Talk:Yuri Panteleyev

Role in sinking Tirpitz

The text on Panteleyev's role in the sinking of the German battleship Tirpitz was incorrect. The British bombers only staged through northern Russia in the first of these attacks. The second and third were made by aircraft flying from Scotland, with the support of small numbers of reconnaissance aircraft operating from Russia. Nick-D (talk) 00:47, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Actually, from looking at this source (which is a RS as it's the blog of a reputable museum), it seems that Panteleyev was only involved in the first attack, which did not sink Tirpitz. The Historylib source in correctly states that the British bombers repeatedly operated from Russia - it's also unclear why it would be a reliable source. The hook is wrong. Nick-D (talk) 00:52, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Nick, sorry, I have to intervene here, give me a second. Spokoyni (talk) 00:58, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

As written I did not state that the airfields in northern Russia were used for the later attacks, nor expressed that the final sinking - Operation Catechism or Operation Obviate were launched from there or routed via there. That line was to describe the final fate of the Tirpitz. Perhaps that was confusing as it did not explicitly state that Russian airbases were not used. As you are doubtless aware though, the airbases were prepared to be used if neccessary during the later operations, and this was an ongoing operation that Pantaleyev was part of. Pantaleyev was rewarded for his role in the sinking, along with other Soviet personnel involved, as part of the Soviet contribution to the overall effort. The article did not and does not claim that he was awarded solely for Catechism, and nor does the hook. Spokoyni (talk) 01:08, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

While the northern Russian airfields were alerted for the second and third raids, they weren't actually used, so the hook does not accurately portray Panteleyev's role. The bad quality sources (I note the second Russian language source is from a high school's website, albeit an elite one) may have lead to this. Nick-D (talk) 01:49, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

The award was made for Pantaleyev's role as a whole. As to the Historylib source, its the online version of a published book, Skrytskiy's "Флагманы Победы. Командующие флотами и флотилиями в годы Великой Отечественной войны 1941–1945", which passes muster as a RS. It doesn't say that there were repeated operations from Russia - do you read Russian or are you using some sort of translation tool? I'm asking as I'm wondering if there is some translation error occuring. As written, the article read "the Tirpitz was anchored in Norwegian waters, with the distance involved making it hard for British aircraft to launch from British airfields, complete their bombing mission, and then return to their bases. Therefore it was decided that the British bombers should instead fly to airfields in the north of the Soviet Union following their raids, refuel and if necessary rearm, and then, if the Tirpitz was still afloat, attempt to bomb her again on their return to Britain. Panteleyev helped to make the necessary arrangements to make Soviet airfields such as Yagodnik, available, with Soviet navigators assisting in transferring aircraft, and carrying out reconnaissance." That I would hope you would agree is a fair summary of the lead up to Paravane. Then followed a summary of the fate of Tirpitz - "Tirpitz was damaged several times in Operations Paravane and Obviate, and was finally sunk in Operation Catechism on 12 November 1944." And finally quoting from Flagmen of Victory "In the winter of 1944/45, the head of the British military mission in Arkhangelsk awarded Panteleyev the highest order of Great Britain — the Order of the Bath — for participating in the destruction of the battleship Tirpitz." Spokoyni (talk) 02:01, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

The problematic word is "raids": there was only one raid staged from Russia. Nick-D (talk) 02:08, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

How would you like to see the hook reworded? Spokoyni (talk) 02:09, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

I've reworded the article to make it clearer on the organisation of the raids. Hopefully this addresses things somewhat? Spokoyni (talk) 02:17, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes, those edits are great. I'd suggest the hook be something like: ... that Soviet admiral Yuri Panteleyev was appointed a Companion of the Bath by the British for his role in supporting attacks against the German battleship Tirpitz? Nick-D (talk) 02:20, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

That works for me, and removes any confusion that it was solely for the operation that sank her, rather than the overall support he gave to the British operations. I'll suggest that at errors and it should be updated soon. Spokoyni (talk) 02:23, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

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