Talk:Vesperae solennes de Dominica

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I created a stub to hold all the media that exists for the piece in the commons. Feel free to expand the article. DavidRF (talk) 05:09, 21 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Article name

This article should be moved to "Vesperae de Dominica" (no need for "(Mozart)"), or to "Vesperae solennes de Dominica", its title as shown in the NMA. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 13:40, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I checked to see what else is out there. Although "Vesperae solennes de Dominica" ("Sunday Solemn Vespers") is the full name, it looks like "Vespera de Dominica" ("Sunday Vespers") is an equally common way to refer to the work. Michael Haydn has a pair of works with the same name. MH 321 in C major and MH 58 in A major. See List_of_compositions_by_Michael_Haydn. That isn't to say we can't rename the article exactly how you've suggested the full name is perhaps more appropriate and the MHaydn works are obscure... just dumping some facts.--DavidRF (talk) 17:46, 22 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't make my point clear enough; I agree that K. 321 is usually called "Vesperae de Dominica" and that's my first preference for this article's name, dropping the qualifier "(Mozart)". If and when M. Haydn's or any other such titled works get articles, they can then use an appropriate qualifier. I mentioned "Vesperae solennes de Dominica" only in case there was a naming conflict which I had overlooked, but I don't think there is. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:41, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 25 May 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is a mild consensus for this requested move. (closed by non-admin page mover) qedk (t 桜 c) 19:39, 9 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The request to rename this article to Vesperae solennes de Dominica has been carried out.

Vesperae solennes de Dominica (Mozart) → Vesperae solennes de Dominica – * WP:Disambiguation says "Disambiguation is required whenever, for a given word or phrase on which a reader might search, there is more than one existing Wikipedia article to which that word or phrase might be expected to lead." There is not more than one existing article where this title might lead, so disambiguation is not necessary.

Apparently there are works called Vesperae solennes de Dominica by Joseph Michel and Johann Valentin Rathgeber, but these are seemingly not even notable enough to get a mention in the composers' articles, let alone have their own. WP:ATDIS says "If the article is about the primary topic to which the ambiguous name refers, then that name can be its title without modification, provided it follows all other applicable policies." Mozart's work is undoubtedly the primary topic, and no other policies apply in this case.
Even Wikipedia:Naming conventions (music)#Articles not belonging to a series: common name and disambiguation says "A non-generic article title for an article on a composition that is unique to a composer is only disambiguated by composer's name or composition type when such disambiguation is needed" (my emphasis). As already stated, no disambiguation is needed.

Opera hat (talk) 20:47, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: the question is if it is a non-generic title, simply translating to Festive Sunday Vespers. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:50, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'd understand generic titles to be things like "Piano Concerto in A Flat" or "Third Symphony". "Solemn Sunday Vespers" would be a generic title for a church service, but not a piece of music. Either way, I only tagged that on the end: the main points I wanted to make were the first two, i.e. 1) no disambiguation is needed if there's no other article to disambiguate it from, and 2) even if there were any other such articles, this one would be the primary topic and so wouldn't need qualification anyway. Opera hat (talk) 21:31, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nomination. Sole Wikipedia entry which bears this exact main title header, with Vesperae solennes de Dominica redundantly redirecting to Vesperae solennes de Dominica (Mozart). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 23:03, 25 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support per my comments above. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 02:27, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom and WP:PRECISE and WP:CONCISE. No other article currently on WP requires the title. Station1 (talk) 22:34, 26 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose classical music project tends to titling works with composers, on the basis that reality exists outside Wikipedia. In ictu oculi (talk) 12:48, 27 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Why psalm 116/117?

Does anyone know why Mozart set the Psalm 116/117 Laudate Dominum to music in a collection called "Vesperae selennes de Dominica"? This is the final psalm for many feasts, for example feasts of Confessors (pre-1911, of course, or for sufficiently high-ranked feasts), and Mozart duly and somewhat famously also included it in his Vesperae sollennes de Confessore. But why also here? It is not part of the Roman-Rite liturgy for Second Vespers of a Sunday; that would be Ps 113/114 In exitu Israel de Aegypto. (The other psalms do fit. - It isn't First Vespers of course anyway, that's 5 entirely different psalms.) So, why? Does anybody know someone to have commented on this? --138.245.1.1 (talk) 13:47, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]