Talk:Up the Long Ladder

Production/trivia

I'm sure the title of this episode (Up the Long Ladder) is possibly a reference to something else, but for the life of me I can't remember what it is. Astronaut (talk) 16:34, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

We'd need a source for it, but I'd expect the reference was to the DNA helix, with its ladder-like form, given the episode's genetics-themed plot and the fact that the Mariposa residents are all cloned from a long-ago set of colonists (i.e., up the long ladder of the DNA back to the early colonists). Lawikitejana (talk) 17:26, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism

This page seems to be subject to frequent malicious revisions. I've deleted the most recent additions, but the fix is likely to be temporary. 66.80.65.244 (talk) 18:58, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I left one comment here on the episode's racism and obnoxious 19th-century Irish stereotypes, and that was deleted. Hardly "frequent", "malicious", or "vandalism." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.14.87.76 (talk) 16:01, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Vandalism II

Some stupid filter prevents me from reverting to the last sane version. Do it yourself or fix your filters. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.1.56.149 (talk) 15:58, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Depiction of Irish culture

It would be legitimate to create a Criticisms section, with suitably referenced coverage of the objections which have been made. Most Irish people seem to think the stereotypes used are too ludicrous to be offensive, but it's certainly one of the most embarrassingly awful TNG episodes made, and a worrying insight into US attitudes to the Irish. --Ef80 (talk) 19:17, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

I agree that a reception section should address this criticism. It has been criticized by numerous sources for the depiction of Irish culture, sexism, and being pro-choice. The writer has stated the show was meant to be about US immigration policies, but an Irish American who also worked on the series convinced her to base the characters on "Irish tinkerers". The intended message on immigration was lost to rewrites and budget restrictions. The writer also did a later episode influenced by the Troubles in Northern Ireland, however, she resented the influence having wished to instead base it on the American Revolution. Also, the title refers to the expression "Up the long ladder, down the short rope." Which, of course, is about hanging Irish people. Criticism from Ars Technica and rest of info/sources over at Memory Alpha Fiachaire (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 13:11, 10 July 2016 (UTC)

I've added a reception section to the article, so you can now put this criticism there. (Marxist-Trotskyist Communism (talk) 18:41, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

You can put the criticism of this episode in that section now. Any time now. (Marxist-Trotskyist Communism (talk) 03:22, 15 January 2018 (UTC))

References

Allegory of the Troubles in Northern Ireland?

I have a horrible suspicion that this episode is some sort of boneheaded ahistorical allegory for the Troubles, with the Bringloidi representing Irish Republicans and the Mariposans representing the British/English/Unionists (all the same to many Americans of course). --31.185.143.164 (talk) 20:07, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

The later episode The High Ground by the same scriptwriter appears to be similarly inspired by Northern Ireland in the 1970s and 80s. Americans seem to have no inkling of how offensive this stuff is, both to the British and Irish. --Ef80 (talk) 18:33, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Wow, this ep is pretty obviously not an allegory for the Troubles. I have no idea where that's coming from.

And as far as offense goes, a long-dead empire trying to hold onto every last square inch (at gunpoint, if necessary) is pretty offensive here in the modern world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:18D:1:C9B9:B541:B384:7CA3:1B9A (talk) 13:28, 4 October 2016 (UTC)

Images removed

I've removed all but one of the images. Techform added a section on deleted scenes in January 2018, and thanks for that, but a list of deleted scenes doesn't justify a gallery of fair use images. Unless there is a real discussion/analysis of the topic of the image, only one fair use image per article is justifiable. Yngvadottir (talk) 15:55, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Apocrypha

Can we mention non-canon books? The planet is revisited in the Starfleet Core of Engineers book "Out of the Cocoon".[1] Might be worth mentioning if it is allowed. -- 109.78.194.208 (talk) 07:54, 4 June 2021 (UTC)

Pro choice

• The unauthorized Trekkers' guide to The next generation "aroused the ire of the anti-abortion crowd with Melinda Snodgrass's episode"
• Trek Navigator* Mark A Altman: "The show's not very subtle pro-choice message is a surprisingly blatant stand for Star Trek to take in favor of abortion rights."

These sources establish that there were definitely people who interpreted the episode as containing a pro-choice message. I also recall reading comments from Melinda Snodgrass in response to this, but I don't have time at the moment to find those comments too. Later maybe. -- 109.78.209.61 (talk) 05:57, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Mostly likely it was Memory Alpha, probably. Not sure if I found a better source than that though. -- 109.78.209.61 (talk) 21:19, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Cinefantastique Magazine vol 21 Issues 1 2 3

Melinda Snodgrass: "I got enormous flack from the right-to-life coalition,” said writer Melinda Snodgrass. "When they destroyed the clones, they [the pro-lifers] thought I was condoning abortion. In fact, I did put the lines in Riker's mouth that were very pro-choice. Riker says, "I told you that you can't clone me and you did it against my will. I have the right to have control over my own body." That was my feeling, and it was my soapbox to get up on. I was supported by [producer] Maurice [Hurley] all the way."

That reference also reiterates that the theme of the episode was about attitudes to immigrants. (If I recall correctly, the reason I looked into this is because I wanted to clarify that it was not an allegory for some of the other things that people had suggested above.) So while it has been perceived as a pro choice episode, it was intended to be about immigrants.

Also found an interview with props master Alan Sims about the production of this episode.[2] I will probably add some more of this to Production section eventually, but if anyone else is interested in improving the article sooner please do go right ahead. -- 109.78.206.86 (talk) 01:21, 8 May 2022 (UTC)

No she got flak, not flack. 2001:9E8:4621:8B00:D96E:8511:3C2B:BA1 (talk) 21:43, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

This is not a forum, the purpose of the article talk page is to discuss how to improve the encyclopedia article. Criticizing the spelling of quoted text that is not even included anywhere in the encyclopedia article is not constructive. The text was quoted from the 1990 magazine article, "flack" [sic] was a a direct verbatim quote. The spelling "flack" is apparently a less used alternative spelling[3] but if anyone ever gets around adding the criticism to the encyclopedia it would would be best to avoid the military metaphor (idiom) and use plain English instead. -- 109.79.65.30 (talk)

Home media

If anyone ever gets around to adding a Home media section for this episode, they might want to note that it was also released on Laserdisc.[4] -- 109.78.206.86 (talk) 03:38, 8 May 2022 (UTC)