Jump to content

Talk:Vladimir the Great

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Talk:Vladimir I of Kiev)


Vladimir is wrong

[edit]
Leaving this discussion open just encourages new IPs to post even though the section was started in 2022 and nothing new has been said since then.--Ermenrich (talk) 15:11, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Vladimir is WRONG. It is obvious.
Kyiv is called Kiev "by most historic books in English". But the heading of the article is Kyiv, not Kiev.
So the heading of the article must be changed to Volodymyr. 92.253.212.115 (talk) 20:00, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As I understand, Kiev is transliteration of the Russian name, whereas Kyiv is transliteration of the Ukrainian version. The latter has become much more common in some sources in recent times, for obvious political reasons. Moribundum (talk) 05:41, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You are absolutely right.The fact that Ukraine was colonized by Russia and purposely everything was spelled Russian way as part of mass Russification back then,doesn’t give a right to keep spelling the wrong way.Ukraine is it’s own county with its own language vs Russia back then Moskovia that took roots from Golden Horde and is a hybrid formation that formed its language mostly out of Ukraine and Belorussia has nothing to do with Kyivan Rus and it’s history,absolutely nothing.It’s very upsetting that so many people are not familiar with that part of the world and it’s history but yet have an opinion or wrote misleading articles. Irishka1515 (talk) 22:20, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are absolutely wrong. Ukraine was never colonized by Russia and the spelling was always Russian until 1991 lol.
Just because Ukraine became independent and decided to falsify the spellings of all original names doesn't give anyone the tight o actually start calling them those new wrong names.
Ukraine is a nation that was formed based on a culture that formed from Russians living under Polish occupation. Claiming it has nothing to do with Russia is beyond delusional. Ukraine literally has it's same roots in the Golden Horde.
It is a hybrid of Russian and Polish and has nothing to do with medieval Russia and it's history.
It’s very upsetting that so many people are not familiar with that part of the world and it’s history but yet have an opinion or wrote misleading articles. 2A02:8108:8A80:753A:6BEE:5DC2:DCD6:F59 (talk) 01:06, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
He is another "Russians = Mongols" Troll. It is actually crazy that your comments get removed for revisionism and not his lol RumyantsevPolkovodets (talk) 11:28, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Irishka. You know that the Russian Version for Kiev is closer to the original Name Києвъ than what you use for it? Also Nobody colonised the Ukraine. It was reunited by a Prince from Moscow, in an alternative History it could have been reunited by someone from Ryzan, Novgorod, Tver or even Chernigov. But Moscow was the Most succesful of the Rus princes in Real Life. 91.106.124.226 (talk) 08:52, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WRONG. Kiev is still called Kiev in every serious work of history as it is the original name and not the modern Ukrainian version.
The Old East Slavic name is Владимиръ (Vladimir). 2A02:8108:8A80:753A:6BEE:5DC2:DCD6:F59 (talk) 01:02, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Володимѣръ Volodymyr is the name of Volodymyr the Great Володимир Volodymyr is the name of Volodymyr Zelenskyy Владимир Vladimir is the name of Vladimir Putin Thekyrman (talk) 17:18, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You are trolling, right? This is no place for revisionist history:
Senderovich, Savely (2007). "К истории восточнославянского имени Владимир" (PDF). Славяноведение. 2: 10.
The old Slavic spelling is literally "Владимиръ". There are literal coins recovered from his reign spelling it that way.
Volodymyr is likely the pronounciation of the word in old east Slavic, but definetly not how it was written. RumyantsevPolkovodets (talk) 11:27, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Unexplained 2 year gap ?

[edit]

Hello, I have a question. In the infobox it states that his coronation was in 980. However in the article:

"...and capturing Polotsk and Smolensk facilitated the taking of Kiev in 978, where he slew Yaropolk by treachery and was proclaimed knyaz of all Kievan Rus."

This reading implies that he was immediately proclaimed ruler of the kingdom... but actually there is this unexplained 2 year gap? If anyone can shed some light here, thank you. Moribundum (talk) 05:45, 26 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He became the prince in 978, but the Primary Chronicle mentions 980, probably this is when he consolidated the realm. A monk from the 11th century puts the date at 11 June 978. Mellk (talk) 00:35, 21 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Questionable character"

[edit]

"Shadowy figure" is what the original editor should have written back in September 2008; I suspect a translation artifact. His additions at the time are in slightly unidiomatic English, possibly transparent to Ukrainian? (e.g., "he married … to a granddaughter"). At any rate, "questionable character" is a pejorative term for a person not quite honest; what is meant is "shadowy figure" vel sim., i.e., a person who may not have existed, or about whom very little is known, etc. Bill (talk) 13:50, 16 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Name of Volodymyr

[edit]

Why he called in wiki Vladimir??? In old east Slavic he was called: Володимѣръ Свѧтославичь, Volodiměrъ Svętoslavičь So we need to rename it into Volodimer, Volodymyr, or something like that. There's no "Vlad" in his real name. 91.199.245.2 (talk) 15:45, 15 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Because he's a major figure in Russian history, and old spellings or Ukrainian conventions were, until lately, deemed unimportant? Svartalf (talk) 15:54, 18 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Excuse me,he has nothing to do with Russia.Russia hijacked Ukrainian history once again.The fact that Russians especially Putin with coming to power burned history books and rewrote everything to his liking doesn’t make Volodymyr the Great Russian figure.It’s wrong in every single level. Irishka1515 (talk) 22:11, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing? You sure? So ruling a state literally called "Russia" is not enough of a connection?
Ukraine once again is hijacking Russian history.
The fact that Ukraine after it's independence burned history books and and rewrote everything to their liking doesn't make Vladimir the Great a Ukrainian figure. It is wrong on absolutely every single level 2A02:8108:8A80:753A:6BEE:5DC2:DCD6:F59 (talk) 00:56, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, it must be Uladzimir to stop Russian and Ukrainian chauvinism. Mellk (talk) 23:13, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Those Ukrainian spellings are still deemed "unimportant" at this English wikipedia. It's what's used in English sources that matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fyunck(click) (talk • contribs) 23:53, 21 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You are absolutely right.It seams that Russian wrote the original page and once again trying to hijack the history of Ukraine.He is sure Volodymyr and not Vladimir,it’s even shown the proper in old Slavic language as Volodymyr but yet another Russian is writing Russian way portraying him as Russian when in reality he has nothing to do with Moskovia who took its roots from the Golden Horde.Sad!!! Irishka1515 (talk) 22:08, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So true. Now tell us a story about how ancient Ukrainians dug the Black Sea out with spoons. 62.12.83.152 (talk) 21:47, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely wrong. It seems a lot of Ukrainians can't accept proper history and are once again hijacking Russian history. He is definetly Vladimir and not Volodymyr. It's even shown in proper East Slavic as Vladimir but yet another Ukrainian is writing the Ukrainian modern way portraying him as Ukrainian when in reality he has nothing to do with Malorussia who took their roots from the Golden Horde. Sad!! 2A02:8108:8A80:753A:6BEE:5DC2:DCD6:F59 (talk) 00:59, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Old east Slavic is Владимиръ 2A02:8108:8A80:753A:6BEE:5DC2:DCD6:F59 (talk) 00:54, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Roman Catholic Church does not consider him as a saint.

[edit]

The Latin rite of the Catholic Church does not consider Vladimir the great as a saint. Only the Eastern Ruthenian Catholic Churches consider him as a saint.

https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15497a.htm EXANXC (talk) 16:16, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That isn't stated anywhere in the source you linked, which is the Catholic Encyclopedia and has titled the article "St. Vladimir the Great", which would appear to contradict your claim.--Ermenrich (talk) 16:38, 5 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
According to the last part of that article, "His feast is celebrated on 15 July in the Russian Orthodox and Ruthenian Greek Catholic calendars"
It contains no information about the Latin Church venerating him. EXANXC (talk) 07:53, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He's in the Roman Martyrology under July 15. Srnec (talk) 18:07, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Here’s two reliable sources: I. and II. to supplement those websites. Raulois (talk) 20:17, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 28 January 2024

[edit]

Well,this whole entire post is wrong and looks like it was written by someone with Russian origin as there is a lot of words spelled Russian way instead of Ukrainian,including the correct spelling of Volodymyr not Vladimir as well as spelling Kiev instead of correct way of Kyiv.Let me point it out thaf Kyivan Rus is now Ukraine not Russia,what year was Kyiv founded vs Moskovia.This is very insulting to every Ukrainian that people like you hijack their history. Irishka1515 (talk) 22:03, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Also see WP:COMMONNAME or take a peek at the archives of this talk page Cannolis (talk) 22:17, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, the modern Ukrainian spelling is not the correct one. The correct spelling of Vladimir is not Volodymyr as well as incorrect spelling of Kiev as Kyiv. Let me point out that Kievan Rus is now Russia and not Ukraine, what were the first 2 capitals again? This is very insulting to every historian and Russian that people like you hijack their history. RumyantsevPolkovodets (talk) 12:55, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Which language did he speak?

[edit]

In order to be more properly encyclopedic, shouldn't we add which language Vladimir the Great spoke to this article? Was it Old Norse or some Slavic language? 76.190.213.189 (talk) 01:25, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Old Ukraininian (Ruthenian) Thekyrman (talk) 17:21, 1 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Wrong old east Slavic. 91.106.124.226 (talk) 08:48, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect name on the page.

[edit]

Calling Kyivan prince Vladimir incorrect. In languages that were spoken at the time he was alive, he was never called like that. He was called Volodimer, Valdamarr etc, but not Vladimir. Kyrylo Schwydkyj (talk) 12:36, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We are interested only in what he is called in English, not in medieval languages. Dimadick (talk) 17:02, 11 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So you're in favor of a falscificated name? Kyrylo Schwydkyj (talk) 20:15, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We are in favor of English sources. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:53, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
How typical! 64.35.203.197 (talk) 01:51, 26 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, you're in favor of falscificated names. Kyrylo Schwydkyj (talk) 16:21, 27 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No but you are RumyantsevPolkovodets (talk) 12:50, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Medieval Latin Vladimirus, name of several saints in the Eastern Orthodox Church, from Old East Slavic Володимѣръ (Volodiměrŭ), Old Church Slavonic Владимѣръ (Vladiměrŭ), from Proto-Slavic *Voldiměrъ (which see for more) [...] Compare Waldemar."
From the English Wiktionary entry for Vladimir. As you see he was called Vladimir in medieval Latin and Old Church Slavonic with the "Vlad" component. In other languages there is / was a "Vald" component. And in yet more languages there is the "Volod" component. Hell, some Latin variations even drop the V entirely and turn it into "Lodo" (see Lodomeria). Saying any of these variants is wrong because they weren't used historically is nonsense. As for why the "Vlad" component is chosen out of all historical examples, other users have repeatedly pointed it out: it's the most common name in English sources. Blaming Russia for that is stupid, btw, since it could very well be from Latin. Just because it's used in a language you hate doesn't mean it's wrong or bad or that everyone else has to conform to your wishes. 62.12.83.152 (talk) 21:54, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah Waldemar is not Volodymyr.
The Old East Slavic name was Владимиръ (Vladimir).
Same in Old Church Slavonic, Proro-Slavic "Vladimer".
Source: Senderovich, Savely (2007). "К истории восточнославянского имени Владимир" (PDF). Славяноведение. 2: 10. RumyantsevPolkovodets (talk) 12:52, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Calling a Kievan Prince Volodymyr is incorrect. In languages that were spoken at the time he was alive, he was never called like that. He was called Vladimir, Valdamarr etc, but not Volodymyr.
Source: Senderovich, Savely (2007). "К истории восточнославянского имени Владимир" (PDF). Славяноведение. 2: 10. RumyantsevPolkovodets (talk) 12:49, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Vladimir_the_Great&oldid=1255557149"