Talk:Cigarette Smoking Man

Real cigarettes

> For the first two episodes he appeared in, he smoked "real" cigarettes, but later changed to herbal cigarettes

What are "real" cigarettes? Are they real, or not? What are quotation marks supposed to imply here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.65.218.105 (talk) 01:41, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

I would say those containing tobacco and thus nicotine, as opposed to herbal cigarettes, which do not include the before mentioned. The burning process however still produces tar and possibly other substances, which are inhaled and which thus represent a considerable health risk. lmaxmai (talk) 18:59, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

By the way, in the interview with "The Scifi World", Mr. Davis states that smoking "real" cigarettes is dangerous to him, not dangerous "to his health", as this article states. While this of course goes without saying, he might have referred to the danger of becoming addicted again. lmaxmai (talk) 19:10, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Musings of a Cigarette Smoking Man

Aren't the producers on record as saying that this episode is not necessarily the real history of CGB Spender? A quote from Frank Spotnitz on the article for the episode says:

Story editor Frank Spotnitz said "In the closing scene Frohike tells Mulder and Scully that the whole story was something he read in a crummy magazine. A lot of people didn't pick up on that subtlety. They thought that this was indeed the factual history of the CSM. As far as I'm concerned, it's not. Some of it may indeed be true, and some of it may - well, never mind."

I know that this article later states that the veracity of the episode is not confirmed, but sentences that state "Much of his background is revealed in the fourth season episode "Musings of a Cigarette Smoking Man,"", would probably read better with "purportedly" inserted so I have done so 91.188.53.90 (talk) 16:55, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

Spoiler: CSM is Mulder's Father. Not in article?

This article does not state that the Cigarette Smoking Man is Mulder's father. I think that it should. Specifically, I think that "Fox Mulder (Estranged Son)" should be listed along with Jeffery Spender in the "Family" section.

It was confirmed in 9x16 that CSM's father. Jeffery Spender states it, as does Scully, and it's confirmed by DNA evidence.

I know it's a spoiler, but Wiki's policy is to include all info, even spoilers: Wikipedia:Spoiler_warning. This is an important piece of information about CSM, his family, and his motivations. It should be included in the article.

I will ask around for other opinions, but if no-one objects, I will add it later this month (May, 2010).

121.127.212.46 (talk) 13:34, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

ETA: Whoops! Wasn't signed in when I posted. So, this post was by me. Lex Kitten (talk) 13:49, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Sounds fine to me. Quiddity99 (talk) 20:26, 8 May 2010 (UTC)Quiddity99

Done. Hope this is ok with everyone. =) Lex Kitten (talk) 13:19, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Whoa!?!? Spoiler warning?

I don't know what wikipedia's policy is concerning spoilers and stuff, but I just got done watching season 3 and got a bad bad bad spoiler in the second sentence. Maybe we could at least move sensitive info a little bit further down? 79.138.218.108 (talk) 13:05, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree with you. This article was a major spoiler for me. Just started watching the series. I think somebody should add a warning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.128.186.143 (talk) 01:02, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

WP:SPOILERS. Don't research the plot of something you're not done watching, it'll only ever lead to disappointment. On the bright side, it's actually not that big of a deal within the series. It's not even the most important part of the episode it pops up in. GRAPPLE X 01:06, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

Massive chunk

A massive chunk of this page was copied from this website [1]. I reverted to an older version.

You reverted too much. You deleted some things that I wrote myself without even referring to Keleka's site. Some things from that site were copied, yes (by others and not me), but I have an email from the site's maintainer saying that texts can be used. Although the sections that were copied verbatim were not entirely appropriate for the article. Still, some of the removed text would have to be restored. Solver 16:54, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I restored it. Now stop cutting out my contributions. Simon Beavis 7 February 2006

Would you maybe consider rewriting the "Why Mulder?" section a bit. In my opinion, some of the phrasing is a bit inappropriate for article style. Solver 18:50, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Original reverter here. I realize that reverting the page deletes some of the more recent edits, but I was following the policies outlined here[2]. I restored it to the last version before all the copied material was added. If you want to preserve your own changes, you should add them again to this version. Note: copyrights are held by the original author, not the website's current maintainer. If you really want to use that fan page's text verbatim, you will need to track down this person and get them to email Wikipedia about it.

---

Surely C.G.B. Spender is just an alias? Lee M 10:29, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)

---

Actually, his real name is Crow Gibson Bill Spender. It was mentioned in an interview over the discussion of real-time alien technology and was possible that this is a fan-fiction name. Anyway, this does seem to be a plausible name, consideing that his name does correspond to the little more than conincidental connection between him and Bill Mulder. Other than that, this is all pure speculation into an alias of the CSM guy that happens to be the key in this magnificient series.

---

C.G.B. Spender is the closest thing to his real name - of course it's not a full name since CGB can hardly count as full. However, nothing more full than C.G.B. Spender was ever seen in canon - whatever else there might have been is purely fanfiction. Solver 19:57, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. Mr.Fouchon 20:16, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

New quotes section

I have taken the liberty of setting up a new CSM quotes section in the article. Please feel free to improve it and contribute to it. I trust that its place is here and not in a Wikiquote article. If anyone disagrees, please advise.

The quotes section is now quite large. i think they should be moved to wikiquote, like the mulder article. Cthulhu spawn 20:02, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Canon

This part seems like speculation at best, there is nothing to indicate that "musings.." wasnt canon. If no one complains I will remove it. - "This episode presents a relatively sympathetic, sad portrait of the character, although it is arguable if the info presented is canon."

The episode also contains a deliberate contradiction to a previous episode. In a flashback depicted in Apocrypha, CSM is shown to have already been working for the government, along with Bill Mulder, as early as 1953. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.185.21.9 (talk) 15:47, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

E. Howard Hunt

There is a lot more than a passing resemblance, especially in re: Musings. This should be expanded upon by someone more knowledgable in both conspiracy theory and known history.

Cultural Influences

how about Mitchell_Webell_III -- take a read here, this in itself is almost the plot of a backstory X files episode: [3] - KenChasse (talk) 16:17, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Name of Article

I just watched several episodes of "The X-Files"; at no point do they refer to him as the "Cigarette Smoking Man." They just call him "the Smoking Man" or refer to his "Spender" alias. Minaker (talk) 07:36, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

While it's true that he wasn't referred to onscreen as the "Cigarette Smoking Man" until the sixth season (by Scully in "Two Fathers"), long after being referred to as Cancer Man, Smoking Man, Cigarette Man, and Old Smokey, he was referred to by that name (or the CSM acronym) in scripts and by the cast and crew beginning with the pilot. "Cancer Man" was invented by the fans, spread amongst message boards and then picked up by the show, to be used occassionally. "Smoking Man," "Smokey," and "Old Smokey" were all shortened or jocular variations of the CSM moniker. "C.G.B. Spender" was derived as a way to state to the characters that he was the already established Jeffrey Spender's father. It was specifically stated that it might be "one of hundreds" of aliases (although, outside Musings, we haven't seen any other ones).--Tim Thomason 21:02, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

His name is C.G.B. Spender it says so in the episodes. The article name really should be changed to C.G.B. Spender. 193.195.195.56 (talk) 15:37, 5 February 2009 (UTC)

Musings aside, in the first season (at least) he is referred to as Smoking Man in the credits. As I do not have any later seasons I can't confirm his later credit listings, but I think the credits would constitute somewhat of an authoritative source (granted, this is technically original research... *shrug*). -- Mpdimitroff (talk) 07:32, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Was "Cancer Man" really invented by fans? Mulder uses it at approximately 22:17 of the episode One Breath (Season 2, Episode 8). 150.203.110.172 (talk) 11:33, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Given how attuned the writers were to the fan community, it wouldn't surprise me if they added a 'canon' use of a fan-coined term like that. GRAPPLE X 12:31, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Cigarette Smoking Man/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Hello. Overall, I think this article is a solid start towards good article status. However there are a few issues.

•  Done First off the lead section does not adequately summarize the entire article per WP:LEAD.
•  Done More of an issue, as hinted at in the lead, is that the article has an awkward blend of in-and-out-of-universe phrasing, for example: "The Smoking Man was born on or around August 20, 1940, in Baton Rouge, Louisiana" treats the character like a real person, but then it switches to an out-of-universe treatment with "In the Smoking Man's first appearance, he oversaw Dana Scully's debriefing and disposed of her evidence in the show's pilot episode, and eventually developed into the series' primary antagonist". Per WP:WAF, it should all be recast in an out-of-universe treatment.
•  Done Confusing passages: "In at least one early script draft from the "Pilot", a Special Agent named Lake Drazen is present at the meeting near the start of the episode, having chosen Dana Scully (Gillian Anderson) for an assignment to evaluate the validity of Fox Mulder's (David Duchovny) work on the X-Files. Drazen's final scene on the episode suggests that he became the Cigarette Smoking Man". I'm confused. So this Drazen character never appeared in the final product? How did he become the Cigarette Smoking Man if the Cigarette Smoking man is in the same episode throughout?
•  Done There appears to be excessive wikilinking throughout; junk links like scene, evil, and villain should go as they lessen the impact of more relevant links.
•  Done The entire last paragraph of "Conceptual history" is unreferecned.
• Finally, I think the article needs some reworking to become more accessible to non-X-Files fans. Give more description as to who characters and and some introduction to the premise.

And how can i do that? I don't understand the problem? --TIAYN (talk) 04:14, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has never heard of the X-Files or seen an episode. For example:

 Done"The "Cigarette Smoking Man" (often referred to as "Cancer Man") is a fictional character on the American science fiction television series The X-Files, played by William B. Davis. He served as the arch-nemesis of FBI Special Agent Fox Mulder, and was later revealed to be Mulder's father. Although it was revealed late in the show that he once answered to the name C.G.B. Spender, fans continued to refer to him as the "Cigarette Smoking Man" because he was almost always seen chain-smoking Morley cigarettes and because he, like other series villains, had multiple aliases." - ok, it explains who he is, that the X-Files is a television series, he's the archnemesis of the FBI guy Mulder. Second paragraph: "His silent presence in Walter Skinner's office early on was always a warning that the shadowy government was again keeping an eye on the nonconformist agent. The Smoking Man oversaw Dana Scully's initial briefing on her assignment to the X-Files to debunk the work of Mulder, as well as her debriefing. Throughout the series, he continued to obfuscate and attempt to hide the truth about various government secrets, often using brutal means to achieve his goals. He was killed by a missile fired from a helicopter on the orders of super-soldier Knowle Rohrer." Who is Walter Skinner? Dana Scully? "shadowy government" links to the Syndicate, and doesn't tell me much without navigating away from the page. Is knowing about Rohrer that important in the lead? He needs more introduction in the body. Things like that. Martin Raybourne (talk) 19:28, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

--Martin Raybourne (talk) 22:35, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Comment

•  Done The grammar in the lead needs to be cleaned up. Done

Did another clean up.

•  Done Anything related to the plot needs to be in present tense.

Most of the character arc section is still in past tense. Ophois (talk) 18:26, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

•  Done As well, the conceptual history doesn't really seem to give much development info on the character past the first season or so. It's mainly CSM characterization and praise for Davis' acting. I don't know how much info is available though, so it may suffice.

I'm pretty sure their is no more information, but i can see if i can dig up some more. --TIAYN (talk) 15:26, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Ophois (talk) 13:36, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

•  Done The sentence "His confidence in Spender fails after a failed assassination attempt and later on his betrayal, he confronts his son and apparently kills him." is confusing. Ophois (talk) 18:26, 11 October 2009 (UTC)

Ophois, do you have any other concerns? Martin Raybourne (talk) 18:39, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, there are still some grammatical issues. As well, the reception section could be improved with some more critical opinions of the character. Ophois (talk) 19:40, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Their are not many critical opinion to find, serious, most of it must have been shelved some where, but i don't know where that is! All i'm trying to say is, if i could find reviews or comments about his character, i would have included them. But i'll take another look for you Ophois. --TIAYN (talk) 19:55, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Found some, all of them from Entertainment Weekly, but some is better than none right? --TIAYN (talk) 20:46, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, it should be fine. Ophois (talk) 22:55, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

I think you should change Conceptual History to Development, and add a section on Characterization. A lot of stuff is in improper places in the article. Ophois (talk) 17:30, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Changed it to development, but their is not Characterization information in the article, with the exception of fan reaction towards him, etc is he evil or nice. --TIAYN (talk) 14:28, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Which would be characterization. As well, there is a comment by Kim Manners comparing him to Darth Vader. Ophois (talk) 14:59, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Well that can also be seen as development and fan reaction. It fits as both. So its redundant to create another section for it. Actually, their is no need to. Fan reaction fits bette rin the reception section and the "Darth Vader" commented is directly tide into the creation og the character. --TIAYN (talk) 15:49, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Him being the series' Darth Vader isn't development. And the other stuff is not really fan reaction, it's characteristics that fans feel the character has. Whether a fan feels he is good or evil doesn't have to do with whether they like him on the show or not. Ophois (talk) 15:50, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Done. --TIAYN (talk) 16:33, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Nicely done, IMO. A few nitpicks for those sections still, but I'll take care of them. Ophois (talk) 16:44, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

You should try to find a couple more positive critical reviews of the character. Ophois (talk) 17:38, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

If their were more reviews available, i would fine them. Try for yourself, but i've tried over a month now finding reception information, and seriously, this is all i could find. --TIAYN (talk) 17:44, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

I give my support, although I think the final decision is up to user Martin Raybourne. Ophois (talk) 17:56, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for improving the article on your spare time. ;) --TIAYN (talk) 18:02, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

• There's still an issue with in-universe content, specifically the first two paragraphs of the character arc. Martin Raybourne (talk) 21:53, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

That actually reminds me... everything in the plot section needs to be cited to the individual episodes. Done Ophois (talk) 22:07, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

Also, some stuff in the plot needs explanation. Who is Diana Fowley, and why was the Syndicate at risk of being destroyed? Why did he kill his son Jeffrey? What does Fowley disagree with him over that leads to her death? Look at the section as if you have never seen the show. What would a reader not understand? Done Ophois (talk) 15:23, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

 Done There's some places where I believe you are referring to the CSM as "he", but due to construction this needs to be made explicit (I've left hidden comment tags). Martin Raybourne (talk) 17:48, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Also, in the first paragraph of character arc, it says he destroyed evidence. Evidence of what? Also try to expand on who Mulder and Scully are, as Mulder is strongly related to CSM's story at times. Done Ophois (talk) 18:07, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

It still doesn't explain it. Evidence of what? Mulder and Scully have many cases throughout the series. What is important about that evidence that would make CSM want to destroy it? Ophois (talk) 15:34, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Never mentioned... By all means its not that notable for the "Cigarette Smoking Man's" character bio.. Maybe its best to remove it? It is never referrenced again in the series and why he did it! I'll remove it. --TIAYN (talk) 16:01, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

I haven't seen that episode in a very long time, but was it connected to aliens or something? Doesn't have to be detailed, just what motivation did he have? Ophois (talk) 16:05, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Never mind. I fixed it. Ophois (talk) 16:09, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Fixed it, to hide the truth of alien existence. Not a good answear, but their does not seem to be anything better. --TIAYN (talk) 16:12, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Ok, the prose is up to an acceptable standard, so I will pass the article. Good work, Martin Raybourne (talk) 00:39, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Punctuation style

Mass (though not even internally consistent) use of "aesthetic" quotemarks on this page -- which I can't edit, due to semi-protection. Would some fellow style fanatic care to edit this in line with WP:LQ? (Or unprotect, so that I can.) 84.203.34.55 (talk) 16:06, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

I've addressed any glaring LQ issues I saw, didn't look to see which quote marks were considered "aesthetic" or not but I pulled punctuation to the outside each time. Page protection expires in two days (was recently protected over recurring vandalism by an IP), so if I've missed anything you'll be able to step in soon; or just let me know if there's anything else in the meantime. GRAPPLE X 18:08, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the information, and the edit! I'd offer the small modification that lengthy/complete quotes from a particular sources, such as "If people were to know of the things that I know...it would all fall apart." should retain the punctuation inside the quotes (I think there was one such), but your edits to the various episode titles were all correct, I believe. 84.203.34.55 (talk) 05:39, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Disambiguation?

While there are, obviously, many men who smoke in fiction, the other person likely to be referred to as "the Cigarette-Smoking Man" (since his name is not revealed and that is his most obvious distinguishing feature) is the one in The Penultimate Peril. 2.25.130.29 (talk) 22:18, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Is he referred to simply as "The Smoking Man" in those books? If so then this could become a disambiguation if an article was ever created for that character, though I'd argue that this article covers a far more recognised figure and would say a simple hatnote ("For the character from The Penultimate Peril, see ..."). GRAPPLE X 22:37, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Request for Comments

There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.

The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person#RfC: Religion infobox entries for individuals that have no religion.

Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 17:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

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Requested move 3 February 2016

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved to Cigarette Smoking Man. wbm1058 (talk) 19:01, 27 February 2016 (UTC)

---

The Smoking Man → Cigarette Smoking Man – WP:COMMONNAME and reasons below Drovethrughosts (talk) 18:55, 3 February 2016 (UTC) I know this is an old topic, but since I've been rewatching The X-Files lately, including watching beind-the-scenes featurettes, interview, commentaries, etc. it's hard to wonder why this article isn't titled Cigarette-Smoking Man. I would say, from everything I've watched, he's refereed to as that or "CSM" 99% of the time by cast and crew, and is identified as "Cigarette-Smoking Man" in various sources including a profile of his character from the DVDs ([4]). The press release for an upcoming episode of the revival bills him as "Cigarette Smoking Man" ([5]). When comparing Google searches of the exact phrase, its 85,600 for "The Smoking Man" and 210,000 for "Cigarette-Smoking Man". He's listed as "Cigarette-Smoking Man" in a recap for "The End" from an archived version of the official website ([6]). While both "The Smoking Man" and "Cigarette-Smoking Man" are the most common and "official" names, I believe CSM is much more appropriate and per WP:COMMONNAME, makes more sense. Thoughts? Pinging relevant, active X-Files editors: Trust Is All You Need, Grapple X, Gen. Quon. Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:49, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

@Drovethrughosts: I don't remember who moved it. But it was formerly titled Cigarette Smoking Man.. I agree with you 100% --TIAYN (talk) 15:31, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

It was "Smoking Man" before I got here. Honestly, "Cigarette-Smoking Man" makes more sense to me.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 18:24, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

• Comment the common name is Cancer Man -- 70.51.200.135 (talk) 05:13, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

"Cancer Man" is definitely not the more common name than "Cigarette-Smoking Man" for this character. More examples I've come across recently, the back cover of one of the season Blu-rays refers to him as Cigarette-Smoking Man, he's billed with that name in the end credits of the The X-Files film, he's listed with that name on William B. Davis' official website, and of course there's the episode named after him: Musings of a Cigarette Smoking Man. The article was moved on December 15, 2009, by Minaker, who cited the above discussion as the reason for it. Drovethrughosts (talk) 14:40, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

• Support Cigarette Smoking Man with no punctuation, per the episode title "Musings of a Cigarette Smoking Man". I would also support the hyphenated version of CSM over "The Smoking Man".  ONR  (talk)  21:49, 5 February 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Old Naval Rooftops (talk • contribs)
• It appears there's lots of support for this change, now the silly debate of whether we hyphenate it or not. Regarding "Musings of a Cigarette Smoking Man", there is also official sources that have the hyphen, I believe the DVDs use it (I sold my set, but could someone check?) but I know the season 4 Blu-ray uses the hyphen for the episode title. We should compare as many official sources as possible regarding if the hyphen if used or not. I've provided several examples above for both options. Drovethrughosts (talk) 12:52, 6 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support Cigarette Smoking Man. I wouldn't have thought this, but a Google books search even for "Smoking Man" X-files shows that "Cigarette Smoking Man" is more common. Sources use the hyphen inconsistently, so it's simpler to avoid it here.--Cúchullain ^t/c 15:07, 11 February 2016 (UTC)
• Support Cigarette Smoking Man, no hyphen. Life is like a box of choc-o-lates, with cigarettes. Randy Kryn 21:28, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Continuity error regarding when he started smoking

The article claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald introduced Smoking Man to cigarettes. However, a flashback in episode 3X16 shows him smoking in 1953. 98.234.13.133 (talk) 20:10, 6 April 2023 (UTC)