Talk:The Second Maiden's Tragedy

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gabycrodriguezz, ERASINGURPOSTS, Allymorales98. Peer reviewers: Mtemaat, Gbone42, Lorenx17.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 11:10, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Upstream Theater Production

According to Thomas Middleton: The Complete Works (Oxford University Press, 2007), pg. 835, the 1984 Upstream Theater production was actually titled The Tyrant's Tragedy (not The Tyrant). (A Google search for "The Tyrant's Tragedy" will turn up the Google Books result.) I have also been unable to find any reference to a lost play by Middleton called The Tyrant. Anyone have further elucidation on this? Justin Bacon (talk) 21:36, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Figured it out. The original article cited the 1978 edition of the play by Anne Lancashire. A Google Books search through that volume revealed that the lost text known as "The Tyrant" was actually written by Massinger, not Middleton. I'll edit the article to accurately reflect all of this. Justin Bacon (talk) 21:44, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

This article is lacking some organization, or fails to follow the outline of the article. For example, the portion in the “title” section contains a sentence about the play receiving “modern revivals”, which is not related to the title of Second Maiden’s Tragedy. If it were to remain in the article, I think it would fit best in the opening section of the article, because perhaps these revivals are where people know this play from. I think Shakespeare could be an important part of the origin of The Second Maiden’s Tragedy in regards to inspiration. However, I do not think that Shakespeare’s play Cardenio and the debate of authorship is important enough to have its own section, since in this section it states that this debate is not accredited and there is little argument of authorship now. It is possible that these statements are wrong, in which case the Shakespeare/Authorship section should have more information added to it rather than deleted. Research on this would be needed. I also do not think that the entire list of characters in the play is necessary. I would delete the minor characters in the list such as “four soldiers” or “servants to Govianus” because they are not relevant to the play as a whole. I also am unsure if a character list is truly needed. I also think perhaps more history of the play and the era it was written in would be beneficial as it would add context and more meaning to the significance of this play. Allymorales98 (talk) 22:22, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

I stated that some research needed to be done to address the context of the play. I also believe that adding themes to the play would be helpful to the article as well. Here are some sources that might be helpful in this research

Anne Lancashire. “The Second Maiden's Tragedy: A Jacobean Saint's Life.” The Review of English Studies, vol. 25, no. 99, 1974, pp. 267–279. New Series, www.jstor.org/stable/514013.

DREW-BEAR, ANNETTE. “Face-Painting in Renaissance Tragedy.” Renaissance Drama, vol. 12, 1981, pp. 71–93. New Series, www.jstor.org/stable/41917192.

Rasmussen, Eric. “Shakespeare's Hand in ‘The Second Maiden's Tragedy.’” Shakespeare Quarterly, vol. 40, no. 1, 1989, pp. 1–26. www.jstor.org/stable/2870751. Allymorales98 (talk) 22:29, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

This Wikipedia page fails to give any recognition to any of the major themes in the play. For example, necrophilia when the Tyrant was planning on having sex with the dead body of the Lady. Face painting could be seen as a sense of life in the text because the Tyrant had the Lady’s face painted so she would seem more alive. Also loyalty and trust are big issues in many of the relationships throughout the play and this could be extended using Anselmus’ wife. Adding a section addressing the major themes of the play would be beneficial for analysis on the play. The play also consisted of instances of political commentary and aligned with real time events during the time period. Such as when the Tyrant chokes and dies from poison this could be a reference to the death of Henry IV. Perhaps the play had instances of political motives that were masked with actions in the play. These could all be discussed within their own respective sections. ERASINGURPOSTS (talk) 16:37, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Here are some sources that could potentially be helpful according to my research

-Barker, Richard H. “The authorship of the ‘Second Maiden’s Tragedy’ and ‘The Revenger’s Tragedy.” The Shakespeare Association Bulletin, vol. 20, no. 2, 1945, pp. 51–62.

-Brodwin, Leonora Leet. “Authorship of ‘The Second Maiden's Tragedy’: A Reconsideration of the Manuscript Attribution to Chapman.” Studies in Philology, vol. 63, no. 1, 1966, pp. 51–77.

-ZIMMERMAN, SUSAN. “Animating Matter: The Corpse as Idol in ‘The Second Maiden's Tragedy.’” Renaissance Drama, vol. 31, 2002, pp. 215–243. ERASINGURPOSTS (talk) 16:37, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

After I first read this article, I noticed that it mainly contains summaries of each act and scene. I noticed that it was also missing information about themes as well as information about the context of the play. However, I decided that I would focus on is the plot and the subplot of the story. I decided to include some information pertaining to this, because understanding that there are two different stories occurring is essential to recognizing the story. I found that according to prior research and analysis of the play, the play’s subplot contains themes that are based off of the story of Don Quixote by Miguel de Cervantes. I decided to include information on this so that the reader understands some of the inspiration behind the relationships between characters in the play. I also decided to compare and contrast the two plots so that the reader is able to understand the difference between the two stories. Gabycrodriguezz (talk) 16:43, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Here are some of the resources that I used when editing the page:

Spencer, Christopher. “Review.” Comparative Drama, vol. 13, no. 24, Winter 1979-80, pp. 366-367

Levin, Richard. “The Double Plot of The Second Maiden's Tragedy.” Studies in English Literature, 1500-1900, vol. 3, no. 2, Spring 1963, pp. 219–231.

Bergeron, David M. “Art Within ‘The Second Maiden's Tragedy.’” Medieval & Renaissance Drama in England, vol. 1, 1984, pp. 173–186. Gabycrodriguezz (talk) 16:43, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

Here is the information i updated the page with

Throughout the Second Maiden's Tragedy there are many prominent themes. Necrophilia was brought up when the Tyrant wanted to have sex with the dead body of the Lady whom he was trying to preserve, this could be viewed as attachment. The Tyrant was fascinated with the Lady’s beauty and after she killed herself to escape his grasp this was the only way he could feel satisfied. She would not grant him access to her body throughout the first act of the play when the Tyrant asked her to marry him. By refusing the requests of his authority she was then placed under house arrest only furthering tensions between the Tyrant and the Lady. The Tyrant also made attempts to take the Lady to bed with him which were unsuccessful. This fascination would lead to his death at the end of the play. The Lady shows great sense of pride in upholding her morals throughout the play. “The Lady resists temptation […] the Lady is free from taint […] and the Lady meets her death with noble conviction” (68). This is holding herself to a high standard which in turn makes her body more desirable by the Tyrant. The Female corpse can be seen as a prominent theme in The Second Maiden’s Tragedy because it was the center of attention after the Lady’s death. Face Painting could be seen as a sense of life because the Tyrant uses face paint so the corpse of the Lady would seem more alive. This relates back to his original plan of using the body for necrophilia, as he was trying to make the body lifelike again. The female body could be seen as an erotic figure because sexual attractiveness and deadness can become indistinguishable (223). This scene in the play could have been used to spark voyeuristic interests from the audience. Using the female body as an object of infatuation would allow the Tyrants ambitions to be shown after the climax of the play. The female body of the Wife also caused problems within the play and controversially led to the climax of the play. The Wife kills Votarius after he tried seducing her after he fell in love with her unexpectedly. Anselmus was pleased to see her faithfulness so he killed Leonella who accused the Wife of being unfaithful. However, this action causes the Wife’s death in a sword fight between Anselmus and Bellarius. Female action sparked men’s motives to be brought forth which caused this bloody scene. Loyalty and trust are also important because many relationships throughout the play were questioned just like Anselmus' wife. Votarius’ wife had proven her love for him and Anselmus showed doubts about his wife’s. This sent the characters into disarray when Votarius actually fell in love with Anselmus’ wife who had shown her nonexistent loyalty to Anselmus. This loyalty stunt could be seen as ironic to the genre of the play which is a tragedy. This play “concerns characters who are fundamentally blind, who fail to understand the world in which they live, who insist on undoing themselves” (53). However, in this instance the action and feeling of falling in love could not be undone and it turns into disastrous consequences. Chaste within this text is symbolic because the female body is seen as an idol and being unfaithful outside of the marriage would be a big deal. For the male characters in the text such as the Tyrant having sex with multiple people wasn’t a problem because he had a lot of power. If a woman did this there could be varying consequences though because of their husbands. Another thing that is interesting is the disconnection between body and spirit. When the Lady died it was clear that her corpse was without spirit since her spirit sought after the rescue of the maternal body from the Tyrant. It can be argued that “the figure of the Lady is divided into three personae that are ultimately irreconcilable” (227). These can be classified as her living body, her desecrated corpse, and her sainted spirit. Each of these played a role in deceiving the Tyrant and making him look like a bad character. Even though the play may demonize the Tyrant as a monster, the presumed forces of virtue ultimately prove complicit in his transgression (227). These can all be interrelated in The Second Maiden’s Tragedy as the play had many connecting events and themes. ERASINGURPOSTS (talk) 23:45, 4 December 2016 (UTC) I updated the original page and these are the sources I used when adding that information

Brodwin, Leonora Leet. “Authorship of ‘The Second Maiden's Tragedy’: A Reconsideration of

        the Manuscript Attribution to Chapman.” Studies in Philology, vol. 63, no. 1, 1966, pp. 51–77.

ZIMMERMAN, SUSAN. “Animating Matter: The Corpse as Idol in ‘The Second Maiden's Tragedy.’” Renaissance Drama, vol.31, 2002, pp. 215–243.

Barker, Richard H. “The authorship of the ‘Second Maiden’s Tragedy’ and ‘The Revenger’s

        Tragedy.” The Shakespeare Association Bulletin, vol. 20, no. 2, 1945, pp. 51–62. 

ERASINGURPOSTS (talk) 23:43, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

I added information pertaining to the printing of the story in order to add to the background of the story. I also deleted the act synopses and replaced them with a short paragraph that highlights the main points of the play. I decided to do this, because I felt that the act synopses were unnecessary. Gabycrodriguezz (talk) 23:38, 5 December 2016 (UTC)

I mentioned that the Wikipedia article would benefit from an addition regarding major themes of the play as well as influences. I added to the major themes section that was created as a result, specifically the theme regarding face painting. I also did research using my suggested sources from above and added a section of major influences that impacted the play. I also researched the controversy of authorship and added information that reflected my research and how Shakespeare could have contributed to the authorship of the play. Finally, I cut some of the characters that appeared on the character list and left only the major characters. I also moved the information about the production of the play and added it to the beginning of the article. The article could still possibly use more information on the major influences and theme section. Allymorales98 (talk) 23:19, 7 December 2016 (UTC)