Talk:UEFA Euro 2016 statistics

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Removing assists

I think we should remove the assists paragraph completely from this page. There have been numerous discussions on WP:SOCCER about assists, and the consensus is not to include them anywhere. Assists are not clearly defined by most places, and even those rare leagues they are, there are still many ambiguities. The sources don't agree between themselves, as we can see from the recent "Does Kevin De Bruyne have 2 or 3 assists" convo going on between me and Centaur271188. Thoughts? --SuperJew (talk) 21:34, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Also, you can look at the Manual of Style which says "assists columns are against consensus, and should not be included" --SuperJew (talk) 21:38, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I see no reason to exclude them. For at least 10-15 years now they have been a significant and commonly reported statistic for outfield players, alongside apps and goals. Yes, there exists some ambiguity, but that only means that sources shouldn't be mixed. This doesn't apply to a single tournament/competition, where the governing body (or another reliable source like Opta) will provide an assist ranking of all players under the same definition. Prayer for the wild at heart (talk) 22:05, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I'll agree with you that if it is decided to include them, due to the ambiguity, it should be from a single source (preferably the governing body). As you can see here though, when I tried to update according to the source by the governing body, I was reverted claiming another source seems more accurate. So this ambiguity regardless will cause problems. Also it is definitely not such a significant and commonly reported statistic. --SuperJew (talk) 22:10, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

@SuperJew: Assists information is an essential part of football statistics in Wikipedia. I do not know there is a consensus about "not including" it (not mentioning wikitables, we are talking about articles). Actually, I see it is included quite often. The sources do not agree between themselves about some players, perhaps because of slow updating, which is understandable. About player A uefa.com is accurate, about player B it is not (yet). This may sound like a WP:OR, but I verify the sources myself by watching clips and reading reports (definition of 'assist' is not so ambiguous, and the sources generally DO agree about assists information), then I choose the better one. I can guarantee the accuracy of information in "Assists" section, at least for players in dispute recently, like Kevin De Bruyne and Cristiano Ronaldo. Centaur271188 (talk) 22:13, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The definition is very ambiguous. From the wikipage: "Recording assists is not part of the official Laws of the Game and the criteria for an assist to be awarded may vary." Most people will count an assist for the player who passed the ball to the player, however some will also award if the ball rebounded off the goalpost or an opposing player, or some if the player won a free kick/penalty for the scorer to convert. Also once passed, how many touches is the scorer allowed? 1? 2? 3? no limit? As I said, it is all very unclear and ambiguous. And while it is very nice that you verify the source, but that's not how WP:V works. As stated above if assists are included, it should be from one source, preferably the governing body. --SuperJew (talk) 22:23, 27 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

For mine, listing assists is fine if and only if there is an official record of the statistic done by the tournament organiser. However, I definitely don't think it is ok to say "I saw the game and he should have another assist" - the official source must be the be all and the end all. By analogy - goalscorers are listed in the same way (per the official tournament organiser. Some competitions do this in different ways (e.g. by having panels to review who did or didn't score a goal) but we still defer to whatever that competition's organiser declares. Albeit there is more variation in what is or isn't considered an assist than re goals, but not so much as to make it unencyclopedic, in my view, given that it can be reliably sourced in these instances. Macosal (talk) 02:42, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Use the UEFA reference and go after that as they are the organizer and official website. Remove the other one(s). There is no problem including them here. Kante4 (talk) 04:32, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree about using only uefa.com in this case. According to its main statistics page, Kevin De Bruyne has 2 assists, it is OK. However, when you read another UEFA's page, he is not listed.
http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2016/statistics/index.html
http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuro/season=2016/statistics/round=2000448/players/kind=goals/index.html
The latter only shows statistics (goals and assists) for players who have scored. De Bruyne has not scored yet, so he does not appear. If we follow uefa.com exclusively, there will be many more players in dispute, because they have assists but no goal, and we cannot use uefa.com to check their statistics. Centaur271188 (talk) 06:02, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Centaur271188, you are just helping me prove my point :) --SuperJew (talk) 07:34, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so. Did you look at the lists? Centaur is clearly correct that one lists players who have scored (unclear why), the other lists all assistants. But clearly the first is published by UEFA and is a comprehensive list of assists. Macosal (talk) 07:48, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

My point exactly. That the inclusion of assists just leads to more dispute and ambiguity. The fact that UEFA doesn't include players with assists but no goals on their list, just goes to show it's not a significant and commonly reported statistic for outfield players. --SuperJew (talk) 08:23, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I would love to see how you bend my words :) "The fact that UEFA DOES include players with assists (even without goals) on its OTHER list". Have you found any consensus about excluding assists information from articles? :) Centaur271188 (talk) 09:24, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I wouyld like to offer my two cents here. This situation is very similar to 2015–16 UEFA Champions League (and other UEFA Champions League and UEFA Europa League seasons). There assists were not present during the tournament as the governing body did only display assists for those that scored (see Talk:2014–15 UEFA Champions League#Assists), but after the tournament they updated their statistics in history section of the tournament to include all assists ([1]). Now they have been added as the governing body have completed the list. I dont think we should use an other source than UEFA since the definition of assists vary, and we can not use UEFA yet as they dont include all players. In my mind we can wait until after the tournament when UEFA lists all assists. Qed237 (talk) 09:58, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest leaving the section between comment tags and releasing it again once a full list is published. Tracking assists from UEFA's website is too problematic at the minute and we'll probably have a clearer picture after the tournament ends, as Qed237 put it. Davykamanzi → talk • contribs • alter ego 19:46, 28 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think we're able to remove the comment tags now. There's (what seems to me to be) a full list from UEFA now, which includes players who have assists but have not scored a goal (e.g. De Bruyne with 2 assists and 0 goals). Eng736 (talk) 22:59, 10 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

CR7's record?

This article currently contains only statistical data for the matches of Euro 2016 itself, and that data is necessary but largely quite unremarkable. I think it should also contain some information of notable records broken or equalled during the tournament, as well as other notable achievements, landmarks and milestones the tournament will be remembered with. Otherwise, it's odd that a page entitled "UEFA Euro 2016 statistics" should make no mention whatsoever that this was the tournament where Cristiano Ronaldo became the first player to score in four separate European Championships. And if he at least equals Michel Platini's record for most goals in the competition overall – which he still does have the chance to do – would that not make it to the article either? I think such facts are clearly relevant to the article, and would make it more interesting. --Theurgist (talk) 13:46, 5 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]