Talk:USS Mosquito (schooner)

Merge with USS Mosquito (1775)

Acad -

I've been looking at this problem for a few days now. I don't think that there were two different ships with the name USS Mosquito in Continental Service, although I do believe that there was a gunboat named "Mosquito" in one of the state's navies.

Here is the logic for this belief:

1) There is only one entry in DANFS for the Mosquito. It claims the ship was a sloop of 4 guns. At the time the entry in DANFS was put together, the "Naval Documents of the American Revolution" volumes that reference the Mosquito or the engagements she would have been involved in had not been compiled.

2) In all NDAR references to a ship under Albertson's command, Mosquito is referred to as a "schooner." In at least one of these references, she is said to have 4 guns, just like the ship in the DANFS entry by that name. At the time of the captain's seniorities being laid out - when the DANFS Mosquito would have been service - there is only ONE Mosquito listed, and it is in the command of Albertson.

3) Both ships were said to operate on the Delaware and engaged the same ships. Both were involved in operations in the same area, at the same time, with the same people.

4) DANFS claims that the ship destroyed during the British conquest around Philadelphia. There is no record of a ship fitting her description being involved in those operations after the taking and burning of Albertson's ship in July. I think this reference is actually to that action, and that the taking in October is not saying the ship was destroyed in October, rather that the operations concluded about that time. The editors of DANFS probably didn't have these records available, nor the records indicating her destruction in July and therefore believed she was most likely destroyed in these operations with no reason to doubt such.

5) DANFS is not infallible - especially when other records become more readily available with time. In my readings, I have discovered there are some disagreements between DANFS entries and NDAR documents (to include footnotes) which I believe are to be expected. I don't feel the NDAR documents have been available long enough or widely enough to be fully examined either - such as my readings that led me to conclude the acquisition date for the USS Hampden (I discovered a document from Biddle stating he and Hacker in the Fly entered New Haven on the 26th and another that had the delivery of supplies to Hacker in the "Hampton" on the 27th, kind of narrowed it down yet I have yet to find any independent verification.)

Therefore, I believe it is reasonable to assume the following:

1) There was only one ship named "Mosquito" in Colonial service during the war. That ship was commanded by Lt. Albertson. It entered service either near the end of 1775 or the beginning of 1776.

2) While initially identified as a sloop by the editors of DANFS, records that have been brought together since indicate that she was really a schooner armed initially with 4 guns and later with 6.

3) The majority of her active service was on the Delaware, where she was eventually discovered, captured, and burned by the Royal Navy in July 1777 as part of their efforts to eliminate the rebel forces in the area.

I believe that we should do the following, yet also believe it important that you agree with this approach:

1) Merge the ship pages under the USS Mosquito (1775) title. This will remain consistent with other ship pages of the period.

2) Change the ship type to "Schooner" in the ship information box.

3) Leave the summary almost the same, yet change it as follows: "The first USS Mosquito is believed to have been purchased at Philadelphia, late in 1775, for the new Continental Navy. She patrolled the Delaware River until destroyed during the British conquest of Philadelphia led by the Howe brothers in October 1777. DANFS has identified this ship as a sloop, yet records from the period which are believed to refer to the ship have consistently identified her as being a schooner. These records also provide a bit more detail of her fate, indicating she was burned after capture in July 1777 during Royal Navy operations along the Delaware River."

4) In the more detailed body, we change the text to acknowledge the DANFS records as "most likely" referring to the same ship, yet misidentifying her type, with more recently gathered records showing her type consistently as a schooner and providing more details of her fate. We then include the text and references you provided. If needed, we can also reference that NavSource and Silverstone's notations on the Mosquito seem to be identical to the DANFS entry in every respect as before more recent documents were identified, the DANFS entry was the only reliable reference to the existence of the ship at all.

By so doing, we acknowledge the high likelihood that there was only the one ship named "Mosquito" in Continental service while leaving bear the ambiguities as to whether this was true and what type of ship(s) she was in case new evidence comes to light to either support or refute this assumption. This should make the research into the subject matter a little easier and consolidate things all in one place, at least for the moment, while respecting the (I'd say remote) possibility of a second ship with the same name also being used in some fashion. After all, isn't that kind of the advantage that a wiki brings to things? The ability to "compare notes" and collaborate to get at the truth?

Respectfully,

-DN — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beikai (talk • contribs) 19:01, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

Do it

Hi @Beikai:, you make a completely plausible case. Feel free to go ahead and merge the two articles with suitable redirects from the originals. Also, drop the picture from the sloop info box. That is a modern picture that shows Mosquito as a sloop with two masts. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 10:03, 11 June 2019 (UTC)

First Crack at it

Acad @Acad Ronin:, I made an edit to the 1775 page attempting to merge the two pages while still keeping intact the ambiguity that the records leave us with. I also combined the references and added in the 1850 "The navy of the United States, 1775 to 1853" which I think MAY be the source of the identity of the Mosquito as a sloop (pg 1) yet also references Albertson's command of the "Musketo" as a schooner (pg 153). This record is not completely reliable in my opinion as I have noticed other differences with other records, yet I do think it is an important part of the narrative.

I kept the picture in the info box yet updated the caption. Van Powell was portraying the ship based on the best available resources at the time - DANFS - and the compiled collections of NDAR that cover all but the first mentions of the ship were not available to him. Again, part of the ship's narrative and I felt that removing it would only lead to others feeling they discovered something new upon finding the painting and noting the difference. Best to address the discrepancy directly and openly.

I have left the (schooner) page intact in part so that you can review the changes and see if you agree with them prior to removing or disabling this page. I will leave it to you to do final disposition to the schooner page at your discretion. I also would welcome your assistance in improving the page and its flow. I'm not completely satisfied with the way I've presented things and think there may be a better way to do it. I also am a novice at editing such pages and would welcome changes to be more consistent with policy and standard practice that I may not be presently aware of.

Thanks.