Talk:Zhou Tong (archer)/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

References

Please see [1] which also applies here since I am about to update the same citation in this article. Kind Regards, Keesiewonder 01:42, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Linked biographies

I've linked all mentions of Yue Fei's biographies from throughout the article back to the sections which describe them. This should cut down on reader confusion. (Ghostexorcist 21:28, 29 December 2006 (UTC))

Changes

I just made some huge changes to the page per a request from the WikiProject China peer review. I've combined the 'Yue Fei's Biographies' with the 'Background' sections. This way, it combines all info pertaining to Zhou Tong's personal life. I will elongate the lead paragraph later. And the 'Skills' section still needs work. (Ghostexorcist)

Hello, I did some styling changes. I think it may be better if you can use the template {{zh icon}} instead of (Chinese only). I think it looks better that way. I also did some formatting in the Skills section, mainly sorting them under section headers. See if you agree with it.

We can try nominate this for Good Article after the lead section have been complete with two paragraphs. Cheers! AQu01rius (User • Talk) 17:50, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. I'm glad to see that someone is approaching this with a fresh pair of eyes. I've been working on this page for so long that I've run out of ideas.(Ghostexorcist 18:53, 30 December 2006 (UTC))

Lead paragraph

I am only interested in digging for and then presenting the material in bulk. I admit my skill of ‘summarizing’ the entire page into a neat 3-4 paragraph lead is not very good. I would appreciate it if someone could do this for me. I've done the hardest part and found the info, now all you have to do is summarize it. Thank you in advance to anyone who attempts this! (Ghostexorcist 23:41, 30 December 2006 (UTC))

Suggestions

In the 'Names (details)" table, it might be preferable to put the "Known in English as" list after the "Cantonese", and something like "Literal Meaning" would be clearer than "Martial nickname" for Tei Bei.

The title Shuo Yue quanzhuan could be translated something like "Explaining/Telling the Complete/Full Biography of Yue Fei", cf. this.

Overall, this is an interesting article, but I see two questions. Do the copious fictional details overshadow the historical facts? Why are there so many red dead links? Best wishes. Keahapana 22:44, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for looking at my article. Yes, there is far more fictional material available on Zhou Tong than there is historical. I note that in the article. The red links are not dead, it just means that no one has written an article for them yet. I just opened the links just in case someone does. Thanks for telling me a better name for Yue Fei's fictional biography.(Ghostexorcist 23:58, 31 December 2006 (UTC))

Article length

This page is now a whopping 47 kb. The ‘non-binding’ page size limit as set by Wikipedia is 32 kb. Despite the fact that a large portion of the length comes from the extensive list of notes and references, I was thinking of cutting the size down by ‘cut and pasting’ some of the info into its own article, mainly the ‘skills’ section. The material here isn’t really that strong or lengthy enough and I'm worried that these problems might take away its "GA" nomination. However, I’m sure many of the few people that actually know about Zhou Tong would be upset if I didn’t include something about martial arts. So I could just make a link leading to the page about Zhou tong’s martial arts, end of story. What do you guys think? (Ghostexorcist 20:55, 7 January 2007 (UTC))

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That's what I did with History of Wing Chun.
JFD 21:21, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I made the change. The article looks a lot better. (Ghostexorcist 22:37, 7 January 2007 (UTC))

Moral Tale

I just added a moral tale from a Chinese children's magazine about Yue Fei learning archery from Zhou Tong. Since my Chinese sucks, I used an internet translator so I could read the story. And because the translator sucks, I changed some sentences around to make them more grammatically correct, while staying as true to the original story as possible. If anyone fluent in Chinese reads the Chinese version and sees some mistakes in my translation, please feel free to make corrections where needed. (Ghostexorcist 23:51, 8 January 2007 (UTC))

GA Status

I see nothing to stop this article from receiving a GA status. Meets all guidelines. Da54 23:14, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Please visit the candidate page and do it properly according to the instructions on passing. Thanks. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 23:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Just in case someone wants to come back here and change this article's rating again just because they think it was illegal, please follow this link to the Good article history log. You will see that it was passed. Please do not change ratings without discussing them first. (Ghostexorcist 21:17, 5 March 2007 (UTC))

I see a note saying that it wasn't passed properly, the article shows up on a list of articles that wern't properly passed, the review appears short and unhelpful, what am I supposed to think? I can't get them right all the time, there were plenty of articles on the list to go through Homestarmy 22:26, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Article size (once again)

The page is now a whopping 53 kb, even after I cut the huge martial arts section off into its own article. I've decided to move all of the Yue Fei bio stuff from the beginning to the Yue Fei page, which would free up a lot more space. The Yue Fei page is sorely lacking in background material on his early life anyway. Plus, I plan on adding more stuff to the Zhou Tong article about his own fictional biography. (Ghostexorcist 23:29, 28 January 2007 (UTC))

That didn't help very much. It only took 2 kb off. I may have to severe other sections into their own articles, possibly the "Storytelling" section. (Ghostexorcist 00:30, 29 January 2007 (UTC))

Sometime ago I cut Zhou's media references into it's own page, so the article is now a more manageable 39 kb. (Ghostexorcist 11:19, 11 May 2007 (UTC))

After new additions, it's now 47 kb and sure to grow. If I can gain access to more Yue Fei biographies, I might split the one section off that speaks about Zhou's references in Yue's bio into its own page. (Ghostexorcist 01:12, 6 June 2007 (UTC))

49kb. (Ghostexorcist 04:43, 7 June 2007 (UTC))

51kb. I've got well over 100kb of material on Zhou so far with his three articles combined. Since Zhou is a very obscure figure, it surprises me that the page is so large, but yet other pages with much broader or more popular topics can be so small. (Ghostexorcist 07:24, 7 June 2007 (UTC))

Too many quotes

I think I used way too many quotes when I originally built up the article. I have started to squish them paraphrase/delete said quotes into manageable paragraphs. It might take me a while before I'm done.

I will keep some large quotes if they are the ONLY mentions of Zhou in certain works or if they are important to the fiction or history.(Ghostexorcist 11:06, 31 May 2007 (UTC))

The page could still use some work, but I am happy with the changes and additions thus far. (Ghostexorcist 13:01, 31 May 2007 (UTC))

Now I am really really confused

There is an entire section called "Water Margin bandits". Yet the article clearly saids DO NOT confuse Zhou Tong the monk with the Water Margin character???? Benjwong 05:07, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

Because Zhou Tong, the Water Margin bandit, is different from this Zhou Tong. He was the tutor of Song Dynasty General Yue Fei. Legend states he was also the tutor of the Water Margin Bandits Lin Chong and Lu Junyi, but this is fictional. I think it is clearly explained in the article. (Ghostexorcist 10:57, 2 June 2007 (UTC))

Reformat references

I've been writing on this article for almost 2 years now, so it took me 6 hours to reformat page's references and do a little rewriting. (Ghostexorcist 04:41, 7 June 2007 (UTC))

History / Fiction - reformat page

I'm not sure if I'm going to do it or not, but I recently came across some historical material, backed up by modern works, that briefly touches upon Zhou's background and what his true purpose was as Yue's teacher. I'm thinking about splitting the page up into historical and fictional like the Guan Yu page. My main concern with the page right now is that the historical stuff is being drowned in the sea of fictional stuff. This way, I can present all of the historical stuff known about him, then present all of the fictional. So the two will be separate. (Ghostexorcist 00:04, 17 June 2007 (UTC))

I am currently reformatting the page in my sandbox. It took me nearly two years to piece the current article together, so it may take me a while to take it apart and put it back together. I may end up deleting the entire project and sticking with and rewriting the original page. (Ghostexorcist 22:48, 17 June 2007 (UTC))

I decided to keep the changes and just now saved the reformatted version on the main page. It is now 56 kb. (Ghostexorcist 07:56, 20 June 2007 (UTC))

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Zhou Tong (archer)/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Comment(s)

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Honestly, I don't usually give out A ratings unless I am pretty sure that an article will pass FAC. I'm sorry that I am not more familiar with this topic. I'm a little concerned about some of the sources used here. To what extent can we trust the biographies of Zhou Tong cited here? Are they classical works, or do they utilize modern scholarship? I'm not comfortable with moving the article up to A class. My advice would be to just take it to FAC if you are certain of the quality of the sources. Feel free to respond to my concerns here, and I may change it to A class after all.--Danaman5 22:17, 11 May 2007 (UTC) The majority of the sources I used are from modern day. There are only a few instances that I relied on classical works (mainly quotations), but they are supported by the modern works. There are no historical biographies of Zhou Tong. The only info we know about him comes from the biographies of his most famous student, Song Dynasty General Yue Fei. There is a much larger abundance of 'legendary' material about him. Most of the personal info about his life, family, and death comes from these legendary sources. If you need specific details about my sources, let me know. (Ghostexorcist 11:22, 12 May 2007 (UTC))

Substituted at 20:13, 26 September 2016 (UTC)