Talk:Wop/Archive 1

Archive 1

"Wop" as an ethnic slur

This usage of the term "wop" is pretty clearly regional, not universal within English, even within American English, so the incessant removal of all references to any other meanings given the term is mysterious to me. Is there really such a strong attachment to this term as an ethnic slur that there's no room for consideration of the undeniable fact that its use as anything else is prohibited mention here? Tomer^talk 07:33, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I always thought the term was aimed at mediterranean people and not just Italians? 194.193.170.84 13:10, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Meta-arguments of opinions and racist ramblings collapsed in leiu of deletion. No encyclopedic info here.

Are there citations to back this up? I recently saw a History Channel Documentary on Ellis Island and immigration, and they claim that Wop DOES stand for "With Out Papers," and from what I know, I know the History Channel to be fairly spot on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.228.140.86 (talk) 06:00, 4 October 2007 (UTC) The History Channel has its share of historic revisionism..far from spot on ! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.53.37.89 (talk) 22:33, 8 January 2008 (UTC) I took a trip to Ellis Island and I was assured that it was not used as a stamp on Italian passports. Further if it was used for such then it was used for all immigrants. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.248.2.55 (talk) 07:26, 30 December 2011 (UTC) Those without papers prior to 1921 were logged with 'wop' and allowed entry ... duh! After 1921 they were turned away! That's what's wrong with wikipedia, any idiot can rewrite history! WOP - Without Papers/Passport. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.165.153.58 (talk) 17:17, 28 August 2008 (UTC) If that's the case, how come it came to be associated with Italians? Were they the only people who got in 'without papers'? Seems doubtful. The 'guappo' explanation sounds more plausible. There are 'backronyms' all over the place (like the preposterous 'ship high in transit') and this seems like one. 86.128.47.6 (talk) 23:22, 26 September 2008 (UTC) Al Martin Scorsese suggested on the audio commentary on Goodfellas that WOP meaning Without Passports was especially relevant with Italians as those from Sicily and other parts of the south had a very low status in Italy, and thus were most likely not to have any official documents. Then again, another idea I've heard is that WOP came from turning POW around - less likely if it was in use before WW2, but perhaps all 3 ideas have blurred into one (largely negative) image over time?--MartinUK (talk) 20:06, 9 February 2009 (UTC) Minor correction to main article: —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.246.73.8 (talk) 09:22, 27 January 2009 (UTC) The picture and caption used in this article seem highly inappropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.78.60.231 (talk) 15:44, 6 November 2009 (UTC) I would like to know who is putting out such bad mis-information. My grand-father came over from Italy just after WW I and I have seen his immigration papers stamped with WOP in large bold red letters. He was very proud of those papers because he could show all us "kids" what he overcame. He landed with less than 50 cents to his name and within 10 years owned his own embroidery business. I remember going into his office and seeing his immigration papers framed and hanging on the wall behind his desk for everyone he did business to see. I AM VERY PROUD TO BE THE GRANDSON OF A WOP.....GET THE STORY RIGHT OR GET OFF LINE!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Goofy59 (talk • contribs) 08:24, 18 August 2010 (UTC) on an episode of modern marvels on the history channel that discussed the statue of liberty and ellis island, they claimed that the slur "wop" originated from the era of mass immigration to america from europe, and it is an acronym for "without Papers." they also claimed that the term 'kike' has a similar origin... people's jackets were marked with a symbol for their religion - christians got a cross, and jews got a circle; they claimed the yiddish (i assume) word for circle is kikel, and so jewish people became known as kikels, or kikes. i haven't done any research into this myself, but it seems plausible. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.250.125.204 (talk) 12:44, 8 July 2011 (UTC) Actually, the term WOP is used as a slur for any immigrant from Eastern, Northern, Central, or Southern Europe. I use it mostly for slavic peoples myself and is generally understood to be a slur for Polish, or other kinds of slavic peoples. Italians are usually called Greasers, Guineas or Daigos, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.187.248.55 (talk) 20:12, 18 July 2011 (UTC) YOU ARE ALL LIARS, A WOP HAS A WOP OF HAIR ON THEIR THEIR HEAD AND NOT AS HOW A WHITE MAN OR BLACK MAN HAS A MOP OF HAIR ON THEIR HEADS, THEY ARE FROM ITALY AND ASIA AND MOST FRICKING ASIA, WOP IS A MILITARY TERM FOR FOR ANY PERSON WITH THICK STRAIGHT BLACK HAIR, LIKE AMERICAN INDIANS AND OTHER ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS FROM FORGIEN LANDS,(PLEASE LEAVE) DO NOT LET A BUNCH OF NEO-COMMUNIST LIARS SCREW YOU ON THE DEFINITION OF THIS WORD, WOP. TO BE A LAW ABIDEING LIBERAL YOU WOULD HAVE TO KNOW WHAT A WOP IS AND A WOP IS A PERSON WITH THICK STRAIGHT BLACK HAIR. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.173.37.120 (talk) 20:57, 15 July 2013 (UTC)

Discussion from top of page

Removed "without papers" reference. Urban Dictionary is not a source. Even less is it a source of anything period. Although it is certainly possible that this was a source of the term, there is absolutely Zero documentation for this origin, no citation to any authoritative or historical usage given. Maghnuis 04:10, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Wop was used as a term for any labor "that did not matter" in the beginning of the 20th century. If they got wopped — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.248.0.178 (talk) 10:40, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

The term WOP does mean with out papers. I know some history revisionists are trying to claim that it doesn't but it does. Many Italian immigrants arriving did not have proper documentation of their citizenship, so the term WOP was dubbed. The idea that the term has its roots in the Italian term guappo lacks credibility as it is unlikely that Italians would use a word to disparage all Italians, and Americans in New York in the early part of the century, where and when the term originated. Immigrants to America were asked to provide their documents upon arrival to America, prior to 1921, as this link from Ellis Island proves. As such I am going to edit the article, where it says that documents weren't needed. http://www.ellisisland.org/genealogy/ellis_island_history.asp --70.30.71.161 (talk) 21:48, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

"The term WOP does mean with out papers." Citation needed. 108.71.134.43 (talk) 20:38, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Miriam Webster is definitive. There is no question about that. Enough of the revisionist racist bullshit. The Dissident Aggressor 16:15, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Reliable sources

...remain a concern. The above reflects the tendency to discuss this based on personal experiences. I've most recently reverted a series of edits which reconfigured the article to say that the term is derived from a positive intent, and that only the ignorant understand it to be negative. Users can not add unsourced content, or text based on personal conversations, and expect said content to remain. Definitions of the word from multiple reliable sources confirm the word's primary usage. Anything that may be added to further illuminate the topic is always welcome, with reliable sources. 76.248.147.199 (talk) 01:41, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

The Oxford American Dictionary (2009), for example, gives us:

Wop: noun informal offensive. ORIGIN early 20th cent. (originally U.S.): origin uncertain, perhaps from Italian guappo ‘bold, showy,’ from Spanish guapo ‘dandy.’a contemptuous term for an Italian or other southern European.

To support your arguments however, you will need to cite several reliable dico sources. As the article is about the word, any differences reported in various dicos can be mentioned in the article. It would be better than attempting to prove just one point of view or another, and would make the article more interesting. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:29, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

The Oxford American can be added as a source, though it appears to vary but slightly from what's there so far. The above hardly constitutes an argument, nor am I interested on proving a point of view: one is attempting to follow guidelines for reliable sources, as opposed to allowing for original research and POV. Any reliably documented content that would add complexity to the term's use and meaning is welcome. 76.248.147.199 (talk) 15:09, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

I came here wondering if it was of Polish origin, as I saw that the Polish work chłop (pron. "hwop",) means "peasant" and that seemed very interesting to me. Maybe the Polish word comes from the US source, but I don't know. 80.175.156.130 (talk) 11:37, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

Cleanup

I have cleaned-up the first paragraph, which had a number of poorly written sentences, and some dangling clauses. The paragraph now alludes to the "WOP" etymology first (it's pretty commonly held, right or wrong), but also notes the "guappo" etymology as well. Please note that I have removed the reference to Dictionary.com after the WOP etymology, since Dictionary.com does not, in fact, subscribe to that etymology as far as I can see. Someone who wishes to support that etymology with something substantial (the History Channel is NOT substantial) should do so, if it can be done. Doug (talk) 17:33, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

First uses in English

Partridge's Dictionary of Slang and Unconventional English says 1924. ☆ Bri (talk) 03:34, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

The OED gives this quote from 1912: "[1912 A. C. Train Courts, Criminals & Camorra ix. 232 There is a society of criminal young men in New York City... They are known by the euphonious name of 'Waps' or 'Jacks'. These are young Italian-Americans who allow themselves to be supported by one or two women... They form one variety of the many gangs that infest the city.] " followed by another from 1914, and one from 1915 by PG Wodehouse.

I'm not sure where Webster's gets their 1908 quote, but it's not far off from the OED's 1912 example.

I don't think we make any mention of the alternate spelling 'wap' from the example above. It is consistent with the theory that wap or wop is a phonetic spelling of guappo pronounced wah-po. I have some more slang dictionaries I could dig around in to see what they say. --Dennis Bratland (talk) 03:51, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Not surprising that the OED's research is better. Also you might like to know when I was looking this up, I found "baywop" was or is a Newfoundland expression in which "Wop" was short for "WASP". Sort of the inverse of this meaning, which is unusual. This is mentioned at Talk:Newfoundland outport but they didn't seem to find the same source I did. ☆ Bri (talk) 04:12, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:WOP (disambiguation) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:02, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Petition for removal

Let's get rid of pages like this. Is there a page for "nigger"? "chink"?

Actually, yes. WP:UNCENSORED. Vaselineeeeeeee^★★★ 14:16, 16 April 2021 (UTC)