Template talk:Campaignbox Normandy

Operation TOTALISE

It seems to me it was not spelled that way. The Official History of the Canadian Army in the Second World War has one mention of Totalise (in the index, probably a typo), but 73 throughout the text for Totalize. Likewise, Google shows 2,000 hits for "Operation Totalise" (in quotations - and many of those hits are simply mirrors of Wikipedia) but 4,800 for "Operation Totalize". I realize it is a valid British spelling, but it was a Canadian operation and I believe Simonds used the Canadian spelling - see Brian Reid's book NO HOLDING BACK for the most recent treatment of this battle.139.48.25.61 (talk) 15:24, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Italics

Is there any reason that Neptune and Luttich are in italics? I imagine there is, I just can't figure it out! Ranger Steve (talk) 18:03, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

No ideas, i would suggest a formatting error that should be removed. Perhaps when the italics were added around Lüttich it was to do with it being a German word?--EnigmaMcmxc (talk) 20:07, 10 December 2009 (UTC)

I've taken out the italics, and also removed the piped link to Neptune (I think leaving it as Normandy Landings is more helpful for reader navigation). D-Day might be a good alternative if a pipe is needed? EyeSerene^talk 08:33, 18 December 2009 (UTC)

Free French airborne landings

Don't want to get into an edit war but there were no Free French airborne landings this redirects to Operation Dingson. A operation by 178 members of the 4th SAS which was a Free French unit under British control. Its misleading to claim they were airborne landings, like the American airborne landings in Normandy and the British divisional Operation Tonga. Operation Dingson was also in Brittany and should not be in a template about the Normandy campaign. So if dignson is included it should be under that name to avoid confusion. --Jim Sweeney (talk) 20:03, 2 August 2010 (UTC)

On April 1944 in Scotland, Field Marshal Montgomery visited 900 Free French paratroopers and said them : The French will be the first in France during the invasion of Europe. The 4th SAS battalion (2ème R.C.P.) was included in operation Overlord and moved to Fairford airbase at the end of May.-- Marc DANIEL, Brittany, France 8:17 5 August 2010 -- —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.234.218.194 (talk) 08:18, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes all well and good but this template is sub headed Invasion of Normandy, the French were dropped into Britany, yes part of Operation Overlord but not part of the Normandy landings. With the same reasoning Operation Houndsworth and Operation Bulbasket should also be included as they were in France in June 1944. --Jim Sweeney (talk) 15:11, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Parts of Normandy landings because 100 000 German soldiers could not go easily from Brittany to Normandy. Railways, bridges, roads were attacked by Free French SAS and Maquis fighters. Trains and trucks were stopped often in Brittany. -- Marc DANIEL 15h30, 5 August 2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.234.218.194 (talk) 15:30, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

No. These operations were no more part of the Invasion of Normandy than the Italian Campaign which also pinned German divisions and prevented them being sent to North West Europe. Stephen Kirrage ^{talk - contribs} 19:26, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

I must dispute this assertion. The Italian campaign had far wider strategic aims than merely pinning down German units. The Americans and French admittedly drew substantial forces away from Italy to mount Operation Dragoon (the invasion of southern France), but the British generally and Churchill particularly always advocated defeating the Germans in northern Italy and moving across the head of the Adriatic into the Balkans. The various landings by French (and Belgian, if I recall) SAS units in Brittany were mounted specifically to draw German forces away from Normandy, partly by causing disruption in the German rear areas and partly by inciting large-scale revolts by the local Resistance. These operations would never have been launched in isolation; their purpose was entirely subordinate to the Normandy invasion. HLGallon (talk) 19:57, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Subordinate but were they part of the Normandy landings, given the two examples above which were also in France and started 6 June 1944, where do draw the line for part of Normandy of part of the wider Western Front. --Jim Sweeney (talk) 21:15, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

It must be remembered that the purpose of the Normandy landings was to liberate France, not Normandy. They took place in Normandy because the Allied planners determined it was the best place for any landing to succeed. The administrative status of Normandy as a French departement and its boundaries were irrelevant. Unlike some American historians, I do not support the view that the Battle of Normandy ended during at some point during Operation Cobra when some American units moved out of Normandy into Brittany. (They seem to forget that many if not most of them turned back into Normandy to take part in the fighting around the Falaise pocket.) If anyone were to write an article on the Allied air raids against the German lines of communication in France which preceded the landings, would it be excluded from the campaign box because most of the raids took place by design outside Normandy (or even outside France)? The line for the end of the Normandy campaign should be drawn in time as well as area, finishing with the capture of Paris and the final German withdrawal across the Seine. Operations intended to support Operation Dragoon in southern France (which incidentally is not called the Battle of Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur) or neither operation in particular should of course be excluded. I propose to restore the naval engagement off Ushant and the American and Free French capture of Paris as being part of Overlord even if they took place outside Normandy. The SAS operations such as the ill-fated Bulbasket may be consolidated into a list (if they have not already been) and also mentioned in the box. HLGallon (talk) 09:20, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Yes. The target of the operation Overlord was to be in Berlin before the Russians, before Christmas !! The Normandy landing was the first step only. But it was hard to win in Normandy (3 months). Marc DANIEL, Brittany, 15h01, 6 August 2010. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.234.218.194 (talk) 15:02, 6 August 2010 (UTC)