Template talk:Interlanguage link

Cleanup template recommending the use of this needed

We need a cleanup template that could be used in cases were we have links in text to other language Wikipedias like here. _{Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here} 04:35, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

This might be reasonable, as the trend is definitely towards using {{ill}} over direct wikilinks (EGG etc), but it's not required so I'm not sure we should have a maintenance tag. At the moment there are about 114k pages that have direct interwikis, so that's another thing to consider. Primefac (talk) 14:07, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Some of those are wiktionary/mediawiki links, though. I think the real question is whether there maybe should be a guideline on not using direct links to other language wikipedias. I think there is at least an argument that utilizing this template allows for consistent formatting and for metadata on usage to be gathered. I've done two AWB cleanups that ran into the 30k page range, but implementing this kind of change would probably be a good bot task both as an initial implementation as well as routine monitoring and cleanup. VanIsaac, GHTV ^cont_WpWS 19:24, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

@Vanisaac "there maybe should be a guideline on not using direct links to other language wikipedias" I thought there is, but I could not find it. At least, as in, I'd expect MoS to recommend ill template over simple links somewhere. If it is not, should have start a discussion or RfC somewhere on this? I'd expect it to be reasonably uncontroversial _{Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here} 04:21, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

it already says at H:FOREIGNLINK: "The best practice is to use the template {{interlanguage link}} …". -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 04:42, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Since we've discussed this before, let's clarify to expressly state that all these nine options are feasible, which boils down to: both ill templates and direct interlanguage links are permitted. CapnZapp (talk) 13:31, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

Lots of things are permitted, but not best practice (ex. bare URLs). _{Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here} 02:51, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

Maybe you saw the notice at my talk page? Anyway, either something is permitted or it is not. There is no "shadow ban" on options here at Wikipedia - options that aren't outright discouraged/disallowed but where you still can reject them purely on procedural grounds. Either you have policy support for undoing an edit or you don't, and in this case policy permits all nine options. Regards CapnZapp (talk) 17:56, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

I don't see your point. Cleanup templates exist to direct editors to things that are better. We don't ban stubs, or many form of poor writemanship, but we have templates that tell editors they should try to do stuff better - de-orphan articles, add hyperlinks, format references, use infoboxes, whatever. _{Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here} 09:27, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

PS. And I have no idea what any talk page notice of yours has to do with this discussion. _{Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here} 09:28, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

The point was made by Primefac, edit dated 14:07, 12 June 2024. CapnZapp (talk) 20:49, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Who said it is a reasonable idea, and was not opposed to it. _{Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here} 06:45, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

In any case, I am fine with your proposal below. _{Piotrus at Hanyang| reply here} 06:46, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Let's make it a utility/convenience template and not formally a cleanup template. CapnZapp (talk) 18:12, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

When did the template stop requiring a version number?

It's been a couple of years since I used the template, but I swear it used to need a version number? Red Fiona (talk) 23:17, 2 August 2024 (UTC)

Version number? Primefac (talk) 11:07, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Of the page you are linking to. Like French page for foo | 123456. Which I think was the old example. Red Fiona (talk) 13:47, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Maybe you are thinking of Template:Translated page? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:49, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

That would make sense. As far as I am aware {{ill}} has never had any sort of version number parameter. Primefac (talk) 18:48, 3 August 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, yes I was thinking about that. Sorry for any inconvenience. Red Fiona (talk) 12:19, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

No worries, glad we could get it sorted out! Primefac (talk) 12:24, 4 August 2024 (UTC)

Avoiding circular redirects

What do we do when the article on enwiki is a redirect to the article that template:ill is being called on (and redirecting to the article itself, not a section) In that case the blue link is a circular redirect with seemingly no way to get rid of it. RachelTensions (talk) 02:21, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

Edit the article? (Meaning that I think that better than to spend the resources to code this template to account for every weird corner case, we instead simply leave it up to editors to remove/fix such instances. You don't have to link to what you're displaying, after all. To further the discussion please provide an example, thanks) CapnZapp (talk) 14:30, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

"Edit the article?" is unhelpful - obviously I'm trying to edit the article to come up with a solution.

Nelly Furtado previously had a blind, WP:ASTONISHING interlanguage link in the lead to pt:Nelstar... I'm trying to fix it so it's clear that it's an interlanguage link but when I use {{ill}} it results in a circular blue link because Nelstar Entertainment on enwiki redirects back to Nelly Furtado.

Right now I've removed both versions of the link, to avoid either a blind interlanguage link to Portuguese wiki, or a circular redirect with the {{ill}} template.

I find it hard to believe this is an obscure fringe case; one would think that there are a lot of articles that may exist in other languages that only exist on enwiki as a redirect to a broader parent article. RachelTensions (talk) 14:42, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for providing an example. You added "{{ill|Nelstar|lt=Nelstar Entertainment|pt}}" in a recent revision of the Nelly Furtado page. Do I understand you correctly in that the pt link is correct, but you dislike how the English link gets blue (because Nelstar is a redirect back to the article)? I had a hunch this had been discussed previously. First off, could you please read Template_talk:Interlanguage_link/Archive_3#Forcing_redlink_on_redirect_pages if you haven't already? (I'm not trying to derail you; only making an attempt at not rehashing already discussed issues) CapnZapp (talk) 15:32, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Nelstar Entertainment and Nelstar both result in a circular redirect regardless of which one is used.

So it seems like the changes to allow suppression of link were made in sandbox but not moved to production; I'll just manually link it with the small brackets for now and avoid use of this template. RachelTensions (talk) 15:38, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Update: The manual option suggested there ({{small|{{bracket|[[pt:Nelstar|pt]]}}}}) seems to just result in empty brackets for whatever reason so I'm not sure what the manual alternative is or what I'm messing up RachelTensions (talk) 15:46, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

[pt] But it seems to work here, but not in the article space... I'm confused to say the least. RachelTensions (talk) 15:47, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I fixed a small error over at Nelly's page, User:RachelTensions (Note the extra colon) CapnZapp (talk) 15:58, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

oh duh, thank you RachelTensions (talk) 15:59, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

(edit conflict) I guess I should expand upon this: As you hopefully agree after reading that archived talk, having ill automatically detect this is hard. Easier is to investigate if Nelstar or Nelstar Entertainment is a seldomly used redirect and have it deleted (so ill once more displays a red English-language link). Or possibly, hacking the ill to use a third definitely-showing-as-red article target (that still editors can understand should lead to an eventual Nelstar article): something like Nelstar Entertainment. Note how I just made up Nelstar (company) in the hopes it will remain red until article creation (as opposed to some good-faith editor adding yet another redirect back to Nelly Furtado). I guess you could propose adding a parameter to the template that basically says "yes, the link exists but please pretend it doesn't if it's only a redirect... that redirects back to here" but I honestly think it's asking too much for a template that's already resource intensive... (but I'm not the expert) Cheers CapnZapp (talk) 15:44, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

I'll just manually link it with the small brackets for now and avoid use of this template One solution would, of course, be for you to actually create the Nelstar article. Maybe the pt version is good enough at least for a stub? CapnZapp (talk) 15:47, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Vanity labels for one artist rarely meet WP:COMPANY and I doubt this one is any different, unless there are some plans to expand the label beyond just her (two?) albums. RachelTensions (talk) 15:50, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Oh absolutely. I didn't check whether Nelstar perhaps was an article once, but was later folded into the main Nelly page. CapnZapp (talk) 16:00, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Circular redirects and our documentation

I took a stab at alleviating this (apparently) recurring frustration by editing our documentation:

Template:Interlanguage_link/doc(edit talk links history)

Take a look and feel free to improve further. CapnZapp (talk) 16:26, 23 October 2024 (UTC)