User:Nick Moyes/mountains

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FAC notes

The Mont Blanc massif is one of the most well-known and heavily visited parts of the European Alps. (6 million visitors per annum) This article went through FAC in 2016, where all issues raised were addressed, especially structure/layout. However, it probably fell at the last hurdle as the progress appeared not to have been made sufficiently speedily, and the candidacy was archived. Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Mont Blanc massif/archive1

My action list prior to :

Print off PDF of article
List original concerns by NM - ticking off all those now addressed. (Are any actually still outstanding?)
Re-Assess topic arrangement against initial critique
Check all references still function
Check for updates esp UNESCO WHS application
Re-assess all image relevance.
Confirm definition of range.

Previous concerns by NM- to re-check I've addressed:

The article's structure is confusing, particularly in the history section - we start with a chronological account and then jump into a thematic organization, including subsections that are only sort of historical in nature. We also seem to be missing pieces of the story - for example, there's mention of plane crashes as an aside under Glaciers, but no mention of these anywhere in the history. Normally we'd expect to see significant events of this type described in the history narrative.
There's an overemphasis on tourism details throughout
The article is generally underlinked - many people won't know what "biotite mica" or "vascular plants" are
Tables can be hard to interpret. For example, what is your definition of "largest" in the Glaciers table? Where does the information under Observations come from? Conversely, details of climate data might be better presented in table form rather than as prose.
The article would benefit from a run-through for MOS issues - blockquotes shouldn't have quote marks, adjectival measurements should use hyphens, 'see also' shouldn't repeat links included inline, there shouldn't be spaces between footnotes, etc.
Images There are a lot of them, to the point that they're disrupting the layout and causing blank space
Some of them seem to be more 'artistic' than encyclopedic. For example, the ibex image is visually interesting but doesn't really give us a sense of what the full animal looks like.

File:Zentralbibliothek_Zürich_-_Vallée_de_Chamonix_Traversée_de_la_Mer_de_Glace_-_400017818.jpg: if the author is unknown, how do we know they died over 70 years ago? This is a 20th-century image so it's quite possible they did not France does not have freedom of panorama, so depictions of statues and buildings need to include details on the copyright status of the pictured thing as well as the photo itself

Sourcing: Spotchecks found a few instances of material not supported by cited sources. For example, I don't see mention of a pollution-reduction rationale in this source
Formatting is generally inconsistent - sometimes books include publisher locations and sometimes not, Further reading is hand-formatted while References are templated, some publication names aren't italicized when they should be, etc Daily Mail is not usually considered an RS.
You're using the URL of the website hosting the document cited in footnote 4 as the website parameter. This makes it show up as the italicized "work". In this case, I'd say "International Boundary Study" is a series and "Italy – Switzerland Boundary" is the title. All that website is doing is hosting an already published document. For all your cite web templates, you should use the title of the website rather than the URL of the website if that website really is the larger "work" in which the cited page is being published.

Points I had addressed post-feedback:

Two climate data tables created,
section re-structuring,
correct referencing and thinning-out of images.
Inevitably, for a high mountain range without permanent residents (apart from in the valley bottoms) creating a full historical narrative is not really practicable, so I have responded to concerns by adding a timeline of significant tragedies occurring across the range, which I hope helps address this. I excluded significant mountaineering accomplishments so as not to further expand the tourism / alpine climbing history any further, or straying into the domain of other articles.

Black Sail YH

BSYH is a mountain hut in the Lake District of England. It was formerly a shepherds bothy, but since DATE has been run as a youth hostel by the YHA. It is regarded as the most remote of all youth hostels, with no road access and requiring an x mile walk.

In INSERT YEAR it was revamped

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/the-northerner/2012/nov/21/black-sail-youth-hostel-ennerdale-lake-district
Chris Bonnington quote: "It's a simple, seemingly unremarkable shepherd's bothy set in the most remarkable position, surrounded by some of the country's greatest peaks". Ref: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/uk/even-the-himalayas-cant-compare-with-the-beauty-of-lakeland-825732.html

External link to architects revamp http://just-h-architects.squarespace.com/black-sail-hostel/kglnnq1hwafg7tojpseol8g3ssc16a

Graian Alps

Many wikipedia pages state that the mountains of the Mont Blanc massif fall into the Graian Alps. This is erroneous, and it is virutally impossible to find any non-wikipedia based sources which substatniate this. Indeed, the reverse is the case. Here are a few:

Chapter with Map of the Graian Alps. page^[1]

Emile Rey

Having been granted special permission 'in the interests of science' to cut short a journey with the Emperor William II Gussfeldt accompanied by Klucker and Emile Rey, two of the greatest guides of the period, and by Cesar Oilier as porter reached the summit of Mont Blanc on 16 August by way of the Brenva glacier, the Aiguille Blanche de Peuterey and Mont Blanc de Courmayeur. The expedition, which lasted for 88 hours, necessitated two remote bivouacs and a dreadful night 'in the cabane of the Rochers Rouges, packed together with 12 workmen' Article

""It is not the gain that leads me to the summits, it is the passion that I have for the mountain. I have always regarded the fee as a secondary thing in my life driving."^{[citation needed]}

In 1889 both peaks of the Dru were climbed for the first time from the Petit Dru to the Grand Dru by two parties. One party contained Katharine Richardson and guides Emile Rey and Jean-Baptiste Bich, and the other Mr Nash and Mr Williams with guides François Simond, Frederic Payot and Edouard Cupelin.[3] = Alpine Journal, 1888–89, vol. 14, 511–512 see also Walt Unsworth pp&g

External Links

French IGN map portal
Entry on SummitPost.org
Entry on CampToCamp.org
Entry on UkClimbing.com
Entry on Die Viertausender der Alpen

Infobox hut

{{Infobox hut
| name                     = 
| image                    = 
| image_size               = 
| image_alt                = 
| caption                  = 
| country                  = 
| state                    = 
| region                   = 
| admin_district           = 
| national_park            = 
| mountain_range           = 
| location                 = 
| place                    = 
| iso_region               = 
| latd                     = 
| latm                     = 
| lats                     = 
| latNS                    = 
| longd                    = 
| longm                    = 
| longs                    = 
| longEW                   = 
| elevation                = 
| built                    = <!-- {{Start date|YYYY}} -->
| owner                    = 
| url                      =  
| when_open                = 
| catering                 = 
| accessed_by              = 
<!-- The following fields are specific to European Alpine huts -->
| AC_hut                   = <!-- AAC AACZ AVS AGP ASAC CAF CAI DAV DAV/OeAV LAV NKBV ÖAK OeAV OeAV/DAV ÖTK PZS SAC SAT SPD TVN private -->
| type                     = [[mountain hut|hut]]<!-- [[inn]] / [[mountain hut|hut]] / [[bothy]] -->
| bedspaces                = 
| winter_room              = 
}}

Reference texts

Alps Project Template for Talk Pages

{{WikiProject Mountains|class=Start|importance=Low|alps=Yes|alps-importance=Low}}

The High Mountains of the Alps

<ref name=Dumler>Helmut Dumler and Willi P. Burkhardt, ''The High Mountains of the Alps'', London: Diadem, 1994</ref>{{rp|199}}

Add page number: <ref name=bookname />{{rp|199}}

The 4000m Peaks of the Alps

<ref name=Moran>{{Cite book|last=Moran, Martin.|url=https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/877308113|title=The 4000m peaks of the Alps : selected climbs.|date=2012|publisher=Alpine Club|isbn=978-0-900523-66-3|oclc=877308113}}</ref>{{rp|199}}

Pennine Alps Central (Collomb 1975)

<ref name=Collomb>Robin G. Collomb, ''Pennine Alps Central'', London: Alpine Club, 1975, p. ???</ref>

Pennine Alps East <ref>{{Cite book|last=Collomb|first=Robin|title=Pennine Alps East - Saas and Mischabel Chains|publisher=The Alpine Club|year=1979|isbn=900523131|location=London|pages=}}</ref>{{rp|123}}

Mont Blanc range. Vol. 1: (Collomb 1976)

<ref name="Collomb">{{Cite book|url=https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/25691643|title=Mont Blanc range. Vol. 1: Trelatete, Mont Blanc, Maudit, Tacul, Brenva;|last=Collomb|first=Robin|last2=O'Connor|first2=W.H.|date=|publisher=Alpine Club|year=1976|isbn=0900523204|location=London|pages=200|oclc=25691643}}</ref>

Mont Blanc Massif Vol 1 (Griffin1)

<ref name=Griffin1>{{cite book|last1=Griffin|first1=Lindsay|title=Mont Blanc Massif Volume 1|date=1990|publisher=Alpine Club|location=London|isbn=0900523573|accessdate=7 November 2015}}</ref>{{rp|199}}

Mont Blanc Massif Vol 2 (Griffin2)

<ref name=Griffin2>{{cite book|last1=Griffin|first1=Lindsay|title=Mont Blanc Massif Volume 2|date=1991|publisher=Alpine Club|location=London|isbn=0900523581|accessdate=11 November 2015}}</ref>{{rp|199}}

The Alpine 4000m Peaks (Goedeke)

<ref name=Goedeke>{{cite book|last1=Goedeke|first1=Richard|title=The Alpine 4000m Peaks by the Classic Routes|date=1990|publisher=Diadem Books|location=London|isbn=3763410074|edition=1st|accessdate=8 November 2015}}</ref>{{rp|199}}

Gaston Rubberfeet

<ref name=Rebuffat>{{cite book|last1=Rebuffat|first1=Gaston|title=The Mont Blanc Massif - The 100 Finest Routes|date=1991|publisher=Diadem Books|isbn=0906371392|edition=1974 English edition|accessdate=28 November 2015}}</ref>

Valais Alps East

<ref>{{cite book|last1=Swindin|first1=Les|last2=Flemming|first2=Peter|title=Valais Alps East:Selected Climbs|date=1999|publisher=The Alpine Club|isbn=978-0900523625|accessdate=6 March 2016}}</ref>

Valais Alps West (check date/ISBN against book)

<ref>{{cite book|last1=Swindin|first1=Les|last2=Flemming|first2=Peter|title=Valais Alps West:Selected Climbs|date=1999|publisher=The Alpine Club|isbn=978-0900523625|accessdate=6 March 2016}}</ref>

Moran Alps 4000

<ref>{{cite book|last1=Moran|first1=Martin|title=Alps 4000:75 peaks in 52 days|date=1994|publisher=David & Charles|isbn=071530268X}}</ref>

In Monte Viso's Horizon

<ref>{{cite book|last1=McLewin|first1=Will|title=In Monte Viso's Horizon|date=1991|publisher=Ernest Press|isbn=0948153091|accessdate=6 March 2016}}</ref>

Walliser Alpen

<ref>{{cite book|last1=Vaucher|first1=Michel|title=Walliser Alpen: Die 100 schönsten Touren|date=1983|publisher=Carta|location=France|isbn=3887310136|accessdate=6 March 2016}}</ref>

Baedeker's Switzerland

<ref>{{cite book|last1=Baedeker|first1=Karl|title=Switzerland (Baedeker's Switzerland)|date=1895|publisher=K Baedeker|location=Leipsic|edition=16|accessdate=6 March 2016}}</ref>

Tyndall's Glaciers of the Alps

<ref>{{cite book|last1=Tyndall F.R.S.|first1=John|title=The Glaciers of the Alps (Part 1)|date=1860|publisher=G. Routledge & Sons, Ltd.|location=New York|edition=New Universal Library|accessdate=6 March 2016}}</ref>

Chamonix Mont Blanc map (1:25,000).

<ref name=IGN-MB>{{cite map |title = chamonix - mont-blanc |map = 3630 ouest |map-url = |year = 1984 |url = |scale = 1:25,000 |series = Carte Topographique |version= |publisher= Institut Géographique National |edition= 2nd |location= Paris |language= French |isbn=}} </ref>

Saint Gervais les Bains, Mont Blanc map (1:25,000).

<ref name=IGN-SGlB>{{cite map |title = saint gervais les bains - mont-blanc |map = 3531 est |map-url = |year = 1986 |url = |scale = 1:25,000 |series = Carte Topographique |version= |publisher= Institut Géographique National |edition= 2nd |location= Paris |language= French |isbn=}} </ref>

Alpine Climbing grades

on the [[Grade_(climbing)#International_French_adjectival_system_(IFAS)|French adjectival climbing scale]], is graded at F+/PD-

USGS Glaciers of the World (this link Alps:Italian Alps)

<ref name=usgs>{{Citation | first1 = Rossana Serandrei | last1 = Barbero | first2 = Georgio | last2 = Zanon | author-link = | editor-last = Williams | editor-first = R.S. | editor2-last = Ferrigno | editor2-first = J.G. | contribution = The Italian Alps | contribution-url = | series = U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 1386-H | year = 1989 | pages = E39 | place = | publisher = U.S. Geological Survey | url = https://pubs.usgs.gov/pp/p1386e/alps.pdf | title = Satellite Image Atlas of Glaciers of the World - Glaciers of the Alps | doi = | ISBN= 0-607-71457-3 }}</ref>]]

on the French adjectival climbing scale, is graded at F+/PD-

possible new pages

Robert Wylie Lloyd (1868-1958)
Jean-Baptiste Bich
Jean-Pierre Cachat
Franz-Josef Andenmatten
Josef Pollinger
Giovanni Gnifetti
Gouter Hut

Dire stubs

Refuge Vallot ^[2]

Just some interesting links

8C.D.Cunningham

^ Ball, John (1866). The Alpine Guide Pt 1 - A Guide to the Western Alps. Longmans, Green & Co. pp. 142–144. Retrieved 14 February 2016.
^ West, John B. (1998). High Life: A History of High-Altitude Physiology and Medicine. New York: Springer. p. 75. ISBN 9781461475736.

[1] Ball, John (1866). The Alpine Guide Pt 1 - A Guide to the Western Alps. Longmans, Green & Co. pp. 142–144. Retrieved 14 February 2016.

[West-2] West, John B. (1998). High Life: A History of High-Altitude Physiology and Medicine. New York: Springer. p. 75. ISBN 9781461475736.

[1]

[2]