Template talk:People by nationality

Query

What does "Nationality is reflected by the occupation category" mean? Occuli (talk) 20:43, 13 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What does "Nationality is reflected by the occupation category" mean?
What does "The place of birth is rarely notable" mean? Does it mean "rarely relevant to nationality" or perhaps "cannot be assumed to confer nationality"? Occuli (talk) 15:20, 22 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (categories)#Residence:

Residential categories should not be used to record people that have never resided in that place. Nationality is reflected by the occupation category (above), not country or county or city of residence.
The place of birth is rarely notable.

--William Allen Simpson (talk) 11:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That is not sufficient reason to revert, because

You didn't address the question. You just brought the source. Which we all know. The problem is that that phrase is unclear.
You must be well aware of the fact that this phrase is under discussion there, since you have participated in that discussion yourself. Debresser (talk) 12:45, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Naming conventions (categories)#Residence is about residence, which is nothing to do with nationality. Occupation likewise is nothing to do with nationality. There is no Wikipedia:Naming conventions (categories)#Nationality because it is not generally regarded as needing any explanation. (David Beckham is in residence in LA; he has employment in the US and in Italy. He was born and brought up in London. He plays for England. He would be placed in 'English' categories based on sources which describe him as English, or because no-one is likely to think it is in any way controversial.) Occuli (talk) 16:20, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
In any case 'Naming conventions' is about naming, not about inclusion conditions. We can't have a template quoting misleading clauses from irrelevant parts of the wrong document. Occuli (talk) 17:02, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is becoming tedious. 'Nationality is reflected by the occupation category' means nothing to me, although English is my only language and I have no connections with Poland. How does someone being a footballer, say, reflect anything about nationality? Or do you mean that placing someone in 'French footballers' would suffice to persuade France to issue a passport to the person, thus circumventing an arduous procedure? 'Place of birth is rarely notable' - so what? Are you saying 'Place of birth is rarely relevant to nationality'? (This would be manifestly false.) Nationality is a straightfoward business and the first sentence covers it completely - there should ideally be a source stating what the nationality is, but if someone is born and brought up in Foo, then it is reasonable to deduce (without any controversy) that they are Fooish (or entitled to claim fooishness, represent Foo in competitions etc etc). What perceived danger is this verbose and intrusive template attempting to avert? Occuli (talk) 14:16, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]