Penubag/graphics#Atlas_trophy
- User:Penubag/graphics#Puzzle-globe
Puzzle-globe
Enjoy! --tiny plastic Grey Knight ⊖ 06:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Wow, that was all done in POV ray? I'm impressed. Is that free software? -- penubag (talk) 19:48, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
- By the regular definition of the phrase, yes, but please also see the gargantuan discussion at Talk:POV-Ray#Why is this in Category:Free graphics software, when it isn't Free? for the "Free as in speech" crowd's take on your query! Personally I blame rms for not coming up with a better name (I mean, seriously, did he really think that "Free" would be completely clear and unconfusable with "free"?).
- Anyway, I did cheat a little with the surface detail, which is "bump-mapped" and not "real" surface detail. Basically POV-Ray uses a "bump-map" image to get some elevation data from, and then distorts reflections from the sphere so that it looks like there are bumps in the same pattern; for instance, if you look carefully at the edges of the sphere's image, you'll see that the outline is circular, even where you might expect a "notch" where a groove is running around the side :-). I'm still working at carving a physical puzzle-globe, but I knew I wouldn't get done in time, so I drew out a bump-map and used this approach instead. It works well enough, it's just not appealing to the perfectionist in me :-) --tiny plastic Grey Knight ⊖ 09:04, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
- Do you have a layer file for that? If so, please email it to penubag, so he can tinker with it. (It's fun, and sometimes has unexpectedly good results). In the meantime, I'll examine this more closely, and will get back to you with comments. The Transhumanist 22:34, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- I couldn't stop staring at the full-sized image. "Wow" is right. That image is way beyond my ability. I especially like the lathed wooden legs and the ornamental brace between them. Awesome.
- While admiring your work, I spotted a few ways it might be improved...
- Could the perspective be changed to see the back legs?
- The gold parts look almost like they're painted, rather than metalic. Could you fiddle with that and see if you can get them to look like shiny gold?
- The puzzle piece edges don't look like puzzle piece edges. That is, the globe doesn't look like it is a bunch of puzzle pieces fitted together. It looks like a globe with puzzle piece-shaped canals carved into it. If that's really hard to fix, we may be able to find another solution (image compositing). The stand is the important part - the missing component we've been desperately searching for. It's pretty cool.
- The globe is kind of dark. When shrunk down, you can barely see the puzzle pattern, or the continents on the bottom part of the globe.
- While admiring your work, I spotted a few ways it might be improved...
- I look forward to seeing your next version. The Transhumanist 23:05, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
- I don't have anything approximating a "layer file" — the kind of work involved here is best thought of as a combination of sculpture (in a virtual space) and photography, really. :-)
- Perspective is trivial to change, I can just swivel the camera around to get any old angle. I'll try for an angle approximating that of Image:GIMP Globe-in-Stand.png.
- They're actually very shiny; look at the reflection of the globe and circumpolar band in the surface of the equatorial band to see what I mean. The problem is that they're too smooth, I think; I'll fiddle with the textures again.
- I think I can fiddle the bump map to get a better profile on the edges.
- That's to do with the world map used for the "image map" on the globe, I can probably adjust contrast and brightness on it a bit.
- That little "nub" on the circumpolar band is supposed to be the axle connecting it to the equatorial one, I must have calculated the rotations the wrong way around and it's gotten dislocated. I'll also flip the bump-map around, since the puzzle pattern is currently going the wrong way compared to the Wikipedia logo! --tiny plastic Grey Knight ⊖ 08:19, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- I don't have anything approximating a "layer file" — the kind of work involved here is best thought of as a combination of sculpture (in a virtual space) and photography, really. :-)
Hi. Image:Marble-wiki.png may be a good idea to use as a globe, but its copyright status is still uncertain so that needs to be fixed, and my version of Image:GIMP Globe-in-Stand.png is an approximate idea of the perspective from which we want to view it at (except that my version is a bit too blurry/jaggedy/imperfect). Thanks. ~AH1(TCU) 01:11, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
- Image:Marble-wiki.png is only 477 pixels which is no where near the needed 1,280 pixels. I'd suggest making a larger version from Image:Wikipedia-logo.png. -- penubag (talk) 04:34, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
- Grey Knight, have you seen Blender (software)? Have you tried it before? How does it compare to POV? Just little questions for my little brain. :) -- penubag (talk) 04:34, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
Gold medallion
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Past discussion:
Gold medallion archive
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The Transhumanist 10:54, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Heads upI've posted a question at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Wikipedia logo font, that might be interested in. (I hope someone knows the answer). The Transhumanist 01:02, 7 June 2008 (UTC) Re:Graphics request
medal componentsOn a hunch, I went looking around: I found a world map that I was able to convert to a silhouette: An Aitoff, Hammer, or Mollweide projection would work better because they are not flat at the top and bottom. But I haven't been able to find one that I could convert to a silhouette. We may have to widen the search to the internet - I'm sure there must be public domain maps out there that would work for our purposes. Using a silhouette of a map will allow us to have latitude and longitude lines on the medal. I haven't yet figured out how to engrave or emboss an image into a surface, have you? The Transhumanist 10:45, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Courtesy of the User:Grey Knight:
The Transhumanist 20:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC) Rough draftBefore I proceed with anything else, I made a quick rough draft of what the medallion would look like with lat/long. lines. Are you sure this what you are looking for? Image:Long.lines(test).png As I said before, I do not think this is a good idea as map scaling and fitting would be impossible.-- penubag (talk) 02:17, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Rough rough draftI'm sure you can make it look impressive. Be sure to use the Wikipedia font. And since it includes "Wikipedia", be sure to use the Wikimedia Foundation copyright tag. But the first step in making this work, is to track down an Aitoff or Hammer projection. If the lines are solid enough, I can silhouette it like I did the above map. Either of those projections will fit the contour of the coin much better, because they don't have flat top and bottom edges like the Robinson projection does. The Transhumanist 03:28, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Just because it contains the word Wikipedia, does not make it WMF copyrighted. {{trademark}} or {{PD-font}} suffices for the text. -- penubag (talk) 03:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Image:Another medallion draft.png So which variant is your favorite. -- penubag (talk) 03:48, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Try thisIt's a Hammer-Aitov projection. Have fun. The Transhumanist 09:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC) DoneDone with some of your requested changes: Image:WP World traveler beta.png
By the way, I'm really impressed at the silhouette you made in GIMP, I think if you keep up the work, you can call yourself a graphic artist :) -- penubag (talk) 03:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Image:Hammer-Aitov Projection.jpg and:
P.S.: How did you create the ring!? The Transhumanist 03:35, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
re Hi!I'm the other person working on a version of these, I thought you might like to compare notes or something. My current version of the medal is linked below, I'm going to have a go at the globe-and-passport thingy next when I've finished tinkering with the medal. The Atlas-and-puzzle-globe I'm probably not going to be able to do — humans are hard to model, and I'm not very good at it. I can make you various images of the puzzle-globe once I finish modelling it though, if you need them for it? Have fun! Image:Example-WP-World-Dev-Medal.png (still has a bunch of errors :-() --tiny plastic Grey Knight ⊖ 22:29, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Here's a few versions I made:-- penubag (talk) 22:46, 15 June 2008 (UTC) straight corners (color may be fixed later)swiveledone engraved version Ooh, you made the continents thicker. Nice. But keep in mind that they're not engraved - by that I mean carved into the medal rather than rising up from it. But I like the thicker continents. Can you reverse the lighting (back to the way it was) so that the raised edges of the continents are in shadow? That way the lighting and shadows will match that of the medal's ring. The Transhumanist 20:30, 17 June 2008 (UTC) Hi guysLooking at the two medals above, I'm thinking a straight-on view looks better (like in Penutab's version), and adding a ribbon will make the medal too small in the space it will be presented. Let's try combining the two designs... Grey Knight - can you match the base color of Penutab's medal, and then create an engraving of the map and words, using the same size and placement in Penutab's version, and then insert them into Penutab's design - replacing the current face of the medal, while retaining the ring edge of the medal? Don't forget the lighting / color gradient - perhaps Penutab can handle that part. I'm curious what Penutab's medal will look like engraved. The Transhumanist 03:35, 15 June 2008 (UTC) Graphics design - picking up where we left off on the medalPenubag, have you figured out how to carve things out of an image yet? I still don't have a clue how to do it! Grey Knight, can you apply the engraving (carving) technique you used on the continents in the world map I posted above (like you did in this): Image:Example-WP-World-Dev-Medal.png and replace the map in this: Just to see what it looks like. We've only got 18 days left! The Transhumanist 19:07, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
discussionTranshumanist, I didn't realize how badly you wanted the map carved out rather than out like a coin. I have several drafts on my computer but I need to know how deep you want the carve and such before I can make a really good one. -- penubag (talk) 07:59, 30 June 2008 (UTC) Whoa. Nice. I can't make up my mind which one looks better. You've done such a good job on both of them. Please email me the psd files. I'd like to tinker with them. The Transhumanist 19:28, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
Feedback's coming in on the medal designsI requested feedback on the 2 versions of the medals. Comments are accumulating on my talk page, in case you are interested. I'm thinking we should use one for presenting the award, and make the other available as an alternative image for those who prefer it. You did a very nice job on both of them, by the way. Thank you. The Transhumanist 22:23, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
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Medallion v3 done
Although only a minor difference from v2, I actually like v3 where I disliked v2, maybe as much as v0. Some of my changes are: artifacts removed and the coordinates toned down. The lettering was fixed for realism and the map a sharper edge rather than the soft on v2. What are your thoughts? -- penubag (talk) 19:02, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- Version 3 is awesome. I was hoping for an impressive award, and you made one even better than the one I had envisioned. Well done, man. Version 3 is our official version. Those who like version one can replace the image in the award after they receive it.
- By the way, the page name is kind of awkward (especially the "v3"). Please rename it to "Image:Wikipedia World Developer Medallion". I think that can only be done by uploading under a new page name. You should find something minor to touch up to legitimize the upload.
- One down, two to go.
- Thank you.
- The Transhumanist 01:27, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
Atlas trophy
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Past discussions:
Atlas trophy archive
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This one should be funHere are some components for you to mess around with to build a trophy image. Here's a statue that could be converted into a trophy: Here are the specs for the trophy I have in mind:
To see if the concept is feasible, I worked up a sample. Don't use this, it's just a rough work up for reference: Image:Atlasgold and wikiglobe.png The above is just an example, and is lacking most of the specs. But it shows the relative size I want for the globe. Someone retained the proper lighting by using the original pic, and superimposed the wikipedia logo over it. I wonder if the initial bare orb could be enlarged? That would create gaps, but perhaps those could be filled in? Here it is: The author of the above used this logo: Maybe the continents could be extracted from this, but the continents from the other side should not show through. Well, have fun with these. The Transhumanist 10:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
The continents were very easy to extract and colorize using the GIMP: Feel free to adjust the color. I changed the color as an experiment. The Transhumanist 10:26, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Licensing comments: Because the final image will be copyrighted by the Wikimedia Foundation, the non-logo components must all be public domain. Please remember to upload any new public domain components first, if any, to establish them as part of the public domain before copyrighting the final image they will be part of. The Transhumanist 11:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Some observations on and ideas for the trophyThe lighting/shading on the wikiglobe is different than the lighting/shading on Atlas. Is that something we can fix? It was fixed on that blue statue above, but I have no idea how they did that. Any ideas? By the way, I tried changing the black symbols on the wikiglobe to a shade of gold, but it doesn't look right because of the way it contrasts with the shadows. (Black doesn't have that problem). So, to make gold work for the symbols, different shades of gold will need to be used to be consistent with the shadows. Who wants to tackle that? We need a pedastal for the trophy. Anybody want to tackle that? Its perspective needs to match the rest of the image, so it should probably be scratch-built rather than pulled from a photo. I look forward to your replies. The Transhumanist 20:47, 26 June 2008 (UTC)
DiscussionI had a few spare minutes and did some work on it. See Image:Gold atlas beta2.png. I know it doesn't exactly fit your specifications yet but atleast we have a starting point. -- penubag (talk) 06:52, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
---- v2|150px|left|thumb]]
Here's an idea for a pedestal that should be easy to make look real: and upside down pyramid. Not only will Atlas be holding the world on his shoulders, but he'll be performing an incredible balancing act as well. Just like us Wikipedia editors! The hard part will be to get the perspective right. If the pyramid is drawn in its final perspective, then getting the shape right will be the hard part. Just my guess. The point of the pyramid should rest directly upon the bottom edge of the image.
For the globe we need to build it from the ground up.
Someone worked up a rough-draft from the rough-draft I made: Image:Atlas with Wikified Globe.png The continents look pretty cool raised up like that, but they don't stand out because the oceans aren't a different shade. The marble texuture doesn't work, because this is supposed to be a shiny gold metal trophy, not gold-colored rock. Stone texture could be used on our pedestal to great effect (not gold-colored though). The puzzle layer should be on top rather than covered up by the continents. I'd like the world puzzle-ized, without the black symbols. To do that you'd generally stack the puzzle globe layer on top, with its opacity reduced. Here's the puzzle globe with the symbols removed: Image:Wikipedia-logo-sans-symbols.png
Once the puzzle pattern is overlayed, Then the part of the sphere and continents that fill in the missing part of the puzzle globe need to be erased, to complete the puzzleglobe effect.
Image:Atlasgold and wikiglobe.png We can't use the above pic because it has the wrong lighting/shading on the globe, unwanted symbols, no layer data, etc. Not having layer data is the biggest problem, because we need to be able to swap these pics back and forth while retaining optimum manipulability. When the layers are merged, it makes the pics much harder to work with.
Some things that need to be cleaned up on Atlas are the water marks. (On his right shoulder and chest). It looks like you figured out how to remove those on your rough-draft above. You're also on the right track on making him look like shiny gold. The oversaturation needs to be corrected though. You're definitely better at this than I am. I look forward to seeing what you come up with next. The Transhumanist 20:46, 30 June 2008 (UTC) P.S.: For the globe, I think the most crucial part is the golden sphere that needs to be created to place the continents on. Be sure to keep each of its elements in their own layers, so that we can adjust them as needed. Here's an example in Inkscape's documentation.
Next Atlas finished!Latest version of Atlas! -- penubag (talk) 03:40, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Sorry, little delay but I found enough time to finish your request. Saturation was fixed through out the image, notably on the globe and his chest. I didn't change the chisel color because I couldn't color it right and also because I think it looks nicer silver. The continents are made of bronze, not gold, so perhaps bronze reflects light like the way it is. Please let me know what you think. -- penubag (talk) 02:23, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
Looking at the current atlas image still makes me squint (it's too bright). And it has a few other minor problems... It may help to see the prototype and the current beta side-by-side: Observations:
I know tweaking images is difficult, but we're getting closer as we go, and that's good. Keep up the excellent work. Won't be long now. The Transhumanist 20:24, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
As I said, my atlas is largely uneditable due to my poor editing habits. Now that I know what I'm doing, I can restart with atlas from scratch and do it just as you want it. Otherwise, I can do the things you requested above and have another draft by tommorrow. -- penubag (talk) 08:13, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
The raised map on the globe's edges are silver now, do you want a different color? -- penubag (talk) 01:25, 10 September 2008 (UTC) Next version of atlas doneI finished atlas! I remade the entire thing from scratch, this time preserving all the layers for editing ease. Let me know if there's something you want done. :) -- penubag (talk) 04:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I have completed your requests on the latest version above. (Sorry for the time delay). You can compare differences here: Image:Atlas trophy bronze.png with Image:Atlas v3.5.png. Let me know if there is anything else that needs fix'n :). -- penubag (talk) 10:10, 3 November 2008 (UTC) OK, let's take a comparitive lookYep, the newest one, at the far right is clearly the best. It's time for a round of outside feedback. I'll keep you posted. (Hmmm, I forgot Internet Explorer doesn't support transparent backgrounds. I'll test the image on Firefox when I get a chance.) The Transhumanist 22:46, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
touch upsOK, I think I figured out why peoples' eyes are playing tricks on them with respect to the oceans. The oceans are textured, and look like land masses, regardless of their color. The continents are smooth, and look more like bodies of water because of this. Can you reverse this? That is, give the continents some texture to make them look more like land masses? And smooth out the oceans? The Transhumanist 20:37, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
Astrohurrican has really picked the thing apart on my talk page. I've been staring at the image so long I didn't notice any of those! I've elaborated on his observations on my talk page. A careful comparison with the original image really helps to notice flaws. The Transhumanist 21:57, 7 November 2008 (UTC) Summary of changes
All done; I overwrote the preexisting file with the new one. This will take a minute to load but you can see the differences here and here old new. Let me know if you see something else. -- penubag (talk) 04:55, 7 December 2008 (UTC) Worthy of a TitanTesting default mode: Testing thumbnail mode: Testing frame mode:
Testing complete (here, and on my talk page - which has a different colored background): image has transparent background. Excellent. Penubag, you've nailed Atlas. He looks like he's made of solid gold. Fantastic job. Bravo! You've also nailed the continents. They obviously rise up out of the oceans. Nicely done. I did notice a few more things, mostly with the pedestal - unexpectedly the most difficult part of this project. Hopefully, this will be the last round of changes:
My guess is that the last task will be the toughest. When you are done, I'll be very interested in hearing how you conquered that one. Good luck. The Transhumanist 03:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
alt colorHonestly, I think the bronze looks better than jade but it's your call. How's the pedestal height? -- penubag (talk) 23:12, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
Alright, I finished the blue color. Does it look good? I overwrote the jade with the blue. I'll try to get to the sapphire if I have time. It'll be challenging but I'd like to give it a try. Let me know when the big event's taking place and fill me in on the details. I can hardly wait myself! -- penubag (talk) 01:27, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
mock up pedestalsleft|200px(also see my post above) Ok, here's a few quick mock ups. In 1, I used a semi-automated process to find the darker areas and change the color. In 2, I changed the color of the entire pedestal, and in 3, I manually selected one dominate color and changed it to be closer to the blue on both the glass orb and the original. The 'a''s are further editing I've done to each design that I though would go nice with atlas. 'b''s are the raw output, and orig is the unedited original pedestal. Which one looks nicest? I could combine a few or incorporate them so use this pic as reference. Also, remember that I can easily change the darkness, saturation, contrast, and hue of any of these or any color. These are just a quick slam to get started. -- penubag (talk) 04:31, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry for taking longer than I said I would, but here's atlas with a bluer pedestal. And really, do ask me if there is the slightest thing annoying you, I'll be quick to upload from this point forward.-- penubag (talk) 00:57, 12 March 2009 (UTC)
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Versions
Pedestal development
Which one looks the most realistic or attractive? Suggestions? I didn't remove the pedestal shadow from 3 (and the others partially), but you can imagine what it looks like. -- penubag (talk) 02:50, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Oooh, that globe looks nice. (It will have the puzzle pieces when finished, right?)
- Pedestal #2 is the closest color match. The others are more purplish than the globe.
- Lookin' good.
- And thank you for the speedy reply.
- The Transhumanist 03:00, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Yeah, the puzzle pieces will be there, I hid that layer by accident when I was hiding the others. Okay, so you've picked the color, now which looks the most realistic as a stone? The shadows and light spots should be just the right shades. I need your input here since I don't notice all the things since I created them. -- penubag (talk) 03:17, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Number 5 looks the glassiest / most crystal-like. And it has the least blotching at the top. I didn't even notice that until you made me look close. :) The Transhumanist 03:39, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- The blotches were supposed to be the shadow from a kneeling Atlas above. My excessive tone balancing screwed those up though it's not a problem. I half-attempted to remove the shadow from just 5 and 2 so that's why it has the least. You mention that 5 "looks the most glassiest/ crystal", and you seem to like that one. So should we stick to a crystal base or change into opaque? My original intention was to go opaque to accommodate for the new darker color, but the clearish crystal's fine (I actually prefer). But that means I should probably add Atlas' shadow back in. -- penubag (talk) 03:55, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
- Yes, clear looks best. And I think it looks better without the shadowing. I can't tell what shadows should be affecting the pedestal anyways, since it is clear and light is theoretically coming through it from the other side, so I doubt there would be any shadowing anyways. The Transhumanist 04:01, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I uploaded the next version of atlas, see him above! It's a 2 and 5 hybrid. Anything else you see itching you? -- penubag (talk) 08:56, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
- Bravissimo!
- It's done! It's awesome. I love it.
- Now we need to figure out the best way to apply all these awards you have created. :)
- The Transhumanist 20:05, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
- I'm thrilled that Atlas has gone live and am very glad to have undertaken this project. I have learned a tremendous amount in the process and am happy to have done so. I wish you luck with the outlining and geography development. I'll be a few clicks away if you'd need my help in the future, so don't hesitate to ask. -- penubag (talk) 02:33, 17 March 2009 (UTC)