Talk:Naval Special Warfare Command (Thailand)

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The Rock theme

I love how they play the theme from The Rock (I think) on their web page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.236.30.115 (talk) 13:17, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Cave Rescue

Perhaps there should be mention of the 2018 soccer team cave rescue added to this article. Most people in the world had never heard of Thai Navy SEALS. Suddenly, they've become the heroes of the cave. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.71.148.25 (talk) 16:42, 3 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 July 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move to Naval Special Warfare Command (Thailand). There is clear support for a move to some title, but it's less clear what the name should be. This option had the most support. This solves the main problem of the article not being under a commonly used current title; feel free to start a new RM without prejudice if one of the other options turns out to be more common. Cúchullain ^t/c 13:54, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Underwater Demolition Assault Unit → Thai Navy SEAL –

The subject appears to be known as the Thai Navy SEAL in most English literature, such as Reuters, LA Times, Straits Times, Washington Post, Dispatch Live, etc.
The name Underwater Demolition Assault Unit seems to appear in the weak source mentioned in the article only.
The official name of the subject is the Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet (หน่วยบัญชาการสงครามพิเศษทางเรือ กองเรือยุทธการ), as appeared at the bottom of its website. But this name seems to appear at the site bottom only; at the other places on the same website and on other social media of the subject (such as sealthailand.com, Thai Navy SEAL Facebook, etc), the term SEAL is used.
-- Miwako Sato (talk) 02:58, 4 July 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. Dekimasuよ! 18:00, 12 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

oppose. your third point regarding official name is enough to overrule that. SYSS Mouse (talk) 14:06, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- @SYSS Mouse: The articles on Wikipedia use the titles that are most commonly used in English literature, not necessarily the official titles. See WP:COMMONNAME. --Miwako Sato (talk) 14:37, 4 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Please do not move articles over opposition during open move requests as was done here. If there is consensus to move the page at the end of the discussion, it will be moved as requested by an uninvolved closer. Even if you would like to withdraw a request without performing the move, the request should be withdrawn rather than deleted from the talk page as took place in this edit. Dekimasuよ! 15:57, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per syss mouse - ^theWOLFchild 20:17, 5 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support The "Underwater Demolition Assault Unit" was its old name. The organisation has been renamed to the "Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet" for at least a decade, but it is generally known as the "(Thai Navy) SEAL". --YURi (talk) 03:23, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Support either Thai Navy SEAL (because the unit calls itself so and is generally known so) or Thai Naval Special Warfare Command (its current official name) per BobNesh. --YURi (talk) 03:54, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. All of the sources from point #1 are from a singular event and most likely the same newswire. The sudden, probably erroneous, usage of the term by all of them does not reflect a longstanding consensus by news organizations, much less "most English literature". "Naval Special Warfare Command" should be the new name, given it is actually the official one and the current one is invalid. 9³ (talk) 15:49, 6 July 2018 (UTC) 23:23, 7 July 2018 (UTC) My first point still stands pending solid English sources outside of the caving incident. 9³ (talk) 23:23, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose However, (Royal) Thai Naval Special Warfare Command would be better than current name or proposed one. BobNesh (talk) 15:54, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose This page is about the special unit name "Underwater Demolition Assault Unit" not a command Headquarters name Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet it different. If you want to create about Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet I think you must create a new page about this command and link the force of Naval Special Warfare Command with Underwater Demolition Assault Unit.Ministerboy (talk) 23:08, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: @Ministerboy: "Underwater Demolition Assault Unit" and "Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet" are the same unit (with the former being its old name). Please see the discussion in the section below. --YURi (talk) 01:55, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support "Thai Navy SEAL" or "Thai Naval Special Warfare Command" (but prefer "Thai Naval Special Warfare Command" over "Thai Navy SEAL" as it is the present official name of the agency) --Aristitleism (talk) 08:32, 7 July 2018 (UTC) Support Paul below --Aristitleism (talk) 09:03, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Move to Naval Special Warfare Command (Thailand), per the reasoning that this is the unit's current name, and as "Thai" isn't part of its name. This is a case where I think the official name should be preferred over the more common nickname of uncertain provenance, even though the latter is more commonly used colloquially. --Paul_012 (talk) 08:33, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Alternatively, also support a move to anything rather than the current title which was mistakenly used following undetected IP vandalism long ago. --Paul_012 (talk) 04:02, 15 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The page was originally titled Royal Thai Navy SEALs, but was renamed to Underwater Demolition Assault Unit by User:Mesoso2 in 2016, to follow the bold title in the lead. However, this had been in turn inserted by an IP vandal (or at best, a very misguided editor) back in 2011, with zero references supporting it. As such, there is zero reason to keep the article at the current title. Pinging users SYSS Mouse, Thewolfchild, 93 and Ministerboy. --Paul_012 (talk) 10:01, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support Here's a link to a youtube video, Published on May 18, 2017, showing the Royal Thai Navy SEAL Skydive Team. If you look at the cap at 43 seconds in, it clearly says, "Royal Thai Navy SEAL". Even if "Thai" is not used nationally, it's obviously used internationally. Like in the Netherlands, the Korps Mariniers is the official title, but internationally it's officially called Royal Netherlands Marine Corps (on batch, RNLMC). Karel Adriaan (talk) 10:21, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support either the title proposed by the OP ("Thai Navy SEAL") or the title proposed by Paul_012 ("Naval Special Warfare Command (Thailand)"). --iyouwetheyhesheit (talk) 09:15, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: Whatever the history behind the current title, it is misleading. It needs to change. --Reader312 (talk) 18:15, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support WP:COMMONNAME for English-language sources seems pretty clear. Wqwt (talk) 04:48, 12 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

*Support Either Thai Navy SEAL because the unit calls itself so and is generally known so, or Thai Naval Special Warfare Command because that is official and more encyclopedic. The current title certainly makes no sense, I expect there are many such units globally. E x nihil ^(talk) : Ex nihil (talk) 09:52, 12 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I've amended my !vote above. It should be clear that there is consensus to move away from the current inaccurate title which is not supported by any reliable source.--Paul_012 (talk) 04:02, 15 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Support Naval Special Warfare Command (Thailand) per Paul_012 (and YURi's comment) above. — Sasuke Sarutobi (push to talk) 17:02, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Even though that is not the title proposed in this RM... - wolf 18:29, 23 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Royal Thai Navy SEALs, this is the name used by the US government 1 in 2018, the Australian government 2 in 2018, how the U.S. military name the unit 3 in 2018 and back in 2008 4, the unit themselves in English use Royal Thai Navy SEAL as shown on their flag on their official Facebook page 5- I would have more examples but their official website http://www.sealthailand.com is down today - their old official site from 2008 6 used Royal Thai Navy SEAL, English souvenirs are sold in Thailand such as their hat use Royal Thai Navy SEAL 7 - there was on their official website http://www.sealthailand.com a recent presentation ceremony photo in which that hat was given out by a commander, and the Thai media use name from 2009 8. Title will be consistent with the title of the United States Navy SEALs article. To use the title of Thai Navy SEAL this will not include Royal Thai nor use SEALs. As User:Paul_012 mentions above the article was originally titled Royal Thai Navy SEALs, but was renamed to Underwater Demolition Assault Unit by User:Mesoso2 in 2016. The article should be reverted to its original title Royal Thai Navy SEALs.--Melbguy05 (talk) 05:49, 24 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
- Revert to Royal Thai Navy SEALs as above, although what the US or Australian governments call it is not relevant, it's that Thailand calls them this. The original title was correct, what a lot of time that move has caused. This is a change to my qualified support above after reading subsequent comments. E x nihil ^(talk) : Ex nihil (talk) 08:42, 24 July 2018 (UTC).[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Intro part

The organisation has changed its name to Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet since 2008, and it is commonly known as Thai Navy SEAL (with SEAL being an acronym), per the sources I have given. Then, @Thewolfchild: explain your reasons for reverting the edits, I beg you. --Miwako Sato (talk) 04:48, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Miwako Sato: No begging required, discussing disputed content is standard. This is what is supposed to happen, instead of edit warring. There was sourced content that stated that the Thai Seals are named for the marine animals, and not as an acronym like the USN SEALs. You tried changing that, it was reverted (disputed) by another editor, but instead of discussing, you reverted again. I then sent the article back to QUO and requested a talk page discussion, but you continued reverting. A quick look on Google produced a Bangkok Media outlet (see here) that refers to the Thai unit in lower case, which would support the original content. However, we should allow some time for others to participate. If it can be clearly determined that the Thai unit does indeed use the same naming style as the Americans, or a consensus supports that, then your change will likely go back in. Just be patient and please stop the disruption. Thank you - wolf 05:12, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Thewolfchild: That page actually contains a motto of the entire Royal Thai Navy, which states that the motto is SAIL (from Seamanship, Allegiance, Integrity, Leadership). But if you go deeper to the page containing the background of the organisation, you'll find that the page says that the organisation started as an Underwater Demolition Team and later changed the name to the present one, Naval Special Warfare Command, Royal Thai Fleet, and is also known as SEAL, which is an acronym for Sea-Air-Land. The name Thai Navy SEAL is what the organisation is commonly referred to in English literature (according to the sources I have provided elsewhere). Even the official Facebook page of the organisation is titled Thai Navy SEAL. --Miwako Sato (talk) 05:29, 6 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: There are various other sources (apart from the SEAL's own website), such as MThai & Zcooby, which say SEAL is from SEa–Air–Land, and none mentions any relationship with the animal seal. So, it is appropriate to capitalize SEAL. --YURi (talk) 02:02, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have restored Miwako Sato's version. The previous claim was cited to an English-Thai dictionary. Simple common sense would tell that a general dictionary would not have contained any material whatsoever supporting the claim. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:28, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

And if anyone bothered to look at the edit history, they'd find that the claim was inserted by an IP vandal back in 2011, who inserted the sentence: "The unit is colloquially known as หน่วยซีล, the Thai language word for Seals as in the pinniped animals." which is of course complete BS. A trout to Thewolfchild for inadvertently defending leftover vandalism from seven years ago. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:33, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You've been around long enough to know why we discuss disputed content instead edit-warring over it. This discussion appears to have lead to a resolution and now hopefully a more stable article. That said... a 'trout', because I didn't go clawing through hundreds of edits, going back seven years, to support an edit that another editor here that is not me wanted sooo much? Oh, puh-leeeze... keep your fish and get over yourself. - wolf 10:41, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Translation of Royal Thai Navy SEALs official websites for history and roles

Is anyone able to translate the history of the unit from the 2010 version at www.sealthailand.com and incorporate the earlier version at www.navy.mi.th/naswu. Also, the role of the unit from www.sealthailand.com and www.navy.mi.th/naswu.--Melbguy05 (talk) 22:59, 25 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]