Talk:White wagtail

Images

The birds from the pictures in the article look like they've been deliberately made to look outside the article, instead of inside. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.123.114.16 (talk) 14:46, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

I've just uploaded a picture of a Pied Wagtail, taken in Clifden, Ireland. You might be interested for these aricles. [[1]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chgans (talk • contribs) 17:05, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

White Wagtail (3 votes) wins collab for May-June 2008

Nominated March 30, 2007;

Support:

1. Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
2. Jimfbleak (talk) 06:09, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
3. Shyamal (talk) 05:17, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

Comments:

• One of my favourite birds when I started birding, and still one of the most cheerful little bleeders out there. If you're sick of wagtails you're sick of life. Also widespread distribution, about a million and one images, and currently not much more than a list of races. Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:52, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

• I'd go with this. I was going to nom European Robin, but that's well on the way, and perhaps could be an unofficial ongoing project? Jimfbleak (talk) 06:09, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

To do list for Colab

Pretty much the usual.

1. Missing sections - Lead, Behaviour, (Breeding, Diet and feeding), Morphology (or description), Relationship with humans.
2. Image reduction.... toooo many at the moment. We have lots of great images of different plumages for different subspecies and it would be good to work these into discussions of taxonomy and morphology. We don't need images of related species here.
3. Related species - we don't need a list or a subsection, we perhaps need a sentence or two in taxonomy.
4. Distribution - this should made into a list at the bottom and renamed ==Subspecies==, making it like the list of species at the end of a family or genus article.

What else? Sabine's Sunbird talk 01:13, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Removed

=== Related species === Following species are not subspecies of Motacilla alba but these are thought to have some relation about it.

Motacilla grandis - Japanese Wagtail

Japan (Hokkaido, Honshu, Shikoku, Kyushu)

Motacilla samveasnae - Mekong Wagtail

Laos、Cambodia、Thailand (around downstream of Mekong)

Motacilla madaraspatensis - Large Pied Wagtail

= M. maderaspatensis

India, Pakistan

Motacilla aguimp vidua - African Pied Wagtail

Central and Southern Africa

Motacilla aguimp aguimp - African Pied Wagtail

South Africa (around the Cape of Good Hope)

This can get made into sentences and moved back at some point. Sabine's Sunbird talk 05:00, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

References

thoughts

1. Is it worth tabulating the ssp? Either as a straight table (eg Common Treecreeper), or with the images included where available (see List of Anuran families)
2. I assume "further reading" goes?
3. Please can we use Mos reference formats. With only six refs, already three do not conform

Jimfbleak (talk) 05:57, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Lets keep further reading for now; it is a good source to help us find refs. Once we've gotten teh article well underway we could remove it. Alternatively, move it here and we can keep it as a resource. Sabine's Sunbird talk 21:34, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

With redgards to the subspecies list, it perhaps should be treated like the subspecies list in Peregrine Falcon? As well as distribution and migration notes it could also have info on plumage differences. Sabine's Sunbird talk 02:39, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Well, yes, but that still leaves the choice of unbulleted list (Peregrine), bulleted list, table, or table with images. Jimfbleak (talk) 05:30, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I've started a table, comments please, and I'll either revert or continue Jimfbleak (talk) 09:07, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

No need to revert, looks fine. Sabine's Sunbird talk 00:02, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

maps

BWP has a good breeding/wintering map for the western palearctic, Sims has a smaller one of entire breeding range, and Arlott has breeding/wintering for whole paleartic but very small. Given the scorn poured on my cartography elsewhere, does any want me to email some all of these to have a go them selves? jimfbleak (talk) 11:56, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I've created a rough map based on the HBW. I can make corections if there are any. Sabine's Sunbird talk 03:45, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Illustration

Trying to put together an illustrated summary of the races - but this is not easy thanks to the amount of variation. Here is a working version and it needs to be improved if it is to be used. Suggestions and sources for improving it are welcome. Shyamal (talk) 10:40, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
<clear/>

Sexual dimorphism

The article says that the bird has a black cap. However, this is true only for males, while females actually have a grey cap, not different from the above of the bird. See, e.g., the first and the third image taken in Moscow. This dimorphism is also mentioned in Russian books, e.g.: В. К. Рябинцев, "Птицы Урала, Приуралья и Западной Сибири" (V. K. Ryabintsev, "Birds of the Urals, Priural’e and West Siberia"), published in Yekaterinburg by the Urals State University.

To avoid confusion, I think that this fact should be mentioned in the article, together with the photos that serve the best to illustrate this fact. I can make some photos on request (in Yekaterinburg, this bird is very common).Alexander Patrakov (talk) 08:57, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Photos of sexual dimorphism in a subspecies would be awesome. I suspect we could find some existing ones too. Thanks, and I agree we need to widen the description section, I'll try and take it on this weekend. Sabine's Sunbird talk 09:06, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Here is a photo that I took several days ago (cropped, but not otherwise edited, i.e., there is no higher-resolution version). Is it OK? BTW, the "Ageing and sexing (PDF) by Javier Blasco-Zumeta" document (linked in the article) states: "4 types of age can be recognized: (1) Juvenile with fresh plumage and grey head. ...", and doesn't state that females lack the black cap. I am totally confused. Now will go to the garden and take more photos (Update: there are no white wagtails in the garden today, will retry later). Alexander Patrakov (talk) 09:51, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Additional refs to be looked at

• Badyaev, A. V., D. D. Gibson, B. Kessel. 1996. White Wagtail (Motacilla alba) and Black-backed Wagtail (Motacilla lugens). In The Birds of North America, No. 236–237 (A. Poole and F. Gill, eds.). The Academy of Natural Sciences, Philadelphia, PA, and The American Ornithologists’ Union, Washington, D.C.

Article

• Academy Of Natural Sciences Of P. (1996). White Wagtail (Motacilla alba) and Black-backed Wagtail (Motacilla lugens). Birds of North America. vol 0, no 236-237. p. 1-24.

• Akhtar SA & Prakash V. (1989). Streakeyed Pied Wagtail Motacilla-Alba-Ocularis New-Record Swinhoe from Harike Lake Punjab India. Journal of the Bombay Natural History Society. vol 86, no 2.

• Davies NB. (1976). FOOD, FLOCKING AND TERRITORIAL BEHAVIOR OF PIED WAGTAIL (MOTACILLA-ALBA YARRELLII GOULD) IN WINTER. Journal of Animal Ecology. vol 45, no 1. p. 235-252.

• Davies NB. (1981). Calling as an Ownership Convention on Pied Wagtail Motacilla-Alba Territories. Animal Behaviour. vol 29, no 2. p. 529-534.

• Davies NB & Houston AI. (1981). Owners and Satellites the Economics of Territory Defense in the Pied Wagtail Motacilla-Alba. Journal of Animal Ecology. vol 50, no 1. p. 157-180.

• Davies NB & Houston AI. (1983). Time Allocation between Territories and Flocks and Owner Satellite Conflict in Foraging Pied Wagtails Motacilla-Alba. Journal of Animal Ecology. vol 52, no 2. p. 621-634.

• Dougall TW. (1991). Winter Distribution and Associated Movements of Northern Pied Wagtails Motacilla-Alba-Yarrellii as Shown by Ringing. Ringing & Migration. vol 12, no 1. p. 1-15.

• Dougall TW. (1992). Post-Fledging Dispersal of British Pied Wagtails Motacilla-Alba-Yarrellii. Ringing & Migration. vol 13, no 1. p. 21-26.

• Dougall TW. (1996). Timing of autumn migration of Pied Wagtails Motacilla alba yarrellii, in northern Britain. Ringing & Migration. vol 17, no 2. p. 139-141.

• Fitzpatrick S. (1996). Male and female incubation in Pied Wagtails Motacilla alba: Shared costs or increased parental care?. Ornis Fennica. vol 73, no 2. p. 88-96.

• Fleming TH. (1981). Winter Roosting and Feeding Behavior of Pied Wagtails Motacilla-Alba near Oxford England Uk. Ibis. vol 123, no 4. p. 463-476.

• Higuchi H & Hirano T. (1989). Breeding Season Courtship Behavior and Territoriality of White and Japanese Wagtails Motacilla-Alba and Motacilla-Grandis. Ibis. vol 131, no 4. p. 578-588.

• Houston A. (1986). The Matching Law Applies to the Wagtails Motacilla-Alba-Yarrelli Foraging in the Wild. Journal of the Experimental Analysis of Behavior. vol 45, no 1. p. 15-18.

• Houston AI, McCleery RH & Davies NB. (1985). Territory Size Prey Renewal and Feeding Rates Interpretation of Observations on the Pied Wagtail Motacilla-Alba by Simulation. Journal of Animal Ecology. vol 54, no 1. p. 227-240.

• Lopez G, Figuerola J, Varo N & Soriguer R. (2005). White Wagtails Motacilla alba showing extensive post-juvenile moult are more stressed. Ardea. vol 93, no 2. p. 237-244.

• Mason CF & Lyczynski F. (1980). Breeding Biology of the Pied Wagtail Motacilla-Alba and Yellow Wagtail Motacilla-Flava. Bird Study. vol 27, no 1. p. 1-10.

• Nakamura S, Hashimoto H & Sootome O. (1984). Breeding Ecology of Motacilla-Alba and Motacilla-Grandis and Their Interspecific Relationship. Journal of the Yamashina Institute for Ornithology. vol 16, no 2-3. p. 114-135.

• Patel ST, Pilo B & Shah RV. (1976). Oxidative Metabolism in the Liver and Kidney of Migratory Starling Sturnus-Roseus and Wagtail Motacilla-Alba. Pavo. vol 14, no 1-2. p. 41-49.

• Patel ST, Shah RV & Pilo B. (1977). Composition of Hepatic Lipids During Post Migratory and Pre Migratory Periods of the Migratory Starling Sturnus-Roseus and Wagtail Motacilla-Alba. Pavo. vol 15, no 1-2. p. 115-129.

• Pavlova A, Zink RM, Rohwer S, Koblik EA, Red'kin YA, Fadeev IV & Nesterov EV. (2005). Mitochondrial DNA and plumage evolution in the white wagtail Motacilla alba. Journal of Avian Biology. vol 36, no 4. p. 322-336.

• Persson C. (1977). The Early Stages of the Post Nuptial Molt in the White Wagtail Motacilla-Alba. Ornis Scandinavica. vol 8, no 1. p. 97-100.

• Pittie A, Kulkarni MS & Mathew R. (1998). Range extension of white wagtail Motacilla alba leucopsis at Pocharam Lake, Medak District, Andra Pradesh. Journal of the Bombay Natural History Society. vol 95, no 2. p. 347-348.

• Randler C. (2006). Is tail wagging in white wagtails, Motacilla alba, an honest signal of vigilance?. Animal Behaviour. vol 71, p. 1089-1093.

• Rezanov AG. (1981). FEEDING-BEHAVIOR AND MODES OF FEEDING IN THE WHITE WAGTAIL MOTACILLA-ALBA (PASSERIFORMES, MOTACILLIDAE). Zoologichesky Zhurnal. vol 60, no 4. p. 548-556.

• Rudolfova J, Sitko J & Horak P. (2006). Unusual finding of Trichobilharzia sp in Motacilla alba in the Czech Republic. Journal of Helminthology. vol 80, no 1. p. 83-85.

• Ryzhanovskii VN. (2001). Evidence for the existence of a high-latitude white wagtail (Motacilla alba) population in the Yamal peninsula and the boundaries of its distribution. Russian Journal of Ecology. vol 32, no 2. p. 135-137.

• Ryzhanovskii VN. (2006). Evidence for the existence of a high-altitude white wagtail (Motacilla alba) population in the Yamal Peninsula and the boundaries of its distribution. Russian Journal of Ecology. vol 37, no 2. p. 120-125.

• Shah RV, Patel ST & Pilo B. (1976). Arginase and Pre Migratory Adaptive Changes in the Liver and Kidney of Migratory Starling Sturnus-Roseus and Wagtail Motacilla-Alba. Pavo. vol 14, no 1-2. p. 50-56.

• Shah RV, Patel ST & Pilo B. (1976). A Histochemical Study on Iso Enzymes of Alkaline Phosphatase in the Intestine of Migratory Wagtail Motacilla-Alba. Journal of Animal Morphology & Physiology. vol 23, no 1-2. p. 219-221.

• Shah RV, Patel ST & Pilo B. (1978). Glucose 6 Phosphate Dehydrogenase and Malic Enzyme Activities During Adaptive Hyper Lipogenesis in Migratory Starling Sturnus-Roseus and White Wagtail Motacilla-Alba. Canadian Journal of Zoology. vol 56, no 10. p. 2083-2087.

• Storr GM, Johnstone RE & Smith LA. (1982). A Specimen of the White Wagtail Motacilla-Alba from Geraldton Western Australia. Western Australian Naturalist. vol 15, no 2. p. 19-20.

• Tewari NP. (1981). Effect of Calcium Chloride Administration on Serum Calcium Level in White Wagtail Motacilla-Alba. Journal of Advanced Zoology. vol 2, no 2. p. 94-96.

hodgsoni

Ticehurst mentions this race. It must have been subsumed into one of the 11 populations now mentioned. Which one ? Shyamal (talk) 15:38, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Merge from Black-backed Wagtail

The following references are from the other article. No major evidence for the split has been found as yet. Shyamal (talk) 07:39, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

• Badyaev, A. V., D. D. Gibson, B. Kessel. 1996. White Wagtail (Motacilla alba) and Black-backed Wagtail (Motacilla lugens). In The Birds of North America, No. 236–237 (A. Poole and F. Gill, eds.). The Academy of Natural Sciences, Philadelphia, PA, and The American Ornithologists’ Union, Washington, D.C.

• Banks RC, Cicero C, Dunn JL, Kratter AW, Rasmussen PC, Remsen JV, Jr., Rising JD & Stotz DF. (1026). Forty-sixth supplement to the American ornithologists' union check-list of North American Birds. Auk. vol 122, no 3. p. 1026-1031.

• Howell SNG. (1990). Identification of White and Black-Backed Wagtails in Alternate Plumage. Western Birds. vol 21, no 2. p. 41-50.

• Kishchinskii AA & Lobkov EG. (1979). Spatial Relationships between Some Bird Subspecies in the Bering Forest Tundra Russian-Sfsr Ussr. Byulleten' Moskovskogo Obshchestva Ispytatelei Prirody Otdel Biologicheskii. vol 84, no 5. p. 11-23.

• Sibley DA & Howell SNG. (1998). Identification of White and Black-backed wagtails in basic plumage. Western Birds. vol 29, no 3. p. 180-198.

• Stepanyan LS. (1994). On the evolutionary effects in avifauna near the eastern borders of the Palaearctic. Zoologicheskii Zhurnal. vol 73, no 9. p. 104-113.

• Voelker G. (2002). Systematics and historical biogeography of wagtails: Dispersal versus vicariance revisited. Condor. vol 104, no 4. p. 725-739.

• Wagner GF. (1991). Black-Backed Wagtail Nests on Attu Island Alaska USA. American Birds. vol 45, no 1. p. 53-55.

My evaluation of this article

As part of that course, I wrote ~300 word evaluations of various bird articles on wiki. My evaluation of this one is reproduced below, which is just my thoughts about possible improvements and things the article does well.

This article is quite well-written and very detailed. There's a custom image denoting the normal territories of different subspecies of the M. alba, and there is also a table of the subspecies with accompanying images for easy identification. The headers are logically organized into Taxonomy, Description, Habitat, and Behavior, though the behavior section doesn't make any mention of the wagtails' territory-sharing behavior as mentioned in the textbook. The links are all relevant to the main topic of the article, and the authors took care not to insert too many of them. I was particularly impressed at the inclusion of a gallery displaying various "races" of M. alba in their different plumages, which was placed after the article proper so that it didn't get in the way of those just looking for information, but was still available for those interested. The talk page is quite helpful - there's a To Do list for what the article is missing, as well as a large list of additional references for any authors interested in contributing more to the article. One issue I noticed is the relative lack of content and also updates to the article - the first fifty entries on the History page cover an entire year, as opposed to only a few months for the other articles I looked at. This might just be because there's little new research available on the pied wagtail, and there's not much general interest in the bird itself. I could definitely improve on this article with the addition of a description of its territory-sharing behavior, but everything else is quite solid.

WolfyFTW (talk) 19:49, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

Proposed image

Wagtail, shot near Mumbai, India on Dec 2014.

I am not very sure where this image would fit. It was shot near Mumbai, India on Dec 2014. -- YN Desai ^Discuss 07:41, 2 March 2020 (UTC)