Talk:Trans woman

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Frequently asked questions

This section is here to provide answers to some questions that have been previously discussed on this talk page.

Note: This FAQ is only here to let people know that these points have previously been addressed, not to prevent any further discussion of these issues.

Q1: Why does the article define trans woman the way that it does?

A1: The definition is the result of a 2022 Request for Comment (RfC) located at Talk:Trans woman/Archive 10#RfC on first sentence (itself subsequent to a 2018 RfC located at Talk:Trans woman/Archive 4#RfC on introduction). In both RfCs, there was no consensus as to which option was preferable; in the absence of affirmative consensus, the pre-existing text remained in place both times. Wikipedia content, including that decided on by RfCs, should be based on the due weight of reliable sources. Such sources are being collected at Talk:Trans woman/Definitions; anyone is welcome to contribute definitions there for future reference.

Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated, especially about Neutral point of view, Wording of lede and Contradicts the articles woman and female. Please read recent comments, look in the archives, and review the FAQ before commenting on that topic, and read through the list of highlighted discussions below before starting a new one:

Restarting a debate that has already been settled constitutes disruptive editing, tendentious editing, and "asking the other parent", unless consensus changes.

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This article should adhere to the gender identity guideline because it contains material about one or more trans women. Precedence should be given to self-designation as reported in the most up-to-date reliable sources, anywhere in article space, even when it doesn't match what's most common in reliable sources. Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example "man/woman", "waiter/waitress", "chairman/chairwoman") that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. Some people go by singular they pronouns, which are acceptable for use in articles. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. Former, pre-transition names may only be included if the person was notable while using the name; outside of the main biographical article, such names should only appear once, in a footnote or parentheses.

If material violating this guideline is repeatedly inserted, or if there are other related issues, please report the issue to the LGBTQ+ WikiProject, or, in the case of living people, to the BLP noticeboard.

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You must be logged-in to an autoconfirmed or confirmed account (usually granted automatically to accounts with 10 edits and an age of 4 days)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Semi-protected edit request on 20 November 2023

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Hello, I'm writing to tell you that a mistake has been made in this article. You should change it from "A trans woman is a woman" to "A trans woman is a person who identifies as a woman" because of the following reasons:

1. Saying this confuses the reader into thinking that a trans woman is actually a biological female. 2. This is leftist ideology newspeak.

Back to the first point, a woman or male is determined by genetical markers in the 23rd chromosome pair which are XX and XY for female and male respectively. This is common biological knowledge and a source can be looked upon anywhere, including every encyclopedia that exists. 78.60.112.253 (talk) 21:44, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: The current wording is the result of extensive discussion, during which a great many sources were evaluated. Please see the discussion archives linked in one of the yellow boxes near the top of this page. -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 21:47, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:DNFTT. Isabelle Belato ^🏳‍🌈 11:51, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We insist:

A trans woman is not an "adult human female".

Change it. 90.167.86.20 (talk) 10:53, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can insist all you like, but the wording comes after careful discussion and consensus – not demands. — Czello ^(music) 10:57, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The consensus of a few doesn't make it true.

The statement is false and contradicts the definition of "woman" - which is linked to this article. 90.167.86.20 (talk) 11:27, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus building is how Wikipedia works. As you're using words like "true" and "false", I'd urge you to read WP:TRUTH. — Czello ^(music) 11:33, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Verify this for me:

How a female can be a male.

How two wiki entrances can be verified and in contradiction with each other, at the same time. 90.167.86.20 (talk) 11:44, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This isn't a debating forum – we go by what reliable sources say. — Czello ^(music) 11:45, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No. We don't have to take this nonsense seriously at Wikipedia. Get out of here. LesbianTiamat (talk) 02:00, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

In the last paragraph of 'Terminology' change "The term has historically been applies to people..." to "The term has historically been applied to people..." PolyCloud (talk) 05:08, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Thanks. Grayfell (talk) 05:26, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Definition is Flawed

WP:NPA, WP:NOTFORUM

The point being made by previous attempts to improve this article is that the article linked to the word "woman" defines that word as "adult human female." The definition of "trans woman" is therefore not only circular, it's illogical as it also requires that a trans woman is "assigned male at birth." The definition cannot require that they're both male and female as that would make them literally hermaphroditic (a biological impossibility in mammals), which is both an incorrect definition of what trans women essentially are and is statistically inconsistent with reality. Conversely, it also inherently and unequivocally (and correctly) implies that trans women can't have been conceived and born female which further bolsters the point that the definition in the linked article of "woman" is contradictory.

Furthermore, the usage of the phrase "assigned at birth" implies both ambiguity and discretion (on the part of medical staff) at birth when sex is determined by the sperm at the moment of conception. This article is based on a poorly written definition that fails the most basic linguistic and scientific standards used in any other context. More alarmingly, the article fails to even remotely acknowledge, let alone address, the lack of real consensus that this very discussion should represent. In nearly any other context, but especially one regarding the definition of a word in which a subgroup of an essentially excluded group (in this case, "men") can now be included, there would be a "Definition Controversy" section but this article conspicuously lacks that.

A better definition is: "a trans woman is a man who identifies as, or whose gender identity aligns with that of, a woman." This definition is not only succinct, it doesn't contradict itself. It also doesn't compromise the definition of "woman," which must remain intact in order for the term and identity of "trans woman" to have any subsequent meaning as it contains the word in it. Tpetross (talk) 04:32, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We don't go by what editors' personal analyses conclude. We go by what reliable sources say. And they do not say "a trans woman is a man who identifies as, or whose gender identity aligns with that of, a woman". EvergreenFir (talk) 04:39, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]