Talk:Words of Institution

Christianity: Eastern O. / Lutheranism Low‑importance

	Christianity portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by WikiProject Lutheranism (assessed as Mid-importance).

Oriental Orthodoxy

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Oriental Orthodoxy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles on the Oriental Orthodox Church on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Oriental OrthodoxyWikipedia:WikiProject Oriental OrthodoxyTemplate:WikiProject Oriental OrthodoxyOriental Orthodoxy articles
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the project's importance scale.

Does no one know

The lede states "words echoing those of Jesus himself at his Last Supper that, when consecrating bread and wine, Christian Eucharistic liturgies include". But what are those words? It seems to me they should be in the lede. How are these "words" different from the other words in the liturgy? Are there any Christian groups that omit these "words" from the Eucharist? Nitpyck (talk) 23:12, 18 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No one knows the precise "words that Jesus used, presumably in the Aramaic language, at his Last Supper. The formulas generally combine words from the Gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke and the Pauline account in 1 Corinthians 11:24-25", no two of which accounts are exactly alike, although the tenor is the same. Esoglou (talk) 09:42, 19 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Someone must know which words are considered "Words of Institution", whether or not they are the precise words actually spoken by Jesus if he actually existed, and this article should say clearly what they are. From the article - Take this, all of you, and eat it: this is my body which will be given up for you. Take this, all of you, and drink from it: this is the cup of my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant. It will be shed for you and for many so that sins may be forgiven. Do this in memory of me.

Which are Words of Institution which aren't? What other Words of Institution are added in other sects? If you go to the article on Equus Equus is a genus of animals ... includes horses, donkeys, and zebras. So why not the same detail for this article? I came to the article to find out what words of institution meant since I was unfamiliar with the term and the article is not as clear as it could be for someone who is not an Eucharistic scholar. Nitpyck (talk) 20:23, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I see that the words you were looking for were not, after all, "those of Jesus himself at his Last Supper". The article gives the Words of Institution in the Roman Rite. In the Armenian Rite they are: "Take, eat, this is my body which is distributed for you and many for propitiation and for remision of sins. Drink you all of this, this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for you and for many for propitiation and for remission of sins." Byzantine Rite: "Take, eat, this is my body which is broken for you for the remission of sins. Drink of this all of you: this is my blood of the new testament which is shed for you and for many for the remission of sins." Ethiopic (Anaphora of the Apostles): "Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you for the forgiveness of sins. Take, drink: this is my blood, to be poured out for you on behalf of many." And so on and on. Esoglou (talk) 20:57, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

With regard to your original second question, yes, there is at least one group that does not expressly have the Words of Institution, those who use the Holy Qurbana of Addai and Mari. But the article already contains that information. Esoglou (talk) 21:05, 25 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]