Talk:William Halsey Jr.

Changes

Removed 'returned to the combat zone' because it never mentioned him leaving it (previous sentence discussed Battle of Leyte Gulf. DJ Clayworth 16:02, 5 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Before I make changes here, am I the only person to read Samuel Elliot Morrison's A Short History. . . and noted that the nickname "Bull" is exactly that? The only people that called him "Bull" were the press, and they didn't have the courage to do it to his face. His nickname was "Bill," for goodness sake. TDKozan 08:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Certainly the reason quoted for the alleged nickname is wrong (It was a misquote of "Bill") and would be beter if it was revised. Nigel Ish 21:15, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

William Halsey's flag ship was not the USS Missouri. It was the New Jersey. The surrender was signed on the Missouri because it was a new addition to the fleet and was named after the home state of President Truman. Tcarsonmclean 19:47, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Note that the info box has been trashed and there is a template reference at the very beginning of the article. I don't know how to fix this--can anybody help?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.23.160.193 (talk) 20:57, 3 December 2009 (UTC) (This seems to be taken care of as of 1/1/2010, not sure if it "fixed itself" or if someone was able to fix it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.56.175 (talk) 05:42, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

Post War

Hi:

I may be completely out to lunch, but I seem recall reading that he and a lot of his friends spent a lot of effort and column inches after the war explaining some of his more difficult to explain decisions; and in putting a stick in Spruance's wheel. I don't know if it's true, so perhaps someone who knows more about the period could say and cite sources if needed.

--- I don't recall anything about criticism of Spruance--the two of them had known each other since WW I and were good friends, in fact Halsey recommended Spruance as his replacement for the Midway operation when he (Halsey) was hospitalized. However Halsey did go a bit out of his way, post-war, to criticize Kincaid's conduct at Leyte Gulf. Kincaid was quite hurt by the criticism. I believe I read this in Hanson Baldwin's "Battles Lost and Won;" could look it up if there is any interest. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.252.120 (talk) 02:14, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

---

New topic:
Mention is made of one of Halsey's descendants. I had added to the Trey Spruance page a note that he is Halsey's great-grandson; the self-proclaimed owner of that page reverted it, says it wasn't relevant. Any thoughts on the propriety of adding to this (Halsey) page a statement about Trey Spruance being a descendant? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.6.252.120 (talk) 02:20, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

---

I think your memory is playing you false. I think you may have meant Nimitz, and not Spurance. As I recall: it was after WW2 that Halsey's supporters and friends (as I recall) that got into a subtle campaign to promote the evaluation of Halsey as the great hero of WW2 and thus would have been around the time that it really began to sink just how the US became the dominant power -basically the US hegemony was won at the battle of Midway- and Congress voted to give Nimitz a lifelong pension, the war for column inches and credit in the history books began to emerge. (Basically, success has many fathers and everyone wanted a piece of the glory in the 1950s. This was parodied by a comedian named Spike Milligan's memoirs of a do-nothing infantryman: Hitler: My Part in His Downfall.)

How much of this attempt to write the history books was Halsey (who had his faults and missed opportunities) and how much this was his friends who may have felt they were just doing the right thing, may make for an interesting but minor addition to the post-war legacy section of the bio article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.176.4 (talk) 15:30, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Shingles

Reason replaced at Midway - We say psoriaisis here and shingles on the Ray Spruance page —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.136.9.193 (talk) 00:00, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Neither is correct. See below.Gunbirddriver (talk) 01:54, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Then all of the pages need to be updated with the correct information. Pick some verbiage and add some to refute shingles and other skin disorders that have been referenced in his bios elsewhere. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.95.150.205 (talk) 22:41, 14 April 2011 (UTC)

First off, I do not know what condition the admiral suffered from. The description is of a life long skin condition that caused significant pain, to the extent that he could not sleep, and that resulted in a great deal of weight loss. Psoriasis is life long, but it is a wax and waning non-painful plaque type skin disease that may be unsightly but is not at all debilitating. He would not have pain, he would have no trouble sleeping, he would not lose weight. Shingles can be quite painful. The lesions may last weeks, and one can have persistent pain in the area of the outbreak, the post-herpetic neuralgia that may last months, but shingles is not a life long, recurrent, wax and waning condition. One would have an outbreak and then the outbreak would resolve. As I said below, my best guess would be an atopic dermatitis that was exacerbated by stress, but that is simply a guess based on the description of the symptoms and without ever seeing the lesions. The verbiage "A debilitating chronic skin condition" appears to be the best answer available for now. If you would like to replace the various pages you mention with that then by all means do so. Gunbirddriver (talk) 04:09, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

In the 2019 Midway movie, they clearly state Shingles. I had never heard that. Add to above Shingles requires person had Chincken Pox as a child Wfoj3 (talk) 22:54, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Leyte

Reworked this section to bring it in line with both the article in WP and what actually happened. It read like a Halsey victory when it was far from.--Lepeu1999 19:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Citations

Nice work by Ed in updating the article, but there are virtually no sources cited.--Lepeu1999 (talk) 15:45, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I checked the edits that I made, and nothing I did eliminated cited material -- in fact, the large majority of what I did was pure copyediting, layout adjustment and so on: I basically moved material around and smoothed it out rather than deleting or adding substantive material. When I did add factual material, it was all related to films, and the data all came from IMDB, which I believe is ref'd already. I'll check -- if not, I'll add it. Otherwise, nothing I did really effected citable stuff. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) ^{(talk / cont)} 01:25, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

"Bull"

The question has come up of whether or not to include "Bull" in the lede as part of Halsey's name, the argument being that Halsey himself not acknowledged this name or answered to it. I don't dispute this to be the case -- as an Admiral in war time, it's unlikely that anyone would call him by a name he didn't like -- and yet "Bull" Halsey is definitely a recognized name for this historical figure. As I mentioned, there are 28,600 Google hits for "Bull Halsey" and 56,200 hits for "Bull" and "Halsey" together. The very list of nicknames of military figures that been added to the "See also" list acknowledges that "Bull" is a nickname for Halsey, albeit one he didn't use.

It's pretty irrelevant that Halsey didn't use the name or answer to it, it's a nickname which is firmly attached to him, which is why we have a redirect to this article from "Bull Halsey" that was created in 2004. I think that the name ought to be in the lede. If the objection is that it shouldn't be in the full name, I can see that. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) ^{(talk / cont)} 01:50, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Evidence from a reliable source - these listings from the New York Times archives, dispatches from the Pacific War, which consistently refer to him as "Admiral William F. (Bull) Halsey". Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) ^{(talk / cont)} 02:15, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I would point out that the compromise currently in the lede - of having the reference to "Bull" be separate from the subjects full legal name, is the same as employed in the article on Arthur "Bomber" Harris. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) ^{(talk / cont)} 02:51, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, Evan Thomas's book, Sea of Thunder, apparently has some background on the nickname:

'Though Halsey claimed his nickname "Bull" had been bestowed by newspapermen, in fact he had been dubbed "Bull" by fellow officers for his conquests ashore. Carnes Week’s son Carnes Jr., a Marine corporal, was invited to have drinks with Halsey at the St. Francis Hotel during a home leave in 1944. "When he partied, he really let himself go," Weeks recalled. "He always had a Marine guard outside his door, and I was asked to stand guard there that night. Inside, I could hear them down on all fours barking like a dog with this nice lady who was his friend for the evening."' — http://www.spout.com/blogs/puhnner/archive/2007/10/29/21260.aspx

—WWoods (talk) 06:53, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I thought I had added that info to this article - but maybe it was to The Gallant Hours. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) ^{(talk / cont)} 08:16, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

That's where I found the link. —WWoods (talk) 16:55, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

<--I deleted because it's not a nickname Halsey himself ever recognized or answered to (or so said Morison, IIRC). The fact 20K+ Google hits come back with it only show how widespread the bull is. We should not be perpetuating fiction, no matter how popular or well-known. (And his barking like a dog makes damn all difference to the accuracy of the nickname, absent it being a reliable source how he got it.) Trekphiler (talk) 09:54, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

The point really is it doesn't matter if Halsey used it, because other people did to refer to him, including contemporaneous dispatches from the NY Times. This is biography, not hagiography. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) ^{(talk / cont)} 10:00, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Decorations

It seems that Halsey has more decorations on his uniform than are listed in the actual article. Just curious if there is a reason for that, or are the ones he has on his uniform in '45 unknown at this time? I recognize his parachute wings but how would he get them, being in the navy his entire career? Are there things missing in his biography or are those the wrong wings? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Itchy01ca (talk • contribs) 21:29, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

The Navy has parachute wings of its own. Not sure from the pic if they are they Navy ones or if he's wearing ones from another service. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.166.63.251 (talk) 02:51, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Those are not parachute wings, they're Naval Aviator wings.Weloytty (talk) 12:45, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

DISPUTE ENTRY: I re-did the decorations section according to information from http://www.history.navy.mil/bios/halsey-w.htm but the page, along with this Wiki page, does not match his uniform in the color image. I think we need to dig a little deeper here and find out his actual awards. Evan.oltmanns (talk) 05:21, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

I added the two ribbons to the decorations section and these are the ones shown in the image . These are: On the bottom left, the Order of the British Empire (he received the Knight Commander of the British Empire as listed in http://www.history.navy.mil/bios/halsey-w.htm); and in the bottom center, the Order of the Savior from Greece (now called Order of the Redeemer). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.48.109.157 (talk) 15:48, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

The National Defense Service Medal shouldn't be included on his decorations list. This medal wasn't authorized until the early 1950's, and served to replace the American Defense Medal. I think that the medal after the American Defense Medal may be the American Campaign Medal, awarded during the Second World War. Also looking at the photo, the last ribbon looks very similar to a Philippine Presidential Unit Citation ribbon. Any thoughts? Concerns in making those changes? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.252.15.222 (talk) 18:43, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

Order of the British Empire

I removed the post nominal letters GBE, referring to his honorary status as Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the British Empire, from the introduction of this article as Mr. Halsey was not closely associated with the United Kingdom in the sense required by the Manual of Style for biographies. The full style guidelines for the use of post nominal letters can be viewed here: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (biographies)#Post-nominal_initials. TrufflesTheLamb (talk) 20:25, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Good idea, considering nobody in the U.S. knows what "GBE" means, anyway.71.221.64.172 (talk) 22:51, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Dates Conflict

You report that Admiral Halsey graduated from the United States Naval Academy in "1904".

The link to "Seven Society" which you report that he belonged while at the Academy, you report was not founded until "1905", after he had left the Academy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Docent62 (talk • contribs) 15:43, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

Fixed. Bull Halsey does not strike me as the secret society type. Will return the "Seven Society" mention if a reliable reference can answer the problem with dates and can show that he had signed up to be a member of the secret society. Gunbirddriver (talk) 01:44, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

True, since the Seven Society was founded in 1905, Halsey could not have been a member while a student at the University of Virginia, as implied, or at the Naval Academy. He could, however, have become a member later as the Seven Society did not require members to be students or alumni of UVA. Venqax (talk) 18:45, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

POV

"Earlier, he had commanded the South Pacific Theater during desperate times." Desperate for whom? -- PBS (talk) 10:25, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Skin condition

There are a wide range of comments in various sources on the skin condition that Halsey had. Clearly it waxed and waned, was present throughout his adult life, could be very painful, caused loss of sleep and significantly debilitated his health. This is definitely not a description of psoriasis. It is not a description of shingles. An atopic dermititis exacerbated by stress is the best answer from the description available. We should not claim it to be shingles or psoriasis without a very reliable source that understands medicine. I would think that describing it as a debilitating skin condition is the best answer for now. Gunbirddriver (talk) 01:51, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

IJN aviation

WTF is "IJN aviation?" This is jargon. Please either spell it out or use a different term.71.221.64.172 (talk) 22:18, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

The aviation branch of the Imperial Japanese Navy. Like their carrier planes. The opposite number of US Naval Aviation, ss opposed to Army or independent Air Force ground-based aviation. Venqax (talk) 17:08, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Big Blue Fleet

Hello - With the new note (thank you) on the "Big Blue Fleet," the blue fleet would seem then to include Kinkaid's 7th Fleet (aka MacArthur's Navy). Is it now too expansive a term to use? Thoughts? JMOprof (talk) 12:19, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, it is a general term commonly used in the 1941-42 Navy for the fleet that was building and with which they expected to win the war. It was the fleet based in Pearl, and when it came into being it was the 5th Fleet or the 3rd Fleet, depending on the command. It did not include those naval assets of the 7th Fleet in the southwest Pacific, nor naval assets operating in the Atlantic, though ships transferred back and forth between these commands.Gunbirddriver (talk) 19:50, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Assessment comment

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:William Halsey Jr./Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

William Halsey's flag ship was not the USS Missouri. It was the New Jersey. The surrender was signed on the Missouri because it was a new addition to the fleet and was named after the home state of President Truman. Tcarsonmclean 19:42, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 19:42, 26 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 10:39, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Why 5-Star Promotion

Some discussion of why, exactly, Halsey was promoted to 5-star rank (Fleet Admiral) is in order. He and Omar Bradley were the only 5-star promotions that took place in peacetime. Five-star ranks were legally specified as wartime-only ranks, so special acts of Congress were needed to do this. In Bradley's case , the reason was one of protocol-- he became the first Chairman of the Joint Chiefs at a time when some 5-stars from the war were still on active service and would be subordinate to him legally. Even those raised to 5-star rank during the war were done in relation to their positions. But in Halsey's case, I don't think he even had an active command when he was promoted in 1945, 3 months after the war had ended. Why was he made a Fleet Admiral? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Venqax (talk • contribs) 16:29, 28 April 2019 (UTC) Politics - maintain a equal number of 5 star flag officers between the Army and the Navy. Wfoj3 (talk) 22:57, 11 November 2019 (UTC) But they were not equal in number. Even with Halsey, there was still 4 Army and 3 Navy 5-stars. Venqax (talk) 22:39, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

The reference I am just about to attach at the end of this note, taken from Fleet Admiral (United States), says that four "five-star ranks" were each given to the Navy and the Army at the end of the war. "Three were easily chosen: Leahy, King, and Nimitz". King had to nominate to the Secretary of the Navy a fourth, either Halsey or Spruance. Halsey got the nod. (Buell, Thomas (1974). The Quiet Warrior: A Biography of Raymond Spruance. Boston: Little, Brown and Co. p. 435-6. ISBN 0-316-11470-7.).Buckshot06 (talk) 05:24, 24 May 2020 (UTC)