Talk:Qara Yuluk Uthman Beg
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Link to reference
[edit]In addition the following indicates there is another reference avaiable:
PhilKnight (talk) 19:43, 22 August 2009 (UTC) The designated successor of Qara Osman was his son Jalal al Din Ali Beg, who was challenged by his brother Hamza of Mardin. Ali ruled from 1435-1438 after which he sought asylum with Sultan Murad II of Turkey. He died 1443-4 probably in Syria. Ali was, by his first-cousin/wife Saray Khatun, the father of the famous Uzun(Long or tall) Hasan. His daughter Khadijeh Khatun was the mother of Sheikh Haidar Safavid the father of Shah Ismail of Persia.His grand-daughter, Halima Khatun/Alamshah (daughter of Uzun Hasan and Theodora Comnenna of Trebizand) was the mother of Shah Ismail of Persia. Known as Ulu Beg to Greek sources around 1421/2 he married a Comnenna princess,said to be a daughter of Alexis but more probably a half sister of Alexis IV,a daughter of Manuel III and Anna Philantropena (1at cousin of Manuel II on her mother's side). Ali Beg's mother was quite likely a sister of Manuel III. Maria,the sister of Alexia III who married Qutulu Beg in 1352 was almost certainly the mother of Qara Osman.Thus Father, son and grandson were clisley connected with Emperors of Trebizand. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.132.199.8 (talk) 03:07, 28 December 2014 (UTC)
References
- ^ Miller Nicole Idris Bidlisi
Requested move 29 May 2022
[edit]- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: move the page to Qara Yuluk Uthman Beg at this time, per the discussion below, with a new redirect from the title proposed here. Dekimasuよ! 05:44, 27 June 2022 (UTC)
Uthman Beg → Qara Yuluk – Qara Yuluk gives more results than Uthman Beg on google books, similarly on google search 2390 vs 742. Thus per WP:COMONNAME. Beshogur (talk) 09:09, 29 May 2022 (UTC)— Relisting. Spekkios (talk) 01:25, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
- What about variants like Uthman Bey? Srnec (talk) 17:40, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
- I don't see usage like Uthman Bey. There can be Osman Bey as well, but that's probably mostly about Osman I, and mostly Turkish sources. Beshogur (talk) 18:25, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
- From the first link you provided, the first hit I see says "Among the more aggressive of these was Qara Yuluk ʿUthman Bey, chieftain of the Aq-Qoyunlu federation (r. 805/ 1403–839/1435)." Srnec (talk) 19:11, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
- Look further, there are other variations of course, but the most common search results is Qara Yuluq. Which isn't a name of course, but his nickname. Other names includes Bahauddin, Uthman/Osman/Othman, etc. Beshogur (talk) 21:24, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
- From the first link you provided, the first hit I see says "Among the more aggressive of these was Qara Yuluk ʿUthman Bey, chieftain of the Aq-Qoyunlu federation (r. 805/ 1403–839/1435)." Srnec (talk) 19:11, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
- I don't see usage like Uthman Bey. There can be Osman Bey as well, but that's probably mostly about Osman I, and mostly Turkish sources. Beshogur (talk) 18:25, 29 May 2022 (UTC)
He is indeed also referred to as 'Uthman Beg' (or its variants) in other sources, including leading academic sources in this field, Islamica (Uthman Beg/Qara Uthman), Iranica (Qara Yoluz (or Yülük) ʿOṯmān Beg) and Das turkmenische Intermezzo (pp. 271-272) by Roemer (Qara Yoluq Uthman Beg). After introducing him, both Iranica and Roemer simply refers to him as 'Qara Uthman/Qara ʿOṯmān.' Therefore I would support a move to Qara Yuluk Uthman Beg instead. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:17, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
- Well the reason why I excluded his name is, because there is no second person named with that nickname. Perhaps Qara Yuluk Uthman is better without the beg title? Beshogur (talk) 14:19, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
- Why exclude 'beg'? That is commonly part of his name, and is only three letters. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:42, 1 June 2022 (UTC)
- I could support Qara Yuluk Uthman Beg. Srnec (talk) 04:29, 5 June 2022 (UTC)
- Move to Qara Yuluk Uthman Beg. Seems to be the common name - or at least among the common names - of this figure. While it's less concise than other options, I think this name (incl. the "beg" title) counterbalances the loss of concision by improving the recognizability, and thus I find it preferable under the WP:CRITERIA. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:52, 9 June 2022 (UTC)